Diablo® III

Serenity and other immunity spells.

04/10/2013 02:55 AMPosted by zSnakez
I'm trying but it's not the cheapest thing to do. My original building "philosophy" had no intention of using crit damage, since I had no idea it existed for one, and i didn't know how big of an impact it really made on damage until, idk some time ago. I've slowly been working my way in that direction ever since. Edit: and I always have my healing buff up so that number might as well be 82k, since the buff increases my damage by around 10k.

I think u need to worry a little less about damage and more about survival for higher mp's. my mp1 farm build has 85k dps unbuffed, my mp4 build has 40k dps unbuffed (i dont claim to be great or anything). i think you may be focusing on the wrong stats, bump ur vit, get a life steal or life on hit weap (or both!). i didnt check ur resists but make sure theyr 500+ keep ur hp at 45k+ crit chacne and crit dmg come before attack speed if ur dual wielding.

Yeah, I have no problem with Spirit Walk. Just wanted to get WD into the conversation.

Ah, my bad man
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Solution Snake. Life Steal on your weapon. Problem solved.

This is just one of the itemisation/design problems with this game. Life Steal is mandatory.

Well, this is just me, but I have never had on my person more than 2 million gold at one time. It seems when it comes to one handers within my price range, there is always some huge sacrifice you have to make in order to better some other aspect of your character (i.e. I would most likely sacrifice my main stat as well as damage in general in order to obtain life steal worth having.)
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04/10/2013 03:00 AMPosted by Snoofo
@Detnyj. I already pointed them out but pointing out they hadn't been pointed out. lol

haha, I must have missed that.

As far as the OP goes, yeah, I agree with many of the others in this thread. More of a gear problem than a serenity problem.
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InB4 PvP changes another mainly PvE game, why do you people have to do this crap?
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The main point I am going to make here is; Complete immunity skills are available to all characters, though are incredibly unbalanced. Serenity costs little, but the cooldown is massive, and only lasts for 4 seconds. Though, as some of you and maybe even myself would say "you shouldn't have to have complete immunity skills in the first place." Be that as it may, but here is why the balance concerns me. 1. These skills DO exist, across the board for all characters.
2. In comparison, monks are already not as powerful as Barbarians, period, and are expected to go hand to hand just like barbarians do. (Compare top player Monk to the top player Barb, you will see a huge difference in damage and most likely armor)
3. Wizards can diamond skin FOR EXTREMELY LONG PERIODS OF TIME, and have other things assisting them with their cool down timers, thus letting them achieve pure immunity FOR EVEN LONGER PERIODS OF TIME.
4. DH can kite regardless, as well as wizards. The point is, Monks can not efficiantly play using those methods, and as I said, are expected to be up close and personal to the enemy for the duration of any battle.

So lets look at the big picture here, Monks pretty much got the short hand, for their intended purpose as melee characters. Serenity, apposed to other ALL immune spells, is quite possibly the least effective of all the other classes. To add insult to injury, Monks already have the hardest time surviving the exploits of hell, so why is it that every other character, given a certain raw talent for the game, can achieve almost pure immunity, while no matter what a monks efforts they can not achieve the same sensationalistic beauty in which is being immune to all things? My build I believe is as close as I would ever get to being "defensive" and "impenetrable" while death only comes my way when I have to wait for ridiculous cooldowns. This build is a mix of blinding, healing with dmg buff, and serenity. Those are the skills I have at my disposal, all in which after every use have sizeable cooldowns, which then provides the only time I ever die, and that tends to happen a fair amount.

I just don't find it fair, that every other character has steam rolling builds that are utterly perfect, but yet the monk has no such thing. I know, because I use the most defensive build one could possibly use for a monk aside from my choice of Mantra of Conviction.

Personally, I don't think any character should have some sort of "Pure Immunity" to damage, that is just rediculous, it defeats the purposes of pretty much every other defensive function or skill one could possibly have... You thought spamming potions to live was a bad design choice? What about spamming Diamond Skin? What about having some crazy buffed up super sayen yelling and cleaving through elite affixes taking no damage, while all you can muster as a Monk is a 4 second window you have to do pure damage, while everyone else can just stand there, and nuke the crap out of everything?

Meh, I don't really know where to go with this. I feel as though my skill could be questionable, and perhaps my problems were self caused. But I will say this atleast with certainty, no amount of dodging, stunning, and knockbacks, could ever make up for the OP bull!@#$ of being 100% immune to all things so long as things exist. I rest my case.

LOL...I haven't used serenity since 1.05
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04/10/2013 03:10 AMPosted by Urizen
LOL...I haven't used serenity since 1.05

you really had to quote the entire original message?
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I have determined, that critical hit damage and chance are extremely over powered. I noticed this when viewing other monks, most have far less dexterity than I do, but still do mountains of damage more. Thus, the big thing separating the men from the boys is really just crit damage, and life steal. So, when coming up with a build, 5 main factors must be taken into account over all others.
1. Crit Chance/DMG.
2. Vitality.
3. Main Stat.
4. Life Steal
5. All resist
They might as well change the definition of dodge to being cleaved in the face. 50% dodge means #*!%#@%* in most situations.
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1. Crit Chance/DMG.
2. Vitality.
3. Main Stat.
4. Life Steal
5. All resist

Thats Diablo III Itemization right there.
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Well not that I don't find your point somewhat true but your gear is trash to begin with so..
Anyways serenity is really useless as I and most other people consider it as waste of a skill slot. So yeah we don't have any kind of cc break. But as long as you have sufficient loh/ls and resistants, you should be fine.
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My suggestions (taken from another thread, may as well spread the word). Let me start off by saying I am not biased towards any class, I have them all and play them all.

Barb -
Nerf into the fray. It is the real problem. Lower cooldowns of every skill including WotB. On leap, throwing spear, charge, earthquake, everything. Effectively allowing you to build more fury through other means. Leap, ground stomp, ignore pain and charge are great tools to avoid or tank crowd control. The problem is the long cooldowns. There's nothing wrong with WotB providing immunity as long as you have other options, and the nerf to into the fray would make every other rune more attractive on WotB besides thrive on chaos as it would not last forever like it does now. But into the fray would still remain useful, extra fury generated on crit and extra damage.

Wizard -
Nerf energy twister proc rate and meteor proc rate and lower the cost of both, and lower the casting delay of meteor. Lower cooldowns of every skill. No more mandatory critical mass, though it will still be an option. Their secondary skills already mostly do good damage, it's the lack of synergy with critical mass that makes them all worthless. Though I think primary skills could be made more attractive with a damage increase.

DH -
Nerf gloom. Buff DH damage by a large margin. Buff brooding, thrill of the hunt and numbing traps and all pets. As well as marked for death providing more lifesteal. There's so many adjustments that every class needs, I'm not going to list them all.

Monk -
Nerf one with everything to provide 25% of your highest resist as all resist. Buff items to allow for 4x higher single resist. Buff dodge so it can activate against all attacks including ground effects like molten / plague. Thereby reducing necessity for seize the initiative. It would also help the DH with it's nerfed gloom. Resolve and numbing traps should reduce all enemy damage (including molten and plague) as well.

WD -
I don't see anything that needs nerfing really, just buffs. Lower cooldown of fetish army / big bad voodoo, wall of zombies, probably everything as well. For monks too because seven sided strike / heal / inner sanctuary all suck due to cooldown, and just to keep everything fair if every other class is getting reduced cooldowns. Damage buffs too of course for WD. Haunt, primary skills, zombie charger besides bears, etc.

Most people take spirit walk but you don't HAVE to take spirit walk to survive the higher mps. If anything they should lower the cooldown of that and horrify so they can keep up with the now potentially faster wizard and barbarians. Demon hunter is the fastest class by far with tactical advantage, their damage is just pathetic. Monk I think dashing strike should teleport you regardless of whether an enemy is selected, possibly even thunderclap and way of the hundred fists as well.

Removing the movement speed cap from items, but putting a cap on total movement speed would help too. So that way you don't feel forced to take movement skills on every class.

Some things need nerfs in order to make everything else viable, and with proper buffs in conjunction with those nerfs, nobody should be complaining. The idea is that everyone can still be just as effective with their current builds even after the nerfs. But if you wanted to do something else, you can, without feeling that you are gimping yourself for being different.

Not only that, but my suggestions also lower the 'need' for critical chance. Which is important come item patch time when Blizzard expects us to stack things besides crit.
Edited by DeadDragon#1455 on 4/10/2013 4:31 AM PDT
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04/10/2013 02:01 AMPosted by zSnakez
Though, as some of you and maybe even myself would say "you shouldn't have to have complete immunity skills in the first place."

I don't know about skills but I think these should be found on gear.
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you definitely need life steal on hut for your weapons
as you cross 100k dps, you would switch to or add life steal.
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04/10/2013 02:01 AMPosted by zSnakez
So lets look at the big picture here, Monks pretty much got the short hand, for their intended purpose as melee characters

100% disagree.
Monks continue to be the best character in the game in terms of survivability.
OP is looking at powers to literally rather than classes as a whole.

Monks can massively reduce incoming damage with passives like Resolve and OwE.
Monks have duel purpose defensive and offensive powers like SSS, Breath of heaven and Backlash rune with Mantra of Evasion.

Classes like Wizards and Barbarians only come into their own with very specific gear sets and builds. CM permafrost makes wizards better defensively where they fail at every other point in the game. Barbarians with WotB are superior defensively ONLY in areas where they can maintain fury.

The vast majority of monks can keep up their defensive bonuses easily regardless of zone while having a save yourself power in the process via serenity.
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I don't really understand what you are upset about...you say you have a "defensive" build but your gear is a total contradiction to that.

I almost believe that you are trolling.....but:

A boatload of dex does not make you defensive. Resists, armor, vitality and sustain make you defensive. You score poorly in almost all of these areas.

Some tips for you:

1) get some LoH and after you get to 100K DPS swap it out for LS

2) increase your crit chance and crit damage

3) increase your resists

4) REALLY increase your vitality

4) read some of the budget monk guides available that are mentioned in the sticky in the monk forum.

You do not have to be rich to accomplish this...cheap gear is available that will totally transform your train wreck of a build...all you have to do is try.
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@DeadDragon. You the man. I like.
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OP...you're right, Wizards can permafreeze and Diamond Skin till the cows come home, but it's gotta be one of the cheapest forms of survivability in the game. Same with DHs. Combine Night Stalker and high enough Crit Chance, they can live off of Shadow Power.

Problem is, those styles pretty much require you to take up spaces on your active and passive skill choices, which ends up watering down builds considerably and make them feel considerably less personal.

With all due respect, OP...

04/10/2013 02:01 AMPosted by zSnakez
My build I believe is as close as I would ever get to being "defensive" and "impenetrable" while death only comes my way when I have to wait for ridiculous cooldowns.

This is untrue. The build you have, in case you're not aware (and I don't want to assume you are or not) is entirely typical and cliche. It's good, but it's got its limitations. It's a build lots of people use because it maximizes damage and speed, and because they THINK it maximizes spirit generation via Thunderclap.

Despite your skill build being sound, only 25k Life, only 111 LOH that I could see, and no Life Steal, will inevitably leave you struggling on higher MPs. Life Regen is good BEFORE fights, but not during. My Monk has no Life Steal, and very little Life on Hit currently, but thanks to Transcendence, Exalted Soul, great spirit generation with Fists of Fury buffed with Infused with Light, and various spirit spenders, I can keep my health up reasonably okay in MPs 4 and 5. Even with really slow Attack Speed thanks to my high Dex Skorn.

Like you said, cooldowns do become an issue, but with a little creative timing, pacing and occasional retreats, I do fairly well. Again, I don't want to assume what MP you typically play on, but with that little Life, that skill build will cause you to hit a wall.

I'm not claiming to be any kind of pro here, but if you're looking to check out some skill variations and maybe get some alternate ideas, feel free to send me a friend request in-game, and we can compare notes. :-)
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Ok, I haven't played my monk in a while (it was my first character and my items aren't all that good), but it is really easy to survive with a monk. There are two immunity spells which when timed right allow you to completely ignore a ton of cc (SSS being the other). Add in a bit of LOH and you will be able to get your life back pretty quickly. I would also suggest getting more all resist and getting rid of one with everything (which I love but it looks like you are only adding 41 to your other resists since you haven't stuck with one resistance... if you could find items that all matched in terms of resistance you would see a big difference). I mean, I am not that good at the game and haven't been able to afford (or even look for) items that would make any of my characters decent, but surviving with the monk was never an issue.
Edited by Quintinar#1366 on 4/10/2013 8:07 AM PDT
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@Everyone, my definition of build was merely my skill choices, which I choose following the advise of a high tier monk player. I was not talking about my gear in this regard. Though it is noted that I should focus more on Ls, crit chance/dam, all res, and vitality. Thank you guys for the in depth conversations.
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