Diablo® III

Demon Hunter eDPS (effective DPS) Issue

The thing I feel the most right now is that every other class has a way to make his resource regen 100% uptime with the right gear, us DH's can't:

Barb - sprint tornadoes
Monk - Nirvana (look it up)
Wizz - CM
WD - incredible passives like Grave injustice and mana regen scales very well with gear

ok.. to be fair we have Marked for death (mortal enemy) and bat.. but mortal enemy only works on 1 monster wich usually dies quick unless it's an elite but still... even If you have max hatred regen possible on gear you still can't spam your hatred skills effectively like other classes can.

I understand it is dangerous to increase hatred regen because of the risk that hatred generators become obsolete but I feel that because of that our spenders should do a LOT more dmg, since we can't make our hatred 100%uptime like other classes. Almost everyone uses spike trap (Eb) because its the only skill that for 30 hatred can hit 3x 275%, wich is the best dmg per hatred spent..

Please blizzard give us some feedback, we really want to hear your opinion on this !

Cheers

edit: corrected EB dmg said 375% its 275%
Edited by Patronito#2768 on 5/1/2013 12:41 PM PDT
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05/01/2013 02:08 AMPosted by Patronito
because its the only skill that for 30 hatred can hit 3x 375%


275%

Our hatred spenders suck yes.

But as I've said probably 10000000 times, simply increasing our weapon dmg on skills isn't enough. We need synergy between our skills. We need ways to scale as MP gets harder.

If Blizzard finally decided to release an endgame (not gonna hold my breath) and mobs got even harder.... we'd just have the same problem and the other classes would out-scale us again.

GIVE US SYNERGY!
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Life 2!
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we Need to buff Something!! Rapid fire can be useful in its own way but that does not increase our creative build!
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its so unbelievable that a thread can go 82 pages without a blizzard employee recognizing this.

Whats the record ? this has to be something spectacular lol.

It's blatantly obvious that this d3 team is either a)too small of a dev team or b) focus is elsewhere.

The sheer amount of neglect is mind numbing
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05/01/2013 06:17 AMPosted by Sanoku
other classes would out-scale


That's the biggest issue. DH has zero MOB density/difficulty scalling. We have noway of lowering cool downs or extend any defensive buff or offensive buff a.k.a APoC / Battle Rage / Sweeping Wind. All these skills scale with mob size. i.e: they remain buffed till all the mobs are dead via crit procs mostly..

Second issue : DH players are the only class with GUILT. Yes. Any suggestions to make a comparable buff. OH. Wait we will be too OP. for example:

Let's make bola thunder ball 100% stun instead of 25%. NOOO too OP. Bola versus CM wiz freez. 1 target with 25% to stun for 1.5 secs versus every mob pack on screen FREEZE for 3 seconds with zero cool downs that can be spammed. NO .. ASKING a DH skill to be on par is too OP..

Shadow Power last 5 seconds with no way to extend without recasting even though we use at least 3 skill slots to make this skill work VERSUS battle rage / energy armor / mantras that last at least 120 second to 7 minutes - but ask for a DH to have 120 shadow power and I AM lazy ??

STRAFE / ROV /archery/gloom/ steady BUFFS versus berzerker rage ( we know the clear winner ) BERZERKER RAGE is one skill slot that out BUFFS and OUT LAST 4 skill slots put together in DPS/eHP. Nevermind all the affix a mob throws out that has zero effect to berzerker mode.

Blizzard Devs - Please DO something .. .
Edited by BlackVenom#1754 on 5/1/2013 1:59 PM PDT
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05/01/2013 01:53 PMPosted by BlackVenom
other classes would out-scale


Second issue : DH players are the only class with GUILT. Yes. Any suggestions to make a comparable buff. OH. Wait we will be too OP. for example:

Let's make bola thunder ball 100% stun instead of 25%. NOOO too OP. Bola versus CM wiz freez. 1 target with 25% to stun for 1.5 secs versus every mob pack on screen FREEZE for 3 seconds with zero cool downs that can be spammed. NO .. ASKING a DH skill to be on par is too OP..

Shadow Power last 5 seconds with no way to extend without recasting even though we use at least 3 skill slots to make this skill work VERSUS battle rage / energy armor / mantras that last at least 120 second to 7 minutes - but ask for a DH to have 120 shadow power and I AM lazy ??

STRAFE / ROV /archery/gloom/ steady BUFFS versus berzerker rage ( we know the clear winner ) BERZERKER RAGE is one skill slot that out BUFFS and OUT LAST 4 skill slots put together in DPS/eHP. Nevermind all the affix a mob throws out that has zero effect to berzerker mode.

Blizzard Devs - Please DO something .. .


Haha very good point. I think that has to do with the fact Demon Hunters actually have to work at being good in this game on higher MPLs whereas the other classes have what you have already pointed out. So if we get some nice toy that feels OP, we feel guilty that we actually don't have to work as hard any more.
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resource regen 100% uptime with the right gear, us DH's can't:

Barb - sprint tornadoes
Monk - Nirvana (look it up)
Wizz - CM
WD - incredible passives like Grave injustice and mana regen scales very well with gear


Barb - Into the fray with high cc/ias and any AOE attacks. It's that synergy with WoTB - CC imunity that's so powerful

Monk - Nivarna ... no it's more like 40% uptime of unilimited spirit .... this is like a drug addiction build ... nivarna monks are weak when out of it

DH – maintaining discipline is okay … hatred is okay too (shooting air to regain it is nice) … pdps to edps is horrible though! Need a huge buff here

CM Wiz and 0 dog WD are just crazy powerful as well

... yeah DH definitely needs BUFF!
where do I sign on this 82 pages and counting thread?
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I thnk if blizzard actual,y buffed some skills that alot of dhs used, there would be another outcry that dhs rule. And dhs would get nerfed again. Not a big fan of rapidfire, never have been. So much for dh love.

Rock <-------Blizzard/dh -------> hard place
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04/30/2013 06:06 PMPosted by Michael
I wish blizzard would actually play a demonhunter with gear, then play a monk/barb/wd/wiz on mp10.. and then tell us that they believe the class is balanced.


+1
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I thnk if blizzard actual,y buffed some skills that alot of dhs used, there would be another outcry that dhs rule. And dhs would get nerfed again. Not a big fan of rapidfire, never have been. So much for dh love.

Rock <-------Blizzard/dh -------> hard place


Unless it is something extremely outrageous do you honestly believe a few buffs would be more OP than what Barbs can do? Even something as OP as ToC which was extremely powerful wouldn't have eclipsed what a Barb can do but would help us out a lot.
Edited by Kadderly#1572 on 5/2/2013 2:19 PM PDT
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I am really disappointed in Blizzard how they handle this topic. It was created 3.5 weeks ago and prior to this post from TianZi the DH issues were well known. Still, there is no response nor a confirmation about it. It's a slap in the face for DH that Blizzard dogdes this topic.

I do realize DH need radical changes which are too huge for patch 1.0.8. But at least a blue poster could confirm that the devs will take a look at these issues, and work on them in upcoming patches.
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I thnk if blizzard actual,y buffed some skills that alot of dhs used, there would be another outcry that dhs rule. And dhs would get nerfed again. Not a big fan of rapidfire, never have been. So much for dh love.

Rock <-------Blizzard/dh -------> hard place


Unless it is something extremely outrageous do you honestly believe a few buffs would be more OP than what Barbs can do? Even something as OP as ToC which was extremely powerful wouldn't have eclipsed what a Barb can do but would help us out a lot.


Actually it will not even come close to what a barb can do dps wise. Trust me i know, i play with a top 20 barb on a nightly basis and he easily crits into the millions, with crits easily topping the 10 mil mark, as i watch my crits hit for 600-700k tops with average crit doing between 3-500k

So no, no buff they give us will even come close to what a well geared barb can do. I am in top 500 for dhs, bet you can take a barb that is in the top 3k and they will easily output any dmage i can.

We need dps help. Paper dps dont mean !@#$. It looks good on paper, thats about it.
Yay for paper?
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I am really disappointed in Blizzard how they handle this topic. It was created 3.5 weeks ago and prior to this post from TianZi the DH issues were well known. Still, there is no response nor a confirmation about it. It's a slap in the face for DH that Blizzard dogdes this topic.

I do realize DH need radical changes which are too huge for patch 1.0.8. But at least a blue poster could confirm that the devs will take a look at these issues, and work on them in upcoming patches.


Devs were forwarded this thread in the first few days of the thread's creation. There's not a blue poster saying as such here in this thread, but there was one in another thread while talking about this thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8569328143?page=2#31
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05/02/2013 05:34 PMPosted by Trivan
Devs were forwarded this thread in the first few days of the thread's creation


We are all aware of this fact. The points we REAL acknowledgement. What's going to happen if the DEVs reply?? should we look for that in a different thread too??

The Blizzard DEVS and TEAM are AFRAID to post on this thread because of FEAR. That's right. They know very well that as soon as they post here, they cannot hope to offer any credible response to THEIR failure towards DH thus far...

That's LAME cop-out IMO. The best scenario is that DH players will migrate to BARB or WIZ or MONK.. But in the long term it will be to OTHER GAMES ( Blizzard better hope it's to WOW or STAR CRAFT - but if they believe those are GAMERS only options they better get head out the sand )..
Edited by BlackVenom#1754 on 5/3/2013 10:37 AM PDT
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I hope this is not too far afield for this topic, but I have been using Cluster Arrow/Loaded for the Bear for awhile. I have Perfectionist/Punishment to beef my hatred regen so that I can fire off lots of cluster arrows, but recently I have stopped bothering with Perfectionist. I seem to do more damage with my grenades, and that ain't great.

Why is Cluster Arrow dealing such piddly damage? Is it calculated wrong? 304% + damage from any bombs after the initial blast should keep it in the 400-500% range, but this is clearly not happening.
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other classes would out-scale


That's the biggest issue. DH has zero MOB density/difficulty scalling. We have noway of lowering cool downs or extend any defensive buff or offensive buff a.k.a APoC / Battle Rage / Sweeping Wind. All these skills scale with mob size. i.e: they remain buffed till all the mobs are dead via crit procs mostly..

Second issue : DH players are the only class with GUILT. Yes. Any suggestions to make a comparable buff. OH. Wait we will be too OP. for example:

Let's make bola thunder ball 100% stun instead of 25%. NOOO too OP. Bola versus CM wiz freez. 1 target with 25% to stun for 1.5 secs versus every mob pack on screen FREEZE for 3 seconds with zero cool downs that can be spammed. NO .. ASKING a DH skill to be on par is too OP..

Shadow Power last 5 seconds with no way to extend without recasting even though we use at least 3 skill slots to make this skill work VERSUS battle rage / energy armor / mantras that last at least 120 second to 7 minutes - but ask for a DH to have 120 shadow power and I AM lazy ??

STRAFE / ROV /archery/gloom/ steady BUFFS versus berzerker rage ( we know the clear winner ) BERZERKER RAGE is one skill slot that out BUFFS and OUT LAST 4 skill slots put together in DPS/eHP. Nevermind all the affix a mob throws out that has zero effect to berzerker mode.

Blizzard Devs - Please DO something .. .


+1. Very good points.

It's very frustrating to love a class so much and hate it so much. When NT was nerfed that was the start of the demise of the DH. Blizz nerfed it so hard, it's not even a skill considered anymore. Heck, sometimes it will travel right through mobs and not register hitting them.

Our class is truly broken and I hope something changes. My fingers are tired from CM spamming and brain hurts from the lack of skill needed to play them.
Edited by Knatsucow#1956 on 5/3/2013 1:38 PM PDT
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05/01/2013 01:53 PMPosted by BlackVenom
other classes would out-scale


That's the biggest issue. DH has zero MOB density/difficulty scalling. We have noway of lowering cool downs or extend any defensive buff or offensive buff a.k.a APoC / Battle Rage / Sweeping Wind. All these skills scale with mob size. i.e: they remain buffed till all the mobs are dead via crit procs mostly..

Second issue : DH players are the only class with GUILT. Yes. Any suggestions to make a comparable buff. OH. Wait we will be too OP. for example:

Let's make bola thunder ball 100% stun instead of 25%. NOOO too OP. Bola versus CM wiz freez. 1 target with 25% to stun for 1.5 secs versus every mob pack on screen FREEZE for 3 seconds with zero cool downs that can be spammed. NO .. ASKING a DH skill to be on par is too OP..

Shadow Power last 5 seconds with no way to extend without recasting even though we use at least 3 skill slots to make this skill work VERSUS battle rage / energy armor / mantras that last at least 120 second to 7 minutes - but ask for a DH to have 120 shadow power and I AM lazy ??

STRAFE / ROV /archery/gloom/ steady BUFFS versus berzerker rage ( we know the clear winner ) BERZERKER RAGE is one skill slot that out BUFFS and OUT LAST 4 skill slots put together in DPS/eHP. Nevermind all the affix a mob throws out that has zero effect to berzerker mode.

Blizzard Devs - Please DO something .. .


Well said bro!! well said!!

PLS BUFF US BLIZZZ!

oh and wut the 82 pages and no blue!!???
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Nether Tentacles as it is now is completely awful. No one will ever use it again if it stays nerfed, so why not un-nerf NT or remove it completely and replace it with something we feel like we could maybe use?
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Well said bro!! well said!!

PLS BUFF US BLIZZZ!


I would like to add alittle more to the topic of BUFFs and BROKEN class ( BARB/WIZ/MONK and soon to WD after 1.08 ). Please DON'T break DH CLASS as well.

I will put in a way most of the GUILT MINDED DH can understand. Image a DH with 120 seconds GLOOM / STRAFE generates Hatred / Cluster Arrow is buff to 800% damage and we can spam it 9 times straight and regen the hatred back to full in less than 3 secs. NOW WE ALL agree that would be a BROKEN DH class. We DON'T want that that. But that is how far MONKS/BARBS/WIZ and soon WD are at have gone off the deep end ( 7.56 sec to kill Ghom on MP10 ). All the limits put on them have been removed ( cool downs removed / buff times extended / skills buffed ) and eDPS increased 1000% ( they can have 3 buffs active at all times / attack with 3 skills at the same time at all times). They are BROKEN.

DON'T break the DH class too..

My suggestion, tweak the DH alittle. As much as I complain, I still love the DH and feel that is not that weak against MOBS. It is weak compared to other BROKEN classes though. Don't break the DH class so we can be comparable. We just want a little ATTENTION to KEY issues. We are not asking to be the BEST most OP/BROKEN class in D3. The mobs and elites have gotten STRONGER since launch and will get even stronger against DH ( increased mob density - DH weakness ).

Please BALANCE / SCALE DH to mob difficulty for up coming patches..
Edited by BlackVenom#1754 on 5/4/2013 9:48 AM PDT
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