Diablo® III

HotA (Hammer of the Ancients) FAQ

on a lighter note, silver should give me the set skorn because if he does i will sexy gogo dance in some hot depth diggers for it :D
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Is there any merit to using hota/ww in lower mp for those on tight budgets?

What got me thinking about this is the my recent critpo. I wondered if a DW hota setup with only 2-3 slots of IAS could get by with an IK helm. CC is so important to this build that it demands either both rings have CC or one ring and the helm.

Maybe someone could chime in that has a better idea of what a 5mil set can farm in terms of MP that includes elites. I'd be curious if a 5mil ww/hota/rend set could outperform it. I have a feeling the necessary EHP for hota might make it not cost efficient at lower gear tiers. I haven't built a budget double nado set in quite some time. I'm guessing 5mil can make a double nado set that can do alk runs on mp 3 in around 10mins.
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I am glad to see this thread has a lot of useful info and I am also glad that people are using it to ask for help. I am a bit disappointed at some of he crap that has creeped its way in. I have to admit, Corgon, as soon as you posted your first comment I thought things were going to take a downhill slide. I have had minimal exposure to you but there seems to be a common trend. No one hates you. Let's all move on and leave it in the past.

Not all of my past posts are sunshine and lollipops. I think most of us are guilty of saying something dumb at least once.

Anyway, in terms of efficiency, it must say something to you that I do not typically farm above mp8 with my tDPS. If you look at effective increases in MF, exp and essence drops, it really isn't any more than 10% per level. This game is not about content but more geared towards the treasure hunt. Efficiency should be a primary concern if you want better gear. If not, then you should not complain about having no gold.

I am on my iPhone but if anyone really wants a breakdown of how much each mp level effectively increase MF, exp and essences I can break it down. Though it is just a matter of doing some math and most of you have probably already figured it out
Edited by KillerElite#1853 on 4/23/2013 7:38 PM PDT
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I'm obviously no expert but I'm fairly confidant a budget double nado set would outperform a hota build if for no other reason than mobility.

HotA, as you stated, requires face tanking which requires too much EHP to really consider for low tiers...

I think that's why there's an army of WW barbs out there LOL
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@Zaknaril

This is one time that Corgan probably should speak up. In another thread I challenged @storm to build a set for 25 that could farm mp5 and he did it using WW. After listening to Corgans usual rants he then challenged him to do it for 10m and he did do it with a HOTA build and provided videos as proof. I can't say that it outperformed WW but it I'd work pretty well.
Edited by KillerElite#1853 on 4/23/2013 7:45 PM PDT
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Is there any merit to using hota/ww in lower mp for those on tight budgets?

What got me thinking about this is the my recent critpo. I wondered if a DW hota setup with only 2-3 slots of IAS could get by with an IK helm. CC is so important to this build that it demands either both rings have CC or one ring and the helm.

Maybe someone could chime in that has a better idea of what a 5mil set can farm in terms of MP that includes elites. I'd be curious if a 5mil ww/hota/rend set could outperform it. I have a feeling the necessary EHP for hota might make it not cost efficient at lower gear tiers. I haven't built a budget double nado set in quite some time. I'm guessing 5mil can make a double nado set that can do alk runs on mp 3 in around 10mins.

Grats on the critpo, I'm jealous. That's an interesting idea. I'll try to put something together. I used to do ww/hota a long time ago with dual wielded maces. At the time it cost around 100m, but a setup like that is probably doable for around a tenth of the cost. The tdps, and consequently breakpoints, aren't as important with such a build because you only need sprint/ww for mobility, not damage. My intention was/is to make some videos of different HotA builds at different levels of gear, but I haven't had the time.

I also added two builds/videos from det0x and BangkokCanuk utilizing the rolling thunder rune. Bangkok's build does not use wotb. I think an efficient cheap set would likely be the same way. Maybe 5-IK+unforgiving for perma sprint:marathon.
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@Zaknaril

This is one time that Corgan probably should speak up. In another thread I challenged @storm to build a set for 25 that could farm mp5 and he did it using WW. After listening to Corgans usual rants he then challenged him to do it for 10m and he did do it with a HOTA build and provided videos as proof.


Rant Mode: Off
Efficiency Fight: Concede
Sunshine Mode: On

"The force can not help you unless you use it"

I built an MP9 suit that could take out elites in about 30 seconds for 100 mil. To get a 1 minute kill avg on MP10, it would have cost 200 mil. In every set I've tried to build, HOTA seems to be the cheapest. They aren't efficient builds though. No sprint. Just good/def+survivability and enough DPS to take out elites. Budget builds can't be efficient at high MP levels. Takes too much DPS
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i tried using a crap ik helm and 2 rare 1.2aps weapons on my female barb and could not stay alive in mp5 even with superstition. With only 2 slots of IAS I was hitting the 1.82 bp so that was not an issue. Kill times were decent but EHP wasn't enough. I even subbed in some rare pants with big vit and 60ish AR. I'm thinking at this gear level dropping the SOJ for a cc/str/AR ring might make some sense.

Any farming build that doesn't incorporate sprint is going to be slower even with faster elite kill times. It will also cause slower trash kill times since it lets you drop big aoe damage. HOTA is too slow to kill trash.
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On low MP, thunderstrike based hota builds are pretty effective as you'll be able to one-shot trash, triggering the stun proc which has a large aoe that will also proc into the fray for massive fury generation. In my experience this skill is the most effective at keeping up wrath of the berserker on low MP.
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This thread actually made me want to try the hybrid build again so I did, and I actually like it a fair amount, except getting started can be a pain.

What is the best way to get enough fury to get Battle Rage on? Because once you have that your obviously golden.
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@Dark

idk what everyone else does, but i usually run up to the first mob and let them hit me lol. i just spam br and once i get it, i start ww/rltw. when i get enough fury i pop wotb, and its a wrap :)
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One quick tip --

HotA/WW hybrid builds are not particularly efficient at either elite smashing or trash killing. But they do both in the same run relatively well.

One way to make it feel more efficient/less clunky is to drop MP 1-2 levels. Trash will die just as fast, and elites will die much much faster with HotA.
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That's what I figured. Just let trash beat on you for a bit lol. And yeah this build works pretty well, except it can be a pain to keep hammering against a single target. Even with my -5 to HotA SoJ, I still run out of fury. And that's a little awkward.
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Is there any merit to using hota/ww in lower mp for those on tight budgets?

What got me thinking about this is the my recent critpo. I wondered if a DW hota setup with only 2-3 slots of IAS could get by with an IK helm. CC is so important to this build that it demands either both rings have CC or one ring and the helm.

Maybe someone could chime in that has a better idea of what a 5mil set can farm in terms of MP that includes elites. I'd be curious if a 5mil ww/hota/rend set could outperform it. I have a feeling the necessary EHP for hota might make it not cost efficient at lower gear tiers. I haven't built a budget double nado set in quite some time. I'm guessing 5mil can make a double nado set that can do alk runs on mp 3 in around 10mins.

Dammit, I should have read your post more carefully. Nevertheless, here's a bizarre 5M 2h non-ww set I put together really quickly and one really sloppy act 3 alkaizer run in around 11 minutes. You'll be able to tell easily that I haven't done alk runs in forever and that I don't understand the gear or build very well. I overdid the whole fury generation so much that wrath is impossible (ready for the upcoming nerf!), and it doesn't need a fury generator at all without sprint or ww...probably embarrassing myself big time with this but it was fun.

http://youtu.be/GMKXqyOmQUs

After I recorded this, I reread your post and tried dw WW/rend/HotA with a blade of the warlord mainhand. Worked beautifully but I don't have time to record/show it atm.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 4/23/2013 11:19 PM PDT
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After watching the challenge I have tried Hota, but run out of fury.
I switched WW for hota. Also replaced IK boots with Ice Climbers which did affect fury.

Given my mid range? gear, what suggestions could you make.

I am after new gear but so far have not found much to update. have 300Mill

If you can fit 7% IAS onto your gloves, you should be in decent shape to use WW/HotA. Otherwise, you have the crit chance, and decent attack speed for HotA, so a lot of it will be a matter of practice. Without a HotA reduction ring, you will need to bash in order to keep your fury topped off, as HotA will not do the trick on its own.


@Silverfire
Thanks for tips. It certainly is practice with Hota, am improving slowly. Not to make excuses, but I have lost fine motor movement in my left hand due to parkinsons so keep bash/Rend on mouse for quick response and hope i can last until fingers catch up. WW was easier to control but lacked Uber kill dps.

I am after gloves and helm to improve ias/dps/ehp, just waiting until a drop or AH item turns up. hate the AH.

thanks again
Edited by Eribuss#6380 on 4/24/2013 1:17 AM PDT
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One quick tip --

HotA/WW hybrid builds are not particularly efficient at either elite smashing or trash killing. But they do both in the same run relatively well.

One way to make it feel more efficient/less clunky is to drop MP 1-2 levels. Trash will die just as fast, and elites will die much much faster with HotA.


how is HoTA/WW hybrid build not "not efficient"

the only difference my pure DT/WW build and HoTA/WW hybrid build is Overpower:killing spree, and pure DT/WW sucks at killing single elites and goblins.
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That's what I figured. Just let trash beat on you for a bit lol. And yeah this build works pretty well, except it can be a pain to keep hammering against a single target. Even with my -5 to HotA SoJ, I still run out of fury. And that's a little awkward.
Change your weapon to mighty weapon or use Unforgiving as your passive and problem solved.

If not, the only difference between -5 hota and -2 hota is around 3 strike before you need to regenerate your fury. How do I know when I don't have -5 hota? Ans: Animosity.

With Unforgiving(or Animosity[not so beneficial in your case since you are using axe]), mighty weapon and -2 hota soj give me more than 10 hits(probably close to 20) on single target.

I would love to try a -5 hota sometimes later and see if I can keep a 100% uptime hota w/without using unforgiving.
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@silverfire
Thanks man, Im definitely gona try no fury generator build.
As for -hota soj, I got about 65m atm, and for that much I seen -4 hota +15 fury +25(maybe even 27) elite dmg SoJ.
My goal is to beat kulle+sb on mp10 more easily - there were cases when I died from spike damage via sb pickup+non-crit rend, or when SB did 'double-grip" and rend wore off whereas I was getting 2 sets of Kulle casts, AND there were cases when wotb fell off and I died in globe - due to couple back-to-back double-grips.
Now Im at a hard choice what to upgrade next - buy soj or get some EHP or maybe CC upgrades - get AR on gloves, AR or CC from lacunis, or some stats + armor on chest...
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Just thought that I share a Hota build (not mine) that can work well. It was called dual hammer iirc.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fZPURc!ZYf!bZcbYZ

It involves using Weapon throw to damage/stun elites at range while moving towards them to Hota. This is especially strong when fighting against pesky range elites such as A1 & A3 keywarden, shamans etc.

Note that your main damage source is still Hota and not WT. (It will be very tempting to spam WT all day but it's really a low damage fury generator). This weakness of this build will be the loss of one passive skill.

The stun from the Weapon throw can also make Uber fights easier as you can easily interrupt their attacks. The 50% stun will allow you to fight at ubers at difficulties beyond your item level.

Only equipments needed for is IK belt and SoJ with minus WT cost and -7/8 wt is sufficient for normal play.

On a sidenote, I did try a -3 hota/29% Hota SoJ last week and timed my Ghom run to test its effectiveness. For what the SoJ is worth, I have to say that it didn't improve my time by much vs a standard 29% SoJ.
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@Spyky That build does work great for ubers. Used it myself a few months ago and loved it for the simple fact that could just stunlock kulle and not have to run around chasing him.

I haven't seen anybody in this thread mention -hota skull grasps. HoTA DPS goes way up if you can keep a maxed out fury globe, which opens the door for the Berserker Rage passive. I'm currently loving the !@#$ out of -9 HoTA from a skull grasp and SoJ pair and recommend others give it a try.
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