Diablo® III

A returning player's frustration with the AH


Basically, my point: How in the world am I supposed to be able to afford anything?
a) leveling a character, and buying gear lower than level 60. It's nearly all exponentially more expensive than crappy level 60 gear. Because no one lists it. The only people who buy it already have lots of gold, apparently.


This is what I do when I'm leveling (or preparing) to level a character.

I have a monk with high MF. I use him to rush through the levels ahead where my low level character is. So if I'm leveling a DH in Act 1 Normal. I'd farm Act 2 Normal with my monk.

You get lots of yellows because of the NV stacks. 50% of them stink. But the rest are either usable for the DH (or whichever character I want to level) or can be listed on AH. I found an amulet that wasn't usable for the class I was leveling once, but still sold it for 1.5M on AH. I don't remember the exact stats, but I think it was level 27 with Int, +exp, socket, CC and CD.

Not the ideal solution, I know. But you just have to work around the inefficient Diablo 3 loot system.
Edited by jonclau#1835 on 4/16/2013 10:55 AM PDT
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I haven't read all five pages of this post, but from what I can tell I share OP's opinions on most of the things that I see on the AH. I was going to make my own thread, but I'll just piggy back a little bit here since a lot has already been elaborated. I have picked up almost 11 million gold total according to the achievements listing, and usually have between 1 and 2 million in the bank between upgrading gems, repairs, crafting, and the occasional trip to the AH.

I see two problems that disengage me from using the AH.

1. There are a ton of completely asinine listings that waste my time. Zunimassa's Marrow with 150 int 150 vit 70 RA and melee damage. For 88 million. Please. There are dozens if not hundreds of these that I can guarantee never sell because the bid is the same as buyout and there are 35 minutes left. Just wasting space in my search window.

2. There isn't enough true "welfare gear". Everything less than Ice Climbers totally sucks. Everything less than Dead Man's Legacy is a joke. Cindercoat, why do you even exist!? Even the best rolls of something like The Gidbinn are not competitive for use beyond the first couple of paragon levels, if that. If that.

So where do I go with 1.5 million in my pocket to bid on a decent belt? Scrounging through overpriced Rare gear because Hellcat Waistguard, Angel Hair Braid and Ageless Might just aren't useful. I go to the grind.
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@OP,

I hear you and while I still sympathize with some of your complains related to AH (stuff is overpriced, for sure), here are the tips on how to move on:

1) Since you have few classes that you already leveled up, pick the one which is your favorite and build it for your efficient farming machine. Remember, each paragon level gives you extra 3% MF/GF. You _will_ start finding gear that sells. Yes, you will encounter "dry spell" periods where the grinding seems like a moot point, but every now and then you will also find something worth selling to upgrade your character.
2) Play at MP level that you're efficient at. Don't fall into a trap where "you can beat MPx" but it takes you 5 mins to kill an elite pack. You will get there eventually with better gear, but stick with efficiency for now.
3) Use the forum specific to your favorite class to get an input on how to gear up. People have already opened the door, no need to reopen. Plus, it is free advice. Can't get better than this.
4) Before you go for the incremental upgrade, simulate it with D3UP. Saves you tons of frustration with missed purchases. Point 3) applies as well.
5) Last but not least, you have to play game in order to find items. Shocker, I know :)

Good luck!

Edit: spelling
Edited by arcus73#1307 on 4/16/2013 11:50 AM PDT
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OP if u spent time playing the game rather then sitting on the forums trying to redesign the game u might make it somewhere.

prices are perfect, i can afford whatever i need, and its easy collecting gold weather its selling or gold finding. you just do not understand how the Diablo series is....

I WILL MAKE THIS VERY SIMPLE FOR YOU..... THIS IS NOT.. AND I REPEAT NOT.... ELDER SCROLLS OR FALLOUT..... YOU ARE NOT MEANT TO BE FULLY GEARED AND OP BY THE TIME U REACH INFERNO/END GAME......... PLAYERS ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO BE EQUAL, EVEN IF YOU STARTED SINCE LAUNCH OR ARE RETURNING OR JUST STARTED PLAYING A MONTH AGO...

I got over 1000 hours on ONE CHARACTER, and i have had only one crazy godly drop that sold for 1.2 bilion gold. It was a IK Chest back in 1.0.5, there are reasons items are listed at 2billion gold. ITS BECAUSE THEY NEVER F@#$ING DROP.......

I personally have found 3 Mempos out of these 1000+ hours of game time, not a single one had any CC. i doubt there are alot of players who have even found 1 Mempo yet.......

But here u are with 2k elite kills on each character demanding cheaper prices and better drops, all out crying about the game. when 80% of the player base is doing just fine, maybe u shouldn't have quit when u did?

Or maybe u should put in the time like me and other players alike, and then you will find good gear to sue and sell. ORRRRRRRRR you could go play Skyrim, casue i know thats ur kinda game. Nice and streamlined.

(I cannot belief this guy, has a hundred or so hours invested, and hes trying to redesign it like every other fool on here with 5k elite kills. I think they need to figure out that this game is not for them and move onto the next console game that is being release next LOL)


Man, you're a serious jerk.

I've never played skyrim.

Blizzard asks for feedback. I'm giving them feedback. I left the game due to frustration. I came back 6+ months later and the same frustration is there. I'm not trying to re-design anything. Lots of people seem to agree, to varying levels, with parts of what I've posted. Next time you decide to act like a 12 year-old, maybe you should just, not.

Let's say a new person picks up D3 right now, and tries to use the AH to buy gear as they're levelling. They won't be able to, for the most part. All the gear is priced for people who already have farming characters. I've watched the blizzard model quite closely the last few years, and one thing they're quite clear about is making the game accessible for new players. The AH in D3 right now is not very accessible to new players. At least ones who won't buy gold on the RMAH.

Your 80% statistic is completely made up. Based on how many of my friends have left the game, I would say it's false; the people who are still here may be somewhat satisfied, but I'm the only remaining player of about 15 friends who bought the game.

I'm just trying to help. I've reconsidered my expectations about certain aspects of my original post, but there are some things in there, especially in AH quality-of-life, that are still in need of attention.
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It is not hard to find an upgrade. Right click the piece you want to upgrade and search for similar. Take out any stats that you dont care about and add any that you would perfer if there is still to much showing up. Take the bracers on your monk for an example. Only 2 stats that are a must on them for you are the dex and crit so that you can keep your dps. Cold resist is a waste because you are an arcane monk so do the search with out it. Str isnt a must you can replace it with armor. If there are to many options just add either arcane resist or all resist and maybe some vitality cause you need that. From that list you should find several upgrade that are priced at vendor and just place your bid. If you are able to check it before it expires to see if you have been beat out and want to try a higher bid then you have a better chance of winning. I did that with the boots I had and look at what I got for 10k. They are not bis but they gave me a very nice upgrade to what I had in dps, in vitality, in life per second, added posion resist which previous didn't have, plus I got the plus ignore durabilty loss so I will end up saving my 10k in repairs in no time at all.

Also if you just play you will get drops. My vile wards were the 2nd ones I have found and were an upgrade from the first ones I found. Most of the gear I have is gear I have found or cheap upgrade versions of what I have found. I spend most of the money I make from grinding or items I do sell on upgrading my gems and buying tomes and cheap gems.

If you think that making certain affixes cost x will fix the problem you probably have thought that the botters and flippers will just buy up the good drops and sell them through 3rd party websites for however much they want and people will just buy them through those sites and make it that much harder to get through the AH. There will always be greedy people and people who are going to pay to win. AH isn't the problem the people using it are the problem. Blizzard can't fix them.

This is a game meant to have some fun from time to time. If you are not having fun then why play.
Edited by AlucardIAm#1828 on 4/16/2013 12:48 PM PDT
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This is a game meant to have some fun from time to time. If you are not having fun then why play.


THIS X 1,000. It's a game, enjoy it and don't let other players tell you what is fun or how you are "doing it wrong".

In my experience playing completely self-found is fun as well as playing with AH gear. They are fun for different reasons. The only thing I haven't tried is playing with my credit card because I feel like I would be overpowered and the game wouldn't be a challenge. Maybe when I "retire" from D3 I'll become AH Tycoon and flip gear for kicks.
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Same problem here OP.
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I stopped playing about a month or two after release, and then returned about a month ago. So I skipped several patches and came back with about 1 million gold and a monk that couldn't clear act 2 inferno before, but could farm MP1 act 3 after.

I have finished leveling one character of each class to level 60 and honestly have been having alot of fun. However, there are certain issues for me regarding the AH and gearing that frankly, made me quit playing before, and are slowly driving me away right now.

Basically, my point: How in the world am I supposed to be able to afford anything?
a) leveling a character, and buying gear lower than level 60. It's nearly all exponentially more expensive than crappy level 60 gear. Because no one lists it. The only people who buy it already have lots of gold, apparently.
b) The items that drop mostly will not sell on AH. In a month of farming inferno I've made only a couple of million off of items (if that). I list by searching for similar items and posting reasonable prices. I even leave the opening bid at vendor to encourage people to buy. I only save rares with prime stat, vit, resist all, + whatever. And I keep rings/amulets/off-hands with IAS, CC, or CD (among other well-rolled rares). Almost nobody is buying stuff that isn't "best in slot". So I can't get any drops to sell (let alone use myself), and I can't sell anything to buy any gear.... essentially I can't do anything except keep hoping for that one great drop that I can sell for a billion gold and finally fund my characters. Playing Diablo 3 is worse than playing the lottery. I feel I have a better chance of hitting the powerball jackpot.
c) One way of making money would be to flip poorly listed items. But if I'm not working in BiS items, this is very risky and my pool of funds is too small. So I can't work in BiS items because I don't have enough gold, and flipping non-BiS items is pointless because even well-rolled items sell only ~few times per week, and I don't have enough gold to invest in a long-term buy/re-sell process.
d) Searching for items on the AH is insanely frustrating. Searching for upgrades for one character in all slots can take over an hour. And there are alot of possible stats that aren't available to search for in a slot, even though legendaries can roll that stat. And there are still some stats that just plain aren't searchable. So I can't compare to the item have equipped (or want to sell). If I wanted to try to make money flipping items, I could imagine spending 5+ hours a day in order to actually do it well. And then I would promptly hate/quit the game.

Solutions:
1) One possible solution is to just wait until the new patch drops and lots of people come back to try out the new changes. Then there will be more people posting way-too-low prices and more people paying way too much for rares. This is an unreasonable solution because it alienates the people who are playing the game in the "downtime" of population in between patches. It fails to address any of the underlying problems that are leading me to post this in the first place.

2) Saved search criteria. Please, for the love of (something), let me save the search criteria I just spent 10 minutes refining in order to find gear that I both want and can afford. Without forcing me to pop open good-ole' Excel on another computer.

3) Essentially, it seems to me the current state of the economy is that:
a) people who made a ton of money early on see no problem with the economy because they have a ton of gold.
b) people who get lucky with a BiS legendary make a bajillion gold off of someone who already had a bajillion gold.
c) people who just came back to the game have no reasonable way to make money or gear up, as compared to the above people, except to just keep farming and hoping for the above-listed lucky legendary drop. Essentially you can play the game without picking up any rares and you're probably better off. This just seems silly.

4) experimental thoughts:
a) Certain items are sold the same way as gems and recipes. I want a wrist with 100 Dex, 75 Vit, and 50 AR. Those items start at ______ gold. Extra affixes add varying amounts to the cost. IAS may be a __% increase per point. CC or CD also a __% increase. Increasing those stats by x% increases the cost by y%. But the costs are set by an analysis of recent trading trends. This analysis is difficult, but can certainly be done. This would decrease the price of items listed in this way (presumably blues and yellows), which would naturally cause the prices of legendaries and set items to be more reasonable (by reasonable in this case I mean hundreds of millions of gold, as opposed to billions).

b) Items listed with a certain optional setting would automatically be vendored for 2-3 times the vendor price (or more, if more incentive is needed) at the end of their auction period. This encourages lower-level items to be listed while leveling and encourages listing of more intermediate level gear, while also providing a source of increased income rate for people stuck in the "in-between" phase I currently find myself in.

c) why is crafting still so much of a money sink? I'm not spending a percent of my entire current bank account to craft an item that could get 5 useless affixes. My mind is still blown how horribly inefficient crafting is; and this is compared to the inefficiency of the AH, which means that on an absolute scale of inefficiency, crafting just made my head explode.

I'm open to suggestions for what I'm doing wrong, of course, but I hope I've provided a clear indication of what is giving me that slow feeling of "getting ready to quit Diablo again".


FML where to begin!!!!

Firstly, Are you seriously asking to have earnt a few hundred million gold after just 2k elite kills? How many hours do you expect to have to play this game in order to earn 1 billion gold?

In your opening sentence you state you played this game on release and stopped playing a month or 2 afterwards. At the time you couldn't clear act2 but after coming back you have now got gear which can clear mp1 act3. I hope you remember that when this game was released people like you were moaning that inferno was too hard to complete (as if you were expecting to clear this level a few months after relase with less than 50 hours played). Blizzard listened to "you" on numerous occasions and nerfed inferno to the ground which they then came back and buffed with mp levels. Anyway the point is that the primary reason you (or i for that matter because i was like you) couldn't clear act2 inferno onwards pre nerf was that we just didn't have the gear at the time. Look at the gear you are wearing now and remember back to a few months after realse. Your entire set you are wearing now could have been worth a billion gold back when you stopped. Obviously the game has carried on since you stopped played which has allowed you to gear up so you can do mp1 act3 for relatively low amount of gold.

So now you want to get BiS items but you do not want to farm for this. By farming that can either be killing monsters in game of flipping in AH.

So Blizzard then give you more plans to pick your primary stat to craft and thats STILL not enough.

For your information i've been playing D3 on and off since release day and I will agree that it does appear to be slow to generate gold. However I do not complain about it. I just get on with actually playing the game and just remain patient building up my bank. I also flip at the same time to generate extra gold. If i was going to complain, then my complaint would be idiots shouting so much that we have now got more BoA items in D3. This was a completely alien concept in Diablo 2 and it only existed in WoW. Diablo 3 feels even more like "WoW 2" than ever now.

One has to ask OP are you trolling us?
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TL;DR

my point: How in the world am I supposed to be able to afford anything?

I will say this, just do what a lot of players do. Pretend that the auction house does not exist. :)

Heh, what basically the US government is doing with the Health Care system the Education system, the financial sector and the employment market.

Seems to work for them nicely! If we ignore it, then it doesnt exist! That simple.
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Of course you can't buy anything, you have only played for a month or two. You answered all your own questions when you said you took a break for nearly a year. What are you, eight? Go farm and stop clouding up the forums with your tears.
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The problem here is that you have not played for a very long time, and yet you want to be able to afford the same items as players who have been playing non-stop. ¬¬.

Just farm some gold, you can buy gear that allow you to ROFLSTOMP inferno at lower mp's for almost no gold at all.

From then, farm your way up to the better gear and higher MP's.
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you can get gears for cheap and have a pretty good farming rate, i got my barb to 50.5% crit and 227% crit damage for about 6 mil gold, its pretty cheap and of course i found some cheap item on ah that shoulda been worth more, just gotta search, sometimes i would rather just play on the ah then farm

also account bound items are pretty good too
Edited by Thinh#1809 on 4/16/2013 2:29 PM PDT
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FML where to begin!!!!

Firstly, Are you seriously asking to have earnt a few hundred million gold after just 2k elite kills? How many hours do you expect to have to play this game in order to earn 1 billion gold?

In your opening sentence you state you played this game on release and stopped playing a month or 2 afterwards. At the time you couldn't clear act2 but after coming back you have now got gear which can clear mp1 act3. I hope you remember that when this game was released people like you were moaning that inferno was too hard to complete (as if you were expecting to clear this level a few months after relase with less than 50 hours played). Blizzard listened to "you" on numerous occasions and nerfed inferno to the ground which they then came back and buffed with mp levels. Anyway the point is that the primary reason you (or i for that matter because i was like you) couldn't clear act2 inferno onwards pre nerf was that we just didn't have the gear at the time. Look at the gear you are wearing now and remember back to a few months after realse. Your entire set you are wearing now could have been worth a billion gold back when you stopped. Obviously the game has carried on since you stopped played which has allowed you to gear up so you can do mp1 act3 for relatively low amount of gold.

So now you want to get BiS items but you do not want to farm for this. By farming that can either be killing monsters in game of flipping in AH.

So Blizzard then give you more plans to pick your primary stat to craft and thats STILL not enough.

For your information i've been playing D3 on and off since release day and I will agree that it does appear to be slow to generate gold. However I do not complain about it. I just get on with actually playing the game and just remain patient building up my bank. I also flip at the same time to generate extra gold. If i was going to complain, then my complaint would be idiots shouting so much that we have now got more BoA items in D3. This was a completely alien concept in Diablo 2 and it only existed in WoW. Diablo 3 feels even more like "WoW 2" than ever now.

One has to ask OP are you trolling us?


I agree with some of your criticisms of my post and have discussed it throughout the thread.

I suppose my main complaint isn't in going from 1-2 million gold to hundreds of millions. It's in going from 1-2 million to 30-40. The ways to do this seem to be:
1) Flip items on the AH. This would be my preferred way, in all honesty, except I hate the format and information on the AH. I present some possible solutions to this.
2) Get lucky on a drop that's worth about this much. My expectations on how often I get lucky were unreasonable in the OP.

I would prefer there was more of a middle ground, where items of around 50-100k value were easier to sell, and you could build up a steady amount of money. I have 2 tabs full of these items, items that I have recently bought and am trying to re-sell, and items that I've farmed. I have 10 items listed 24-7 and to put it plainly, it is not a reliable way to build income.

Essentially, the only option that is reasonably left for me (and in my opinion, new players coming into the game) is to get lucky. Either with a drop, or by religiously watching the AH for a poorly listed item. I think there should be a way for steady farming of intermediate value items to increase wealth more quickly than simply vendoring.

People will come in and say "but I sold this and this and this this weekend". I'm selling a few items a week too. Maybe the itemization changes where less items drop but each one has better base stats will help keep the market from being flooded.

Thanks for the post, and sorry my OP is a bit of a rambling combination of real issues and misconceptions.
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why are you flipping only low items? ~ if i am to flip an item i would make sure i make atleast 1m gold + on the profit, which i have done several times buying item in the 250k-500k range

also flipping item is a risk cause the items does not always sell at a profit
Edited by Thinh#1809 on 4/16/2013 2:38 PM PDT
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04/16/2013 02:33 PMPosted by davinci
Either with a drop, or by religiously watching the AH for a poorly listed item.


Man you have to be so quick with this though. I don't have the patience, would rather be farming.
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you can get gears for cheap and have a pretty good farming rate, i got my barb to 50.5% crit and 227% crit damage for about 6 mil gold, its pretty cheap and of course i found some cheap item on ah that shoulda been worth more, just gotta search, sometimes i would rather just play on the ah then farm

also account bound items are pretty good too


It's my general nature to want to play the AH too.... I just can't stand the D3 AH. That's a big part of my point in posting this thread, is feedback on the whole process of searching for things on the AH. Not just one time, but repeatedly.... so much time is wasted inputting parameters that I've already done a thousand times.

For instance, I have a legendary sitting in my bag that I want to sell. I click search for similar items. No stats are automatically inputted to search for. So I have to either a) flip back and forth between search and sell tabs in order to see what stats my item has, or b) keep all my items in some spreadsheet somewhere in order to determine their search parameters every time.

And even if I do this, there are still many items that have varying amounts of certain stats that are NOT searchable for the slot that the item is. It's maddening. Every time I buckle down and decide to work the AH I almost quit D3 altogether.

The developers say they're interested in feedback; this is my feedback. If people don't like it, sorry. I think it's a reasonable complaint.
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why are you flipping only low items? ~ if i am to flip an item i would make sure i make atleast 1m gold + on the profit, which i have done several times buying item in the 250k-500k range

also flipping item is a risk cause the items does not always sell at a profit


Because I don't have enough gold to risk on items at that value, because no one is really buying items that are only worth a couple million gold very often. I don't have the capital to take that risk, and it's a long term investment because you have to wait for the item to actually re-sell.
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Davinici: I'm on EU server with 350 hours on my barb with 35M gold picked up. I have probably spent the same amount of time in GAH/RMAH to be holding total 1B gold worth of gold + items.

The point is you just need to play this game a lot more. Get upto Paragon 50 on one of your heroes and then come back to us and tell us how much gold you made along the way. Also don't forget about the chance of drops being upgrades as well (anyone who says they have never found a single upgrade from drops is just a liar).

If you did follow my advice of just playing upto Paragon 50, i'm almost positive you would come back to this thread in a few months time and just delete it!!!

This game is a grindfest pure and simple. you just have to find ways to have fun whilst you're grinding your way up.

EDIT: from your posts above it seems like you're not using the GAH efficiently at all in terms of buying or selling. It's hard to teach someone how to use GAH in a post. I will say that it is possible to flip a 100k-200k upto 5m+ but it's rare. If you're flipping then you need to look for items where your flipping will generate a minimum 25% profit (pre tax).
Edited by QED#2412 on 4/16/2013 3:09 PM PDT
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no way I read all of that but...anyhow...You can buy great stuff for REALLY cheap in the AH all the time. You don't even have to camp at all. the thing is the super great stuff cost a lot of money. Not everyone can afford a Mercedes but at least in this game everyone can afford a good solid car, maybe just not the best.
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