Diablo® III

the only problem with 100% wotb

04/26/2013 02:43 PMPosted by RagingKoala
Agree. Archon at least gets frozen and vortexed and generally messed up despite it's huge armor and dps buff. Actually you must stand there and channel so you're very vulnerable. Barb doesnt have that problem.


*hands tissue*


good thing you have tissue, you'll need it soon enough
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04/26/2013 02:43 PMPosted by RagingKoala
Agree. Archon at least gets frozen and vortexed and generally messed up despite it's huge armor and dps buff. Actually you must stand there and channel so you're very vulnerable. Barb doesnt have that problem.

Your right! The basic WW barb set-up faces an opposite issue from any ranged class. While a Wiz, WD, DH can continue to hit targets while say jailed, the ww barb needs to be constantly close to his targets else he dies.
A ww barb vs jailer/arcane/ w/e skeletal archers(ranged elite/champ) with no cc breaking ability? Really?

*hands tissue*

good thing you have tissue, you'll need it soon enough


There's no need for tissues on either side of the issue. Once the "issue" is looked at closely and examined logically, the realization is that there is no really issue.
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Yeah, I played DH since start, but getting barb nerfed isn't going to make DH any better.

Sadly Blizz games are a constant nerf/buff roller coaster in hopes of achieving perfect balance among classes.

Good thing about Diablo is that I can roll a new class, be 60 in a couple of weeks and keep on enjoying this game.

yeah well, no. The issue is that I want to play the class that I like, not reroll all the time a new character because Blizzard cant figure out how to make their game right.

And the class I enjoy is the barb.

And before someone jumps in about how "OP" it is, shut your mouth. Because I am sick of this, I really am.

I am playing a damn two hand barbarian since almost the game started. Do people even know how BRUTAL Inferno was to meele classes? And that was with almost everyone using shields and one hand weapons. And now imagine how it was with twohand weapons before they got buffed to be a bit more viable. Most one hand weapons could even outshine them ... And twohand weapons are STILL far behind dual wield. I see the Perma WOTB I have so much fun with, as a form of compensation by Blizzard for the really BAD time I had with the game when it was still totally unbalanced and more then just frustrating. It took some of us, a long time and a lot of playing to get the characters as far as they are now. People should not forget that.

It is really amazing how people complain about it that probably never played those classes. Or they have some kind of selective memory.

When they decided to nerf the Wizard and DHs to the ground, it proved that it did very little to improve the game as whole. Hence Inferno was nerfed hard as well. Instead of reworking the item and class system where it was needed.

And now, we might see the same cycle repeating it self ...
Edited by CrniVuk#2227 on 4/26/2013 3:53 PM PDT
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Yeah, I played DH since start, but getting barb nerfed isn't going to make DH any better.

Sadly Blizz games are a constant nerf/buff roller coaster in hopes of achieving perfect balance among classes.

Good thing about Diablo is that I can roll a new class, be 60 in a couple of weeks and keep on enjoying this game.

yeah well, no. The issue is that I want to play the class that I like, not reroll all the time a new character because Blizzard cant figure out how to make their game right.

And the class I enjoy is the barb.

And before someone jumps in about how "OP" it is, shut your mouth. Because I am sick of this, I really am.

I am playing a damn two hand barbarian since almost the game started. Do people even know how BRUTAL Inferno was to meele classes? And that was with almost everyone using shields and one hand weapons. And now imagine how it was with twohand weapons before they got buffed to be a bit more viable. Most one hand weapons could even outshine them ... And twohand weapons are STILL far behind dual wield. I see the Perma WOTB I have so much fun with, as a form of compensation by Blizzard for the really BAD time I had with the game when it was still totally unbalanced and more then just frustrating. It took some of us, a long time and a lot of playing to get the characters as far as they are now. People should not forget that.

It is really amazing how people complain about it that probably never played those classes. Or they have some kind of selective memory.

When they decided to nerf the Wizard and DHs to the ground, it proved that it did very little to improve the game as whole. Hence Inferno was nerfed hard as well. Instead of reworking the item and class system where it was needed.

And now, we might see the same cycle repeating it self ...


Compensation? You kidding me?

1st barbs were the biggest ones crying about dhs and you know they nerfed us multiple times and buffed ummm barbs, so maybe people complaining will do the same thing that happened to dh. Compensation? Wheres the dhs compensation, we have been on the bottom of the pile alot longer than barbs have since game launch.

I find ironic that the class that had the biggest threads to nerf dhs are now the biggest ones complaining they they might get one.it didnt even happen yet.

You know i dont want barbs nerfed, i want to be buffed back to my normal self before they over nerfed us. So tired of seeing these threads, barbs are the most opd class, thanks to a bunch of whining and crying last year, you played a barb, did you forget so soon?

Maybe barbs do need to be nerfed not once but twice, to see how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot, this way in the future maybe they wont start another nerf movement.

Yeah yeah yeah crymore
Or
Your name fits

Come original.

Sucks when the nerf hammer is looming above your head, doesnt it?
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04/26/2013 04:39 PMPosted by Crymore
I find ironic that the class that had the biggest threads to nerf dhs are now the biggest ones complaining they they might get one.it didnt even happen yet.


I'm not calling you a liar.. but can you actually prove that it was only and primarily Barbs asking for the perma-ss to be nerfed?

I keep seeing that statement, I really would just like clarification on the matter.
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I disnt say barbs were the only ones, but they werethe biggest advocates. At that time the 2 classes were toally swapped with barbs being the bottom and dhs being the top.

Im sure there were other advocates too, just like now. Look at all the threads, everyone is calling for a neef for barbs, read most dh threads. We arent asking for barbs to get nerfed, we just want some love back, a little to much was taken
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[quote]
And before someone jumps in about how "OP" it is, shut your mouth. Because I am sick of this, I really am.


And I, and most people, are sick of barbs being so hideously OP. All you idiot barb-mains that come in here pretending your class isn't OP are genuinely stupid people.

IT IS THE ONLY CLASS WITH 100% UPTIME CC IMMUNITY. ENOUGH SAID.

And NO I don't want barbs nerfed, I want other classes buffed so we can also pull off a build with 100% CC immunity. But you IDIOT barbs need to stop pretending your class isn't hideously OP right now, because it is, it's just a fact whether or not you want to admit it.
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And I, and most people, are sick of barbs being so hideously OP. All you idiot barb-mains that come in here pretending your class isn't OP are genuinely stupid people.

IT IS THE ONLY CLASS WITH 100% UPTIME CC IMMUNITY. ENOUGH SAID.

And NO I don't want barbs nerfed, I want other classes buffed so we can also pull off a build with 100% CC immunity. But you IDIOT barbs need to stop pretending your class isn't hideously OP right now, because it is, it's just a fact whether or not you want to admit it.

To you above me, I suggest reading my post again.

04/26/2013 04:39 PMPosted by Crymore
1st barbs were the biggest ones crying about dhs and you know they nerfed us multiple times and buffed ummm barbs, so maybe people complaining will do the same thing that happened to dh. Compensation? Wheres the dhs compensation, we have been on the bottom of the pile alot longer than barbs have since game launch.

yeah ... only barbs. Not the community. There have been no WD players complaining that they had, maybe just a couple of skills that barely worked in Inferno. And of course monks as meele character had not deal with it either.

Seriously. What do you expect from people, to sit still see their characters getting destroyed in Inferno, while Wizards and Deamon Hunters farmed act3 and 4?

The way how you talk about it it sounds like the DH would be now some kind of totally unplayable character that cant beat anything even with the best of the best gear which cant get even past the white trash mobs in MP0. Give me a brake ok. I do even agree with you that there are discrepancies between the classes and builds. But we are nowhere near that mess Inferno was in the begining. Thx god. The game at least improved SOMEWHAT here.

By the way, as long as you dont have some hard data to back that up with, I would suggest to drop those bold statements that mean nothing anyway like "barbs cried the most for nerfs!" as it would be just as stupid like saying now that DHs want to destroy barbs or something like that. This is doing NOTHING else then to fuel the hate some people have against other classes for what ever reason. I will never understand this attitude anyway. Are we not all playing ONE game? What has been achieved by the nerfs to the Wizard and DH in the past? has it somehow improved the gameplay for the Monk, Barb and WD? No it hasnt. All it did was making a lot of people quit the game.

All I want is to see people have FUN(!) with their classes. Is that so much to ask for? That includes Barbs just as it does Deamon Hunters or Witch Doctors.

You want to hear my "barb" opinion? By someone who loves the class?

They can nerf WotB as much as they want. It will NOT change ANYTHING in the end, because there will be still 3/4 of the skills useless because they cant even COMPETE with the powerfull ones. Like the Ancients or Earthquake, leap or furious charge etc. People will simply drop WotB for Overpower, if they have too, gaining pure DPS, as its more or less the next "OP" skill in the line. Whirlwind and Hota are pretty much the only choices you have with skills as well because those dont come with cooldown times. And WW allows you to gain a lot of movement because it is very to get surounded.
Edited by CrniVuk#2227 on 4/26/2013 6:07 PM PDT
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And I, and most people, are sick of barbs being so hideously OP. All you idiot barb-mains that come in here pretending your class isn't OP are genuinely stupid people.

IT IS THE ONLY CLASS WITH 100% UPTIME CC IMMUNITY. ENOUGH SAID.

And NO I don't want barbs nerfed, I want other classes buffed so we can also pull off a build with 100% CC immunity. But you IDIOT barbs need to stop pretending your class isn't hideously OP right now, because it is, it's just a fact whether or not you want to admit it.

To you above me, I suggest reading my post again.

04/26/2013 04:39 PMPosted by Crymore
1st barbs were the biggest ones crying about dhs and you know they nerfed us multiple times and buffed ummm barbs, so maybe people complaining will do the same thing that happened to dh. Compensation? Wheres the dhs compensation, we have been on the bottom of the pile alot longer than barbs have since game launch.

yeah ... only barbs. Not the community. There have been no WD players complaining that they had, maybe just a couple of skills that barely worked in Inferno. And of course monks as meele character had not deal with it either.

Seriously. What do you expect from people, to sit still see their characters getting destroyed in Inferno, while Wizards and Deamon Hunters farmed act3 and 4?

Youre talking about it, like the DH would now some kind of totally unplayable character that cant beat anything even with the best of the best gear. Give me a brake ok. I do even agree with you that there are discrepancies between the classes and builds. But we are nowhere near that mess Inferno was in the begining.

By the way, as long as you dont have some hard data to back that up with, I would suggest to drop those bold statements that mean nothing anyway like "barbs cried the most for nerfs!" as it would be just as stupid like saying now that DHs want to destroy barbs or something like that. This is doing NOTHING else then to fuel the hate some people have against other classes for what ever reason. I will never understand this attitude anyway. Are we not all playing ONE game? What has been achieved by the nerfs to the Wizard and DH in the past? has it somehow improved the gameplay for the Monk, Barb and WD? No it hasnt. All it did was making a lot of people quit the game.

All I want is to see people have FUN(!) with their classes. Is that so much to ask for? That includes Barbs just as it does Deamon Hunters or Witch Doctors.

You want to hear my "barb" opinion? By someone who loves the class?

They can nerf WotB as much as they want. It will NOT change ANYTHING in the end, because there will be still 3/4 of the skills useless because they cant even COMPETE with the powerfull ones. Like the Ancients or Earthquake, leap or furious charge etc. People will simply drop WotB for Overpower, if they have too, gaining pure DPS, as its more or less the next "OP" skill in the line. Whirlwind and Hota are pretty much the only choices you have with skills as well because those dont come with cooldown times. And WW allows you to gain a lot of movement because it is very to get surounded.


Actually i do not think dh is an unplayable character, while alot of dhs up and left, look at my profile. I adapted. But i do not want to hear some bull crap about compensation because barbs were weaker at launch than dh.
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You are comparing wrath to skills that make you immune to damage...


Spirit walk doesn't make you immune to damage.
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Perm 20% move speed
Perm 25% attack speed
Perm 20% dodge
Perm 10% critical hit chance

All this is fine and balanced for just 1 skill slot? Really OP?
Other classes would have to give up 5+ skill slots to equate those bonuses without CC immunity.

The whole issue lies with the duration.
This skill is supposed to be overpowered but only in short bursts. That's the only way you can justify the ridiculous amounts of bonuses and impact it has on the gameplay.

Cap ToC at 30 seconds and it'll be in line with the other runes.
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Perm 20% move speed
Perm 25% attack speed
Perm 20% dodge
Perm 10% critical hit chance

All this is fine and balanced for just 1 skill slot? Really OP?
Other classes would have to give up 5+ skill slots to equate those bonuses without CC immunity.

The whole issue lies with the duration.
This skill is supposed to be overpowered but only in short bursts. That's the only way you can justify the ridiculous amounts of bonuses and impact it has on the gameplay.

Cap ToC at 30 seconds and it'll be in line with the other runes.


30 second length, 90 second CD and 75 fury per second added. That would probably force at least 30 seconds in between and that's with 2 1 handed weapons. I also think that all runes except ToC should have CC immunity. This way, you get the bonuses for longer but you don't keep the CC.
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...Is people talking about it.

CC is a joke, and if you think that's why Wrath is good, so are you.
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This is the problem with this community asking for nerfs instead of buffs.

After a barb nerf, look for the next most powerful ability and complain.

-.- is this even competitive gaming.

Why are classes competing with one another to be in a dominant spot.

Barbs are seriously fine. They still lack of build diversity.

Monks have way more build diversity. And Monks have innate cc immune if played well getting high dodge(especially dodge monks) can literally be not frozen, not fearful of chains of fires(yes you can dodge chain of fires).
add in serenity and boom 3 seconds of further cc immune and absorb dmg.

Barbs on the other hand, rely on WOTB then goes down to long cd. And the main reason why some ppl can perma is probably depending on monster density and its passive boon of bul kathos.
CC immunity is fine. Working as intended.

CC immunity on both melee classes. allows them to be in the heart of the battle and not see a bunch of frozen orbs and a few arcane orbs and walk away from fight!!! and kite around like a ranged class.

As i mention the rationale of WOTB. It is for Barbs to break cc and generate fury against elites. Barbs has degenerated resource system if not in a fight.

I myself have monk and barbs and i played both of them. In fact i Like Monks better =)
Edited by URBER#6794 on 4/26/2013 6:56 PM PDT
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[quote]

They can nerf WotB as much as they want. It will NOT change ANYTHING in the end, because there will be still 3/4 of the skills useless because they cant even COMPETE with the powerfull ones. Like the Ancients or Earthquake, leap or furious charge etc. People will simply drop WotB for Overpower, if they have too, gaining pure DPS, as its more or less the next "OP" skill in the line. Whirlwind and Hota are pretty much the only choices you have with skills as well because those dont come with cooldown times. And WW allows you to gain a lot of movement because it is very to get surounded.


Let me start by saying I've played Barb since launch, and will continue to regardless of any changes that come down the pipe...

Perma WoTB isn't required to do anything in the game, but oh boy does it makes life much easier... I can still solo mp10 ubers using Insanity instead of Thrive on Chaos, but it takes longer and Siege/Kulle are significantly more difficult because the time slow bubble actually works when not in WoTB...

With perma WoTB I use WC:Impunity and Berserker's rage, because I can keep 100% fury the vast majority of the time with the 10% CC and 25% AS from WoTB...

Without WoTB I use WC:Impunity and Tough as Nails, because I can't keep 100% enough without the 10% CC and 25% AS from WoTB... oh and the extra mititgaion doesn't hurt when you are in a time bubble with Siege smacking you around, taking reflect damage, with the occasional rocks falling on your head...

See that's the power of WoTB, we get the massive DPS boost from WoTB plus we have the option to go more offensive in nature and not really lose any survivability. So in the end things will change, because going 100% dps with little to no thought on EHP would not make you effecient at farming high MP...

Let me ask you this, without the buffs of perma WoTB would you be able to efficiently farm MP10 with 5500 armor, less than 400 all resists, 42k hit points, and only 3% life steal...

Runes would have to be modified to give us something for CC, maybe change one of Ignore pain to break CC... with the same usefulness as serenity
Edited by Shango#1124 on 4/26/2013 7:16 PM PDT
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Perm 20% move speed
Perm 25% attack speed
Perm 20% dodge
Perm 10% critical hit chance

All this is fine and balanced for just 1 skill slot? Really OP?
Other classes would have to give up 5+ skill slots to equate those bonuses without CC immunity.

The whole issue lies with the duration.
This skill is supposed to be overpowered but only in short bursts. That's the only way you can justify the ridiculous amounts of bonuses and impact it has on the gameplay.

Cap ToC at 30 seconds and it'll be in line with the other runes.


This argument is not correct - so let me at least correct your misunderstanding. You do not get permanent increases in dodge, crit hit and ias with just wotb. The key is that it works in conjunction with other skills and gear. In order to maintain wotb I need a skill the increases my movement speed, another two that easily fills up my fury globe. Wotb is an effective build but, it is a build, by itself it is simply a temporary buff. So its not a one button permanent buff as you are stating.

And here's the thing its actually fun to play. As a newer player to barbs I enjoy the meta game of rushing from mob to mob and trying to keep the buff up for as long as I can. Blizzard should be trying to replicate this idea with other classes but it really adds something to the class.

I think of it like lh demon hunters way back after the nether tentacle nerf. That was a build that required some specifics in gearing and a compliment of certain skills. It was fun to play and stupid of Blizzard to destroy.
Edited by Velkroe#2891 on 4/27/2013 8:55 AM PDT
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Perm 20% move speed
Perm 25% attack speed
Perm 20% dodge
Perm 10% critical hit chance

All this is fine and balanced for just 1 skill slot? Really OP?
Other classes would have to give up 5+ skill slots to equate those bonuses without CC immunity.

The whole issue lies with the duration.
This skill is supposed to be overpowered but only in short bursts. That's the only way you can justify the ridiculous amounts of bonuses and impact it has on the gameplay.

Cap ToC at 30 seconds and it'll be in line with the other runes.


This argument is not correct - so let me at least correct your misunderstanding. You do not get permanent increases in dodge, crit hit and ias with just wotb. The key is that it works in conjunction with other skills and gear. In order to maintain wotb I need a skill the increases my movement speed, another two that easily fills up my fury globe. Wotb is an effective build but it is a build, by itself it is simply a temporary buff. So its not a one button permanent buff as you are stating.

And here's the thing its actually fun to play. As a newer player to barbs I enjoy the meta game of rushing from mob to mob and trying to keep the buff up for as long as I can. Blizzard should be trying to replicate this idea with other classes but it really adds something to the class.

I think of it like lh demon hunters way back after the nether tentacle nerf. That was a build that required some specifics in gearing and a compliment of certain skills. It was fun to play and stupid of Blizzard to destroy.


This.

I wish people would stop saying it is one skill slot and perma wrath. Perma wrath requires at least 3 skill slots (i use 4 pretty much sprint and frenzy for the extra hits/itf procs on single target) and enemies that dont die too fast, meaning it is not permanent except in certain situations and with over half of your skills taken. On low MP forget about it. I lose it frequently during sk/maghda too because of having to joust king walk or maghda when shes in a corner and drops a beam nearby. For me it isnt permanent at mp8, idk about 9 i never play it, and i know i can keep it going at 10. So, for at least 8 mp levels and with 4 skill slots taken it isnt 100% uptime.

If we are going to have a discussion at least be realistic about what it takes to keep it going.
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