Diablo® III

Demon Hunter eDPS (effective DPS) Issue

04/08/2013 09:54 AMPosted by Technoviking
Give me areason why we shouldn't have similar kill times? Barbs and Monks and Wizards have similar kill times, does that make them not diverse or does it make impossible to differentiate the classes. Your argument is weak, very weak. And if Blizzard didn't think class balance was important/necessary Monks would not have got any buffs to spirit spenders in the last path.


there are other class subtleties to consider. DH has similar killtimes except for high end mp10 play imo. DH are arguably the 2nd fastest paragon levelers. DH have amazing aoe clearing skills and good group buffs. What are you basing your argument on? solely mp10 elite kill speeds? not every class should have the exact kill speeds. IF some classes kill say 15 seconds faster, then sobeit! roll one of every class and experience them all. whats so hard here?

I have rolled the other classes but I want to play as a demon hunter, demon hunters aren't the fastest paragon levelers anymore. why? with the new xp bonuses Monks, Barbs and Wizards can clear the harder content with the best bonuses faster. If Monks and Wizards didn't get buffed I could see your point, but they did which indicates to me that Blizzard does want classes to have close performance.
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04/08/2013 10:03 AMPosted by RUNFORIT


there are other class subtleties to consider. DH has similar killtimes except for high end mp10 play imo. DH are arguably the 2nd fastest paragon levelers. DH have amazing aoe clearing skills and good group buffs. What are you basing your argument on? solely mp10 elite kill speeds? not every class should have the exact kill speeds. IF some classes kill say 15 seconds faster, then sobeit! roll one of every class and experience them all. whats so hard here?


this kid technoviking still doesn't realize that the monk in the video had 50k less dps than the DH ROFL.


only noobs go by sheet dps. I didn't watch the video. I don't care. I understand how classes play atm. so what if a monk with lower sheet outperforms a DH. until there is legitimate PVP and/or a competitive ladder/ranking system--there is no need for 100% class balance. you must be wow annual pass fodder
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Techno, I appreciate your passion for your side of the argument, but you can take any of the three top classes (B, W, M), gear them for roughly same amount of gold, and it will take a DH 3-4 times that amount to handle (much less be efficient) with fighting the same content.

Heck, that I might even be a bit too optimistic on that amount.
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04/08/2013 09:52 AMPosted by RUNFORIT


I guess YOUR post here technoviking about passive spirit regen:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6352435643#1

Isn't crying about pve non competitive hack and slash is it?
crybaby

Here are some quotes from this hypocrites post:
"MOST from giving us PASSIVE SPIRIT REGEN! (or significantly buffing spirit generators)"
"passives/skills by DEFAULT lol"
"spirit regen is sacrificing TOO much and isn't viable. "

oh and here are the rest of his QQ posts.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6412402317#1 - horned goliath to strong! (crybaby)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592580838?page=2#31 - begging for OW buff - QQQQQ
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7708992581#1 - crying about the auctionhouse
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7788909065#1 - crying about tempest rush
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7789139129#1 - crying about ask the devs
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7811152628#1 - crying about stonefort non-existent bug
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7924142366#1 -crying about bells one shotting himself(noob)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7922982933#1 - crying about warrior rest demonic essence
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6413133447#1 - not enough waypoints! QQQQQ
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415155868#1 - not enough organs dropping!! QQQQQQ

Do you ever stop ??


Blizz buffed monks damage skills all by 2.5x (pretty much)
You telling me that DH don't deserve a little love?
GTFO scrubcake yankee


you are trying WAYY too hard kid. Judging by your DH's name "Poppawoody" I assume it is a direct result of your pre-pubescence. Don't worry your voice will deepen soon enough. As to your general fondness for prior post lurking, that concerns me. You clearly offer far too much effort to try to emphasize your points. the bottom line is, you are a 14k elite kill undergeared DH noob with poor general knowledge of the other classes. Next time grow a little before you call others out.
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while i agree with the message you are trying to put across there are few points that need to be taken into consideration:

- skorn with marq ruby means INSANE crits when they happen. and from what I saw, they DID happen. outcome could have been A BIT different if you had a string of non-crit bells

- burst damage was possible due to 250 spirit available at the start of the fight. in most cases this does not look that good (but it is possible when farming this area only)

- sentries in this spot.. not a great idea, trash mobs ate most of the damage - LFB might be a better choice. and sentries dont crit so their input is pretty minimal in this case esp that you get their full dps after 18 secs minimum.

- marked for death. overrawe is crazy *1.5 multiplier so no surprise that the damage done by WoL crits is so sick

- custom engineering. are you sure that you can take advantage of that? probably you can but i cant see your gear so im not sure. if not this is a wasted slot.

- gloom.. instead of +damage passive. change to MFD

- what +skills bonuses you had on your gear and were they aligned with skills you used?

entangling shot/shock collar + cull the weak instead of bola/custom engineering might have improved the time a bit, also change sentries to LFB

result will still disappoint but the difference will not be that great. part of low DH multiplier is that there are rarely more than 2 sources of damage going at the same time with DHs compared to like 4-5 in case of your monk

btw besides the obvious DH weakness the OP empowered wave is much to obvious. blizz has to nerf that to like 60 spirit instead of 40. this is crazy op in current state.. :/


quoting myself for any comment. DH needs buffs, but this video shows what is obvious: DH with 2 sources of damage or +dmg buffs will kill stuff slower than monk with 5 sources of damage or +dmg skills. anyone pretending to be surprised is well.. slow.
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Techno, I appreciate your passion for your side of the argument, but you can take any of the three top classes (B, W, M), gear them for roughly same amount of gold, and it will take a DH 3-4 times that amount to handle (much less be efficient) with fighting the same content.

Heck, that I might even be a bit too optimistic on that amount.


Ya I agree w/ ya man. I am not sure if I would classify high end DH gearing as more expensive than Monk---but definitely barb. I just think there is a wider variety of variables to consider here thats all. I highly recommend playing all classes that way you don't get burnt out as fast. afterall, we are all playing this as a game, a source of stimuli. No need to consider efficiency as the #1 decision making factor for all the classes.
Edited by Technoviking#1999 on 4/8/2013 10:21 AM PDT
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just watched the video..

of course the DH is gonna look bad. he's not optimized to deal full dps. you should've used Imminent Doom on your bola shot. and since youre comparing it with a class that uses overawe, replace the bat with MFD-Grim Reaper. That wouldve made a world of difference.

"solve" eDPS by having larger sheet dps + build tweerking to compensate

steady aim taking the 268 -> 321k (conditional)
CTW (conditional) 15%
M4D 12%

= yield a 54% eDPS increase, changing kill time x/1.54 from 23 seconds down to 15 seconds

huge improvement relative DH1 to DH2 still insignificant compared to 6 seconds on the monk
Getting these conditions to work require a change in gameplay that is not conducive with all encounters, nor would it allow you to approach the same kill time anyway.

the situation was nearly ideal, the mob stayed under the best concurrent nuke (echos) the DH has; even if they could achieve that 100% nuke maximization still far worse relative to monk example

dont act as if the DH community since 2/12/2013 hasn't tried; god how we have tried! There are plenty of style/build alterations people can trade and discuss min/max in one area of game play (WR/ COTA or ubers... w/e) these nuances are irrelevant; bottom line you can output better with less effort

there is little the DH can do when a 329% WoL was buffed to 829%, just don't have the spenders
Edited by zoid#1554 on 4/8/2013 10:30 AM PDT
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Techno, I appreciate your passion for your side of the argument, but you can take any of the three top classes (B, W, M), gear them for roughly same amount of gold, and it will take a DH 3-4 times that amount to handle (much less be efficient) with fighting the same content.

Heck, that I might even be a bit too optimistic on that amount.

that deuce bag didn't even watch the video. His argument is just a pathetic troll attempt.

If this topic was about monks needing a passive skill buff, he'd be crawling all over it with +1+1+1+1 replies


you may wanna slow down with the insults/name calling poppawoody. you will catch a timeout if you keep it up man. just a heads up
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Not surprised by the video at all.. I farm with a monk who is less geared/less sheet DPS and he has a much easier time than me. Regardless, I'm pretty sure Blizzard is aware of what's going on. Blizzard does read forums and there's been plenty of threads about the current state of the Demon Hunter class.

Only the people who spent billions on their DH can emphasize here. It's real frustrating seeing other classes (who are less geared) nuke down elites and trash much faster than we can. It frustrated me so much, I gave up on my DH and made a Barb. Won't be coming back until there's some adjustments made.
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I spent well over a billion gearing my dh and I agree that dh does need some buffs in terms of eDPS. Last night I went to time myself fighting inferno mp10 ghom and my monk with my dh gear killed ghom 15 seconds faster and my monk has about 129k (w/SOJ) paper dps while my dh has 270k+ paper dps (w/SOJ)..kinda makes me sad but i guess what's keeping me in this game is hitting p100.
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Techno, I appreciate your passion for your side of the argument, but you can take any of the three top classes (B, W, M), gear them for roughly same amount of gold, and it will take a DH 3-4 times that amount to handle (much less be efficient) with fighting the same content.

Heck, that I might even be a bit too optimistic on that amount.


Ya I agree w/ ya man. I am not sure if I would classify high end DH gearing as more expensive than Monk---but definitely barb. I just think there is a wider variety of variables to consider here thats all. I highly recommend playing all classes that way you don't get burnt out as fast. afterall, we are all playing this as a game, a source of stimuli. No need to consider efficiency as the #1 decision making factor for all the classes.


you didn't even watch the video techno-dyke.
Stop trolling this Godly thread.
The monk in the video had significantly lesser DPS than the DH did. It was simply for fhowing how slow DHs are to kill elites... and took place on mp8
monk 6 seconds
DH 22 seconds
on mp10 it would've taken that monk 18 seconds and taken the DH 1:06 minute.

Stop with the passive aggressive BS, you didn't even watch the video yet have all this "insight" for us.
rofl. what a tool.
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That there is a clear difference between the DH and other classes really says something - and there IS a clear difference.

My barb and my DH have roughly the same "paper doll" dps but my barbarian can clear WAY faster than my DH can.
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That there is a clear difference between the DH and other classes really says something - and there IS a clear difference.

My barb and my DH have roughly the same "paper doll" dps but my barbarian can clear WAY faster than my DH can.
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Let's see, Monks have: faster elite kill times (even with lower DPS), 30% innate damage reduction, and excellent mobility. What do us DHs have? Decent mobility and ferrets to pick up our gold.
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Only the people who spent billions on their DH can emphasize here
I didn't spend billions I can emphasize as much as I want. In fact since my last posts I was farming MP10 and picked up 2 legendaries in that time frame.
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04/08/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Wukong
Only the people who spent billions on their DH can emphasize here
I didn't spend billions I can emphasize as much as I want. In fact since my last posts I was farming MP10 and picked up 2 legendaries in that time frame.


video or it didn't happen.
Did you die 15 times before finally killing the pack?
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+1. I agree with the OP. It was a well made post.

My gear is worth billions on my demonhunter and other classes who don't even spend 1 billion can easily have faster kill times than my demonhunter. The developers want the classes to be more even but they are far from even.
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