Diablo® III

the only problem with 100% wotb

lots of people fail to realize that wotb is a 15 second skill.
if you're cc for any part of that, you break the skill.
this is why wotb should be immune to cc. stop your crying.
toc works exactly the way its supposed to. gain fury to extend time.
the skill works the way it was intended.
barb synergy WORKS. skill A feeds skill B which feeds skill C, yada yada yada
all the other classes needs tweaking.

stop crying about what we have. make a fuss about what you DONT HAVE.

i find it ridiculous that people cry about a skill that doesn't affect their class in any way.
if you like a class, be that class. if you dont like a class, dont play that class.

beating dead horses... just leave this topic alone already.
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But thats not going to happen, because people made up their mind and for some reason after 1 year after release, they are on a crusade against WotB.

I guess its simply pure frustration. Its clear that Diablo 3 has a lot of issues with certain builds and classes. If my build would not have seen any changes after 1 year still beeing mediocre simply because of the skill or gear you chose, then I would be frustrated as hell as well. Just comparing dual wield DHs with those using Manticores for example. Curious how long they still want to left that unchanged, where Dual wield cant even get close to the Manticore. And the same is true for twohand weapons with the other classes where dual wield or one hand + surce is king.

The WotB is just a valve to get steam out. If WotB would be not around people would go over to the CM Wizard or Monk complaining how they are "the bestest char and totally OP!!"

I mean take the history of this forum. Just a couple of months ago you would see every day 2-3 topics pop up how "OP" the CM wiz is.
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If you do a search of "nerf dh" or "nerf range" and sort by date in the general discussion, you can see that a lot of barbs/monks were the ones QQing for nerfs a year ago. It's ironic how the tables have completely changed. Back then it was the melee who wanted class balance and the ranged who were saying "buff weak classes, don't nerf strong classes", "how would nerfing us help you kill any faster or survive better", "stop your crying and L2P", etc.

I find it fascinating how there was a complete 180 and both sides are using the other side's arguments from a year ago.
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If you do a search of "nerf dh" or "nerf range" and sort by date in the general discussion, you can see that a lot of barbs/monks were the ones QQing for nerfs a year ago. It's ironic how the tables have completely changed. Back then it was the melee who wanted class balance and the ranged who were saying "buff weak classes, don't nerf strong classes", "how would nerfing us help you kill any faster or survive better", "stop your crying and L2P", etc.

I find it fascinating how there was a complete 180 and both sides are using the other side's arguments from a year ago.


Since you only have classes to go on it's not strange at all.

These are not people or ideologies, they are just classes in a game.

It's very likely the same people who wanted DH nerfed back then want Barbs nerfed today. They are haters and they are not restricted to a class.

The fight is between 2 different philosophies, not 2 different classes.

Philosophy 1 thinks buffing the weakest classes is the best way to balance the game.

Philosophy 2 thinks nerfing the best classes is the best way to balance the game.

So it's NOT restricted to class at all.
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If you do a search of "nerf dh" or "nerf range" and sort by date in the general discussion, you can see that a lot of barbs/monks were the ones QQing for nerfs a year ago. It's ironic how the tables have completely changed. Back then it was the melee who wanted class balance and the ranged who were saying "buff weak classes, don't nerf strong classes", "how would nerfing us help you kill any faster or survive better", "stop your crying and L2P", etc.

I find it fascinating how there was a complete 180 and both sides are using the other side's arguments from a year ago.


Since you only have classes to go on it's not strange at all.

These are not people or ideologies, they are just classes in a game.

It's very likely the same people who wanted DH nerfed back then want Barbs nerfed today. They are haters and they are not restricted to a class.

The fight is between 2 different philosophies, not 2 different classes.

Philosophy 1 thinks buffing the weakest classes is the best way to balance the game.

Philosophy 2 thinks nerfing the best classes is the best way to balance the game.

So it's NOT restricted to class at all.


No, if it were the case of the same people asking for nerfs a year ago and today, then why is it that almost nobody who uses barb as a main is asking for nerfs to wotb and no dh/wiz a year ago were asking for nerfs to force armor/ smokescreen/ nether tentacles?

This basically boils down to a turf war. People who have something good don't want to give it up and people who don't, want to either be buffed or drag the haves down with them. The pattern is exactly the same a year ago as today, just that the actors have switched sides.
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You people are nuts.... WOTB is insanely OP. I really dont know how that is up for debate. The damage buffs alone are ridiculous. It gives 25% IAS. That's 3 pieces if IAS gear on any other class. Oh, yeah and CC immunity. Please stop saying it is not stronger than any other skill that any other class has, which is by definition over powered.

As for should it be nerfed... that is the question. I personally think so, because if you simply buff the other classes than you get power creep, and all content becomes faceroll. If you nerf the most op skill in the game a little and buff the worst skill in the game, then eventually you get to a point that the ONLY people able to faceroll the hardest content are the people that put in the time and effort, which is a much more rewarding experience for all.

tl;dr: then you are lazy
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lol

Some of the people complaining here simply don't know what they're talking about. Why are you complaining about the way the classes were balanced 5 months ago? In what way is that relevant to anything at all?

Barbs are strong, but not because of WotB. WotB isn't overpowered because it's relative to the rest of a barbs stats and it's nearly impossible to keep up permanently unless you're playing on an MP so high that your farming is slow as !@#$ unless you've dumped a couple billion into your gear. Hell, even with WotB up it's sprint that does the vast majority of the damage. Barbs are strong, farming wise, because of their insane speed bonuses and the fact that WW goes through monsters, which are the only reasons WotB works even as well as it does.

To my point that WotB isn't overpowered - Wizards roflstomp WotB builds. Archon *is* WotB without the speed boost. You're looking at the crit % upgrade and the IAS upgrade - don't. Look at the DPS upgrade and then compare it to the DPS upgrade from Archon. Then look at the fact that Archon is the strongest single ability in the game when geared correctly and shares the same timer based thingy as WotB. The only drawback on Archon has been that it's only viable in solo play, and that's getting fixed in the next patch. Even still, you don't hear Archons complaining about uptime because 90% uptime is easy for under 20mil. But even if we didn't have archon, Wizards can solo MP10 on 10 mil because of our freeze build called the CM/SNS build. The number of abilities and passives we can stack that are synergistic with this build is nuts. Plus we can take, literally, zero damage from 3 elite packs at once if we know what we're doing. Hell, it works better on 3 elite packs than it does on 1. We so completely dominate that we negate every affix because elite packs, from the moment we cast our first few spells to the moment they die, can't cast anything. Can't even move. Explain to me how that doesn't smash the idea of WotB. And for the person above that said wizards got nerfed into the ground, that's what forum whiners said until about a week after the patch. Then we found out that we were just as strong as ever. CM/SNS has been nerfed 3 times and so far it hasn't changed a damn thing except slightly higher LoH and APOC requirements. Our build is so OP it's Blizzard proof (crosses fingers, knocks on wood).

I think WotB needs a buff, but something very subtle, assuming it should be brought into line with Archon. Maybe drop the fury requirement to 20 and make it so that fury generated past max fury still counts towards that 20. Make this buff a passive so that it takes up what could otherwise be an important slot. ezpz.

tl;dr - Wizard basic builds stomp WotB for no more than 10 mil and make Wizards nearly invulnerable to damage.
Edited by Shelrabbi#1366 on 4/27/2013 1:55 PM PDT
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If you do a search of "nerf dh" or "nerf range" and sort by date in the general discussion, you can see that a lot of barbs/monks were the ones QQing for nerfs a year ago. It's ironic how the tables have completely changed. Back then it was the melee who wanted class balance and the ranged who were saying "buff weak classes, don't nerf strong classes", "how would nerfing us help you kill any faster or survive better", "stop your crying and L2P", etc.

I find it fascinating how there was a complete 180 and both sides are using the other side's arguments from a year ago.

That is something you assume, not something you know, unless you did a serious study, investiagting ALL the posts that cried for nerfs, looking what class they played at that time, then I think your statement here is pretty much meaningless.

Yes, a lot of people asked for CHANGES, thats a BIG difference here! Its a forum, and usually you will remember those that cry the loudest. Thats normal. Becaues for example, even thoug that I had the feeling something was "wrong", that Dhs and Wizards played the highest difficulty while Barbs, Monks and Wds got totally destroyed I have not opened every day a topic crying for nerfs, nerfs and more nerfs. if SOME skills require a rework, then I am ready to discuss that, the pros and cons. I am not so narrow minded to close my self from logic arguments. But I would have rather seen a rework of certain aspects then just a simple "nerf". For example that both the monk and barb got 30% more defence as meele characters was a GREAT move in the RIGHT direction. It didnt touched Dhs and Wizards in ANY way, but helped meele characters to survive, because they had no other chance then to simply gear for the damage. And the damage back then was brutal. It simply is not fun to kite with an meele character ... it never was.

A lot of people cried for nerfs, thats sure. Just as they do now. But I think the community as whole is like that.
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Ok pHkaty is here, waiting for lysergia anytime now -_-
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Actually, the only problem with 100% wotb is that its frigging hard to pull off :p

People see '100% wotb' or '100% archon' and think its a joyride. These are the most demanding things to manage in this game.
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30-35% CC, 75k or so DPS, MP1 = 90% uptime Archon.
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monks and dh have cc immune .
It's called dodge.
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monks and dh have cc immune .
It's called dodge.


Combined with immunity skills, 50% dodge can be OP also.
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Perm 20% move speed Perm 25% attack speed Perm 20% dodgePerm 10% critical hit chance All this is fine and balanced for just 1 skill slot? Really OP?


No not at all actually... instead of being ignorant about a topic you must first consider skills of other classes.. and a prime example is Monk with Conviction/Overawe for up to a total of 48% increased damage to all enemies within range! All of barbs buffs together in any form do not hit this amount of damage increase. Yet no one complains about Overawe. On top of this they can combine it with things like Breath of Heaven with Blazing Wrath rune and gain an additional 15%, let alone adding even further things like Deadly Reach for 18% more damage and Combination Strike passive on top for 8% more... you see this together is "OP" but no one cares. Because every class is meant to have something OP.
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You people are nuts.... WOTB is insanely OP. I really dont know how that is up for debate. The damage buffs alone are ridiculous. It gives 25% IAS. That's 3 pieces if IAS gear on any other class. Oh, yeah and CC immunity. Please stop saying it is not stronger than any other skill that any other class has, which is by definition over powered.

As for should it be nerfed... that is the question. I personally think so, because if you simply buff the other classes than you get power creep, and all content becomes faceroll. If you nerf the most op skill in the game a little and buff the worst skill in the game, then eventually you get to a point that the ONLY people able to faceroll the hardest content are the people that put in the time and effort, which is a much more rewarding experience for all.

tl;dr: then you are lazy


People like yourself are the reason these topics exist in the forums at all... There is such a missconception around WOTB its sickening.

Every class has skills that provide just as much or more output in damage than WOTB.

The only thing "OP" about WOTB is CC immunity and the only reason its there is because Barbs have no other way to break free from CC like WD, DH, Monk, and Wiz has Diamond skin to absorb damage while CC'd, the closest thing Barb has to this is Ignore Pain which is a 30 second CD and only partial damage reduction!
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@OP

If they take away CC Immunity... then what does Barb have close to other classes? Nothing.
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My friend killed Diablo 3 days after launch with his "weak unbuffed" barb. Hope Barbs get nerfed because a bunch of noob cry baby kids play them, and this has been nothing but entertaining.
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04/28/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Legit
Every class has skills that provide just as much or more output in damage than WOTB.


Dude.... trying not to be too insulting here, but what planet so you live on? Have you looked at what wrath does? Even without the CC immunity it is far better than any other skill in the game (even unruned).

Now before you go all emo barb on me. I am not saying it should be nerfed. I am just saying that is over powered... you know.... cause it is.
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Yay another one of these topics! EXACTLY what I've been waiting for!
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Wheee!! This post made the front page again!!
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