Diablo® III

Demon Hunter eDPS (effective DPS) Issue

bump this thread should never drop to page two until we get some love from blizz, Tianzi is the first DH EVER to really got blizzards attention outside of getting us nerfed because of the wrong kind of attention lol
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Wow. 91 pages. Admittedly, forum goers are the exception, not the rule, but I think it still indicates that Demon Hunters are not "in a good place right now."
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06/27/2013 03:17 PMPosted by METATRON
bump this thread should never drop to page two until we get some love from blizz, Tianzi is the first DH EVER to really got blizzards attention outside of getting us nerfed because of the wrong kind of attention lol


This Bump is for TianZi. We'll keep bumping this thread, so that if you decide to come back one day you'll find a completely buffed and improved Demon Hunter.
YOU SHALL NOT PASS TO PAGE 2.
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Just buff all the skills to be competitive so we can CHOOSE this is getting old already!
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So yeah apparently bumps are auto-deleted by moderators so if you want to keep this thread going I suggest you add some content to the post.

I've read the interview with Wyatt Cheng a while back and he seems to be of the opinion that it isn't DH that are too weak but it's the fact that other classes like barbs and CM wizes are too strong. OP and UP are all relative imo. But in this case I have the feeling that we are not so much going to get a buff as a class as other classes are going to be hit with the nerf bat.

Personally though, if I were to choose between buffing one class vs. nerfing 3-4 other classes, I'd buff the one class.
Edited by TheChainRule#1530 on 6/28/2013 12:46 PM PDT
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So yeah apparently bumps are auto-deleted by moderators so if you want to keep this thread going I suggest you add some content to the post.

I've read the interview with Wyatt Cheng a while back and he seems to be of the opinion that it isn't DH that are too weak but it's the fact that other classes like barbs and CM wizes are too strong. OP and UP are all relative imo. But in this case I have the feeling that we are not so much going to get a buff as a class as other classes are going to be hit with the nerf bat.

Personally though, if I were to choose between buffing one class vs. nerfing 3-4 other classes, I'd buff the one class.


Which is ridiculous. 4/5 classes are OP, so instead of bringing up the 1, we'll take down the 4. In addition, unless they rework DH abilities/passives to have some actual synergy like the other classes the same problem will result with new content.
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06/28/2013 12:44 PMPosted by TheChainRule
So yeah apparently bumps are auto-deleted by moderators so if you want to keep this thread going I suggest you add some content to the post.


I don't know about that.. but.. I just posted something gibberish and deleted it outright just to bump it up ;)

About the nerfing and buffing.. If they are to nerf 4 Classes.. Here are some things than can happen.
PROS
More money for them, 4 class will re-gear

CONS
Less money if people leaves, which is tried and tested since with every major patch.. either some leaves or some comes back

Just buff DHs are do some rework.. even without buffing the present skills/runes.. a rework might be much more beneficial in some ways.. there are TONS of runes that aren't being used.. which is true to all 5 classes. Those might be a good start..
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I feel like a big part of the issue is itemization. Coming back to dh from wizard, I can tell you the items that wizard got in 1.04 let the class excel on whole new level. The wizard just has so many choices when it comes to armor and weapons depending on the spec. I personally feel that the attack speed nerf killed the demon hunters. The demon hunter is capable of achieving the highest attack frames per second without the aid of skill/ passive. I think it safe to say the demon hunter is attack speed class just like the D2 Amazon. I personally quit my DH last june because of the attack speed nerf and went to play wizard. I believe a lot of the proc skills on the dh are proc by chance because of the extreme amount of attack speed the dh could have at launch. The potential of rare bows, hand bows, and quiver need to up to be on par with current legendaries. Cloaks need to also become more attractive. Hatred regen on items need a slight increase across the board. I personally feel like the class plays the best with a lot of discipline and high attack speed. It would be nice if I could get enough disc off gear and night stalker procs to keep up mobility... and also drop wasted skill slot "preparation".

I personally would love to rain of vengeance to just be removed. I would like the 2011 beta DH shadow power to return and buffed to fit in with current gameplay. You know the one that increase attack speed and movement speed. Shadow power was the original DH ultimate shown,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApgJ-dzzZXc

@2:30

I believe that would help the dh edps a ton.

Edit:

One more thing...

Multi shot I feel is iconic skill in Diablo universe such as hydra of wizard, and WW of the barb.

Why is it so bad...
Edited by AFAIK#1441 on 6/28/2013 2:25 PM PDT
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Problem is simply the damage on skills. Monk attacks 3 or 4 times, then drops a bell doing nearly 1000% weapon damage. DH attacks 4 or 5 times and fires off something weak like a 200% multishot or 300% cluster arrow.

Fix is either greatly increase the amount of hatred DH's can get so they can spam these skills in a similar fashion to disintegrate, zombie charge, etc. or greatly increase the damage so when they do drop after several hatred generation attacks, things die like monk bell build.
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It's all relevant imo. melee will have certain strengths/weaknesses as well as ranged...

DH'S sacrifice some tDPS in exchange for extreme mobility, being ranged, perma invulnerability and more group utility


Complete load of nonsence....

The counter to ranged fire = increased vulnerability (demon hunters are by far the weakest class in terms of survivability)

The Counter to Mobility = Loss of effective DPS output (when the DH is on the move his effective DPS is massiviely reduced/removed until he/she goes static and starts channeling again.)

The class already has built in couterweight to offset the advantage that ranged fire gives and mobility comes at a severe cost to the DH's damage output (unlike barbs/monks)

The DH is a glass cannon, he was designed to be a glass cannon from the outset of the game, you take away his cannon and all your left with is glass.

The DH isnt supposed to have the survivability of the other classes, he's not supposed to have epic buffs/debuffs.....What the DH is supposed to bring to the fight is RAW FIREPOWER.

the cost of which is offset by his lack of survivability, and DPS downtime when mobile.

PS: and as for the perma invulnerability (ie:SS), that was nerfed a long time ago, because it was never supposed to be "perma", that issue has been resolved, hence why noone really runs an SS build any more.
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the fact that barb can be better long range attacker, completely makes demon hunter a joke.
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06/29/2013 06:52 AMPosted by Krak
the fact that barb can be better long range attacker, completely makes demon hunter a joke.


how? I playing weapon throw on my barb, but the damage is very very weak.
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I think what would be really nice is if there can be a lot more synergy between different skills. For instance, hatred generators can be doing a lot more than just giving you hatred... it should make certain hatred spenders hit a lot harder (since now you're more "hateful" hehe) depending on which hatred generator you choose to use.

Example:

Using Bola Shot or Grenades puts you in a Demolition Frenzy.

Demolition Frenzy: Your expertise with hatred spenders that cause explosions is greatly increased for 10 seconds. The critical hit chance of your Spike Traps, Cluster Arrow, and Rapid Fire: Bombardment is increased by 5%. The damage of these skills are also increased by 75%. Demolition Frenzy can stack up to 5 times.

Maybe a similar synergy between Hungering Arrow and Elemental Arrow can be established. Another idea floating in my head right now is Entangling Shot and Discipline regen (maybe to make the defensive utility of Entangling Shot more attractive). Ideas welcome!

Edit: Add Strafe: Demolition in there as well.
Edited by TheChainRule#1530 on 6/29/2013 12:45 PM PDT
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the fact that barb can be better long range attacker, completely makes demon hunter a joke.


how? I playing weapon throw on my barb, but the damage is very very weak.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaU_catdmfg

how you may ask? and this is "fun build" lol

I find this extremely funny that throw barb is even able to do this. As melee class. his abilities/passives clearly better. Should they nerf the barb for this, no. But should they BUFF the demon hunter...hell yes. The fact that some people don't even see clear huge gap between dh vs other classes is what bothers me the most. aka travis day "dh are in good spot."
Edited by Krak#1139 on 6/29/2013 1:41 PM PDT
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how? I playing weapon throw on my barb, but the damage is very very weak.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaU_catdmfg

how you may ask? and this is "fun build" lol

I find this extremely funny that throw barb is even able to do this. As melee class. his abilities/passives clearly better. Should they nerf the barb for this, no. But should they BUFF the demon hunter...hell yes. The fact that some people don't even see clear huge gap between dh vs other classes is what bothers me the most. aka travis day "dh are in good spot."


Dh are in a good spot, assuming they're the only class there is. Up until this latest rapid fire buff, there were myriad builds a DH could viably use (just not nearly as efficiently as the other classes) The latest rapid fire buff has put a skew on what builds a DH can use for their own relative efficiency. The problem comes when comparing the DH to other classes, it is here that my mind is boggled when other people say there is no difference.

Prior to the rapid fire buff I powerlevelled my barb and my monk. With my monk I made a tempest rush build and used what pieces I could from my DH to my monk, the other items I bought were fairly inexpensive, the result? I could farm xp/legs at a rate that my strafe DH couldn't achieve. I spent roughly 30-40 mil on my barb's setup and farmed high MP, and the result? I could farm xp/legs at a rate that my DH, with any build, couldn't achieve. Was this encouraging? Hell no it wasn't, to see the disparity in time I had invested into my DH (and the stats that 90+ paragon levels would yield giving an advantage to the DH) and have two fresh level 60 classes do better was disappointing at best, and far from an incentive to play.
Edited by Trivan#1271 on 6/29/2013 2:39 PM PDT
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