Diablo® III

The Dual Wielders' Thread™

1. with RMB you NEVER pick up unwanted gray/white items

that looks good, I hate picking up whites when I'm clicking furiously

04/16/2013 10:00 AMPosted by gotaplanstan
The other thing I would suggest (if you're not already) is to become familiar with the "move" key, regardless of whether you prefer LMB or RMB.

Sorry I'm a noob but is this the shift key?
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04/16/2013 10:17 AMPosted by QHTran
Sorry I'm a noob but is this the shift key?

Nope, by default it has no binding.

Due to the last game I played on PC being an MMO, my left hand naturally gravitates towards WASD so I just bound it to "D". I rarely use my right hand for moving, its job is almost entirely just skills. It's a fun way of playing, with all 6 bindings on your mouse :p
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Thanks for the insightful information you gathered Fitz!

Provided in one clean and easy to read thread.

Will def take in-board the guide for future references.
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I probably fit into the Spender category, although I never managed to raise the gold to get a mace or spear in my MH. Still stuck with BS+EF combo.

Good job Fitz!
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Please, help me gear my monk better, i want to be able to do mp 9 -10 with friends and dont die too much, i dont need to have super dps(although would be nice), wanna be able to support them, thx.

I made this monk for TR, but i want to do higher mp better. I bought a main hand i think its decent and a cheap off-hand, should i get WKL, EF?

Help me out :~~

EDIT: almos forgot, i have 200-300 mil i can spend.
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A temporary fix would be to drop Mantra of Evasion: Backlash for Mantra of Healing: Time of Need. This would give you nearly 50k in EHP. You could then drop Resolve (relatively worthless) for Guiding Light and support your team with extra damage and healing.

Now, since you are an OWE user I recommend choosing your best piece of armor and then matching up the secondary resist on the other pieces to that. As of now you have arcane, physical and poison on differing pieces, which does not benefit you greatly.

Also, your dps is a bit low for an SoJ, and the TR CC chance on it is worthless to you. A good rare ring with resists would help you get over the EHP hump and possibly enable you to drop OWE in favor of another passive.

Use d3up.com and be sure to check EHP changes PRIOR to making purchases. Also, check out KamelJabber's sticky at top of this forum for helpful gearing guides.

Good luck!
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In terms of getting the right weapons, one thing that often gets overlooked is that the best stats to have on your weapons and other gear is actually dependent on whether you're going S&B, DW, or 2H.

If you're going dual wield, the main thing to remember is that you have two weapons. Seems obvious, right? But so many people focus on the DPS number on their weapon when that only affects half of your DPS. It's even worse if you've got a limited budget (99.9% of people with Monks) because raw DPS is often over-valued compared to CD and Dex. This has been fairly consistent in the AH since release. The reason is partially psychological (people like seeing BIG DPS NUMBERS), but also grounded in supply and demand: raw DPS benefits everyone, Dex benefits just Monks, and many people use only one weapon where their damage is proportional to it's DPS. There is often a huge psychological bias though: you can see how much more a 1001 DPS weapon sell for than a 990 one.

A simple example comparing the benefits... Say you've got two 1000 DPS weapons and you're looking for an upgrade. You've got 2400 DPS. Upgrading one weapon to 1100 raw DPS (+10%) basically gives you 5% more damage. This is the same effect as adding about 125 Dex. The Dex comes with other benefits, too (dodge, and often armor). Often the 1000 DPS, 125 Dex weapon is significantly cheaper than the 1100 DPS weapon.

I tend to think of 1 Dex = 1 DPS when looking at weapons for dual wielding. Obviously, run it through d3up or a spreadsheet for your exact case, but as a very rough estimate it's not so bad. Because of gems, I also tend to think of 1 Dex = 1 Vit, so I basically just add up the total Dex, Vit, DPS on the weapons to get a rough approximation of how good it would be for me. (There's a whole digression about Vit on weapons that we're just going to sidestep here... For me Vit on weapons is pretty much just as good as Dex. YMMV).

There's similar parallels for raw DPS and CD%.

Now if you're going for some sort of Wave of Light build that does most of it's damage with the main hand, all of the above applies, just slightly differently. It applies less to the main hand weapon, but much more to the off hand. (This is where simple DPS comparisons don't work and you may have to go more by feel, or worse a Vrkhyz-level speadsheet)

You also often buy slightly different gear to be effective dual wielding, particularly on your jewelery. One thing that you'll generally have the opportunity to get plenty of is CD%. 300+ CD% on your weapons is certainly a possibility. But if you're not using a shield, you're forgoing CC%. So you're going to need to make sure you can get as much of that as possible. If you had been using a shield, you'd be starved for CD%, and you'd almost certainly not want to use an amulet without a lot of it. Dual wielding, you can get away with less CD% on your amulet, for example, if it comes with very high CC%. Obviously high numbers for both would be better (duh), but you really need to try and get CC% everywhere you can.

Average damage on rings and amulets typically benefits dual wielders the most. It's often the most cost-efficient way to raise your DPS. The reason for this: because you need to focus more on stats other than raw DPS (as described above), your weapons typically have less base damage than a S&B-er or 2H-er. So +damage modifiers of jewelery represent a larger percentage increase in damage for you. (This is another benefit of focusing on Dex over DPS on weapons: your jewelery will benefit you more).

OK... that was more than I intended to write... I'm cutting myself off...
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@Nameless,
Do bells proc fear frequently? Or is it at a reduced proc rate?

If my LS EF is on my OH, and I'm dropping 5 bells in quick succession, I don't see it triggering fear at all because WoL only uses MH weapon. At least, that's what I understand. That's why I advocate DSing to the packs, and spamming FitL and then 5 bells without a single punch... to eliminate any possibility of fear during the bell spam.
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Proc rate on Bells = 11%

If the EF has 10% Fear than you have a 1.1% chance of fearing.

I think Nameless may be right though. I have never seen a Bell fear a pack ever and I drop them by the thousands.
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@fitz -- thank you for giving a shout out for this build. I finally got one (this one- http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aUeSXk!bUX!abacYa) together that I like to play (piece milled it) from several threads over the past several weeks, so thank you for getting it here. I wish that I would have found this earlier, it would have saved a lot of time and gold! In any case, I MUST say that, with the right weapons and a bit of focused attention on timing, MP9 solo play is a "day in the park" and MP10 ubers are easy with the right crew (have never tried to solo an uber run).

The only changes I have been making are my MH weapon. I have a LS sword with 150ish dex and 1050ish DPS, 64%cc and 110% gem that I swap out when ground affixes get crazy, but otherwise, the build on my profile is it. I have been thinking about dropping OwE, but from what you have written here, perhaps I should just start looking for average damage on my jewelry(?) I purposely gave up attack speed in favor of CC and CD and I got razed a bit because of it...but, it doesn't seem to matter.

@demniwraith, you input here is confusing me a bit...are you saying that CC is more important than average dmg? I think that I am maxed out on CC (w/o Inna's belt) and, so far, I haven't found any rings or ammy's within my budget (w/o sacrificing CC or CD or any stats currently on my stuff). Should I keep looking to add average dmg, if so, what, if any, sacrifices should I consider? My profile is http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/XxMOOSExX-1730/hero/25573356.

Thanks to both of you and keep up the great work!

xxmoosexx
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If my LS EF is on my OH, and I'm dropping 5 bells in quick succession, I don't see it triggering fear at all because WoL only uses MH weapon. At least, that's what I understand. That's why I advocate DSing to the packs, and spamming FitL and then 5 bells without a single punch... to eliminate any possibility of fear during the bell spam.

ahh I c that's good to hear... hmm for my nivarna build I have to get some punch in ... though not as much as a normal build ...
ahhhhh I hope that I win the EF but I don't want to regret a bad buy ... hopefully the gameplay will be okay lol

hope that you got your last bid in this morning = )
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Thanks OP
For the comparison on Emerald vs Ruby.
I always wonder about that.

Awesome write up.
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@Moose

If you can afford to drop OWE and you plan on using the Hybrid Cookie/Nirvana build I highly recommend you drop it. It will knock the cooldown on Infused by 3 seconds, which will boost edps by a ton.

Further, I am confident that once you practice enough with the synergy you will never look at the cookie again and end up in more or less same place I am with my build, in which case the cooldown reduction is even more important.

To each their own though! Let me know how you make out and be sure to check this guide for help with CountFury's find! http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8414571665
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@demniwraith, you input here is confusing me a bit...are you saying that CC is more important than average dmg? I think that I am maxed out on CC (w/o Inna's belt) and, so far, I haven't found any rings or ammy's within my budget (w/o sacrificing CC or CD or any stats currently on my stuff). Should I keep looking to add average dmg, if so, what, if any, sacrifices should I consider?


Yes, CC is probably the most important of the "quad" stats (CC/CD/IAS/Avg Dam). This is especially true for DW Monks when compared to S&B Monks. I was trying to describe how the relative importance of the stats changes depending on your weapon type. Generally, I'm assuming similar well spent budgets for each Monk.

For example, a ring with 5% IAS / 40 avg dam in place of 14 Avg Dam / 35% CD on your ring would be a DPS upgrade for you. It very well might not be an upgrade for a shield-using Monk who was using that ring because he has more need for the CD.

A shield-using Monk would also greatly prefer your main weapon to your off hand. If you upgraded your off hand to another weapon like of your main hand, you'll only gain about 2% DPS. A S&B Monk using upgrading from your off hand to your main hand might gain as much as 9% DPS, because the raw DPS improvement benefits him much more than you.

In fact, another weapon like your off hand but with 50 more Dex would be a DPS upgrade over your main hand. A Monk with a shield would still get more DPS from your main hand over that 153 Dex off hand.

That's the sort of thing I was getting at.
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04/16/2013 08:35 AMPosted by Fitz
Q. Do I have enough armor/resists/ health?

And don't forget to talk about higher mitigation = higher effective sustain. Mitigation > HP if you had to choose between two items that yields the same EHP amount.
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04/16/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Nameless
Q. Do I have enough armor/resists/ health?

And don't forget to talk about higher mitigation = higher effective sustain. Mitigation > HP if you had to choose between two items that yields the same EHP amount.


Good point! Will do.
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I have being playing with this build for a couple of months now and i like to share it with the monk community... I called it a "one man's army", great for group's play and multiplayer.... The strength of this build is, you alone will buff the whole party for an extra 64% damage buffs ( MOC+awe + guilding light ) and also boost your own dps by using by using combination strikes... The build might be a bit hectic for some monks since i drop serenity but i found that i have better survivability with Cyclone strike with Soothing Breeze rune.. ( you need this skill to get guiding light to work) ....

Here's the build if people want to give a try...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#abfSYk!gfX!acccca
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@Immortal
I will put that under hybrid builds. Thanks!
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04/16/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Fitz
For this build, a high average damage weapon will ensure you drop bells that hurt. These typically include spears and maces. The offhand weapon should provide support for your main hand with high dexterity, critical damage, and possibly sustain.


Finally some1 who knows what they are talking about. The number of people who keep saying fast weps>slow weps for monks regardless of build is astounding. Great guide!
Edited by Pvtpyle#1299 on 4/16/2013 3:26 PM PDT
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Spender Builds = Maces/Spears + Stat Stick Offhand
A Spender Variant: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#adeSXk!bUX!YbbYba

The strength of this build revolves around bursting down elites and large groups of monsters with AoE damage.

For this build, a high average damage weapon will ensure you drop bells that hurt. These typically include spears and maces. The offhand weapon should provide support for your main hand with high dexterity, critical damage, and possibly sustain.

I think that the best kind of stat stick support is an LS EF with ChD or OS. It ups the bell output of the MH because of the +APS (that allows you to have and it gives you sustain (and the option of dual LS if you feel the need down the road). If you can get something with lower fear (<12%), it'd probably be even better. For the average DW monk, it will give you >0.8 more bells -- 3/4 of the way through the animation during the 3s FitL window, maybe enough to complete the 829% weapon damage portion of the bell.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 4/16/2013 4:03 PM PDT
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