Diablo® III

Watch Tower nerfed???

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04/30/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Grimiku
We wanted to make sure players didn’t feel like they had to farm that spot or else they’d be missing out


Classicn blizz spin
"There is an effective area for finding loot in a loot finding game?!'
"We will change that...."


I think this is a pretty simplistic way to view the situation, but I agree that having a favorite farming spot nerfed doesn't feel good. The alternative (in situations like this, where that spot is way beyond the norm) is that people feels forced into playing one tiny section of the game, and that's arguably worse for the health of the game overall.


While I appreciate that, the fact is people feel forced to farm the best part of the game no matter where that is. It is unavoidable, because in a game where you need 1,000,000 item rolls to get one usable item(not complaining, stating fact), the entire game is about getting more item rolls.
People always will just move to the new best.

whimsy is good? Nerf clouds
Road waypoint is good? - nerf all chests and goblins everywhere
Tower is good? - move it, then nerf it.

So right now there are 3 choices in a game with thousands of areas
Vota
Keeps 2
CotA

Rather than nerf them so we could find the new best place, the team has opted to buff the entire rest of the game... this is an awesome change, and the only one that makes sense. I am over the fact that previous attempts at getting us into other areas were nerfs, but I really really hope the dev team understands how much better their latest solution is.

If something is too good... Buff everything else. Always.
It's truly baffling how strongly blizzard doesn't want the players to farm well. It's not like you're limited in your ability to kill mobs. It's just that access to them is limited. They're even ruining the cool changes that were in the first PTR patch. Constant flow of large amounts of monsters? Hm, better than intended. Lets tone it down so that everyone STILL stays in act 3 because, even though it's not great, it's the best available.
cannot find Watch Tower since a long time....
is that being nerfed already???


The Watch Tower was changed because of how good it was compared to most farming locations. It benefited from having an abnormally high Elite density, resplendent chest spawn, and was located conveniently close to a waypoint. We wanted to make sure players didn’t feel like they had to farm that spot or else they’d be missing out, so in patch 1.0.5 we moved it from Northern Highlands to Southern Highlands with the idea that it would require spending some extra time to find it. Initially we didn’t want to nerf the dungeon, but eventually the Elite density was toned down anyway, and the tower remains in Southern Highlands.

To answer your question, though, parts of the Watch Tower were nerfed, but the chances for it (and the merchant) to spawn have not changed. I wish you good luck in your search for the merchant, but it’ll probably take a few attempts!


I kind of thought the Watch Tower was exactly what a random dungeon should be. Pre- Inferno nerf I ran a lot of A1, running the Watch Tower was always a bonus. I didn't only run the tower, I ran festering woods, CoTA, Warriors Rest, Leorics Manor then Watch Tower if it spawned then through warden and butcher.

Personally I don't think it needs to be changed unless you log in, clear the area then log off and repeat. Otherwise its just an added bonus.


I think this is a pretty simplistic way to view the situation, but I agree that having a favorite farming spot nerfed doesn't feel good. The alternative (in situations like this, where that spot is way beyond the norm) is that people feels forced into playing one tiny section of the game, and that's arguably worse for the health of the game overall.


While I appreciate that, the fact is people feel forced to farm the best part of the game no matter where that is. It is unavoidable, because in a game where you need 1,000,000 item rolls to get one usable item(not complaining, stating fact), the entire game is about getting more item rolls.
People always will just move to the new best.

whimsy is good? Nerf clouds
Road waypoint is good? - nerf all chests and goblins everywhere
Tower is good? - move it, then nerf it.

So right now there are 3 choices in a game with thousands of areas
Vota
Keeps 2
CotA

Rather than nerf them so we could find the new best place, the team has opted to buff the entire rest of the game... this is an awesome change, and the only one that makes sense. I am over the fact that previous attempts at getting us into other areas were nerfs, but I really really hope the dev team understands how much better their latest solution is.

If something is too good... Buff everything else. Always.


have you even tested the PTR yet?
Those 3 choices are still going to be the clear cut places to farm, nothing is changing
the mob density buff is damn near non exsistent.

If they roll out this patch with the current way 1.08 ptr is, its gonna be laughable

It's a3 and everything else still.
VoA and CotA have always been a side quest type farming area, nothing major like a3
Nothing else in this latest PTR build is even close to amount of mobs in those 3 areas.
There is hardly a noticeable buff at all and its vomit enducing to see players actually think something is about to change because blizzard said so lol.

There is hardly a noticeable change to mob density and I guaran-damn-tee you everyone will still be farming a3 after patch rolls out(unless they you know, actually buff mob density)
cannot find Watch Tower since a long time....
is that being nerfed already???


The Watch Tower was changed because of how good it was compared to most farming locations. It benefited from having an abnormally high Elite density, resplendent chest spawn, and was located conveniently close to a waypoint. We wanted to make sure players didn’t feel like they had to farm that spot or else they’d be missing out, so in patch 1.0.5 we moved it from Northern Highlands to Southern Highlands with the idea that it would require spending some extra time to find it. Initially we didn’t want to nerf the dungeon, but eventually the Elite density was toned down anyway, and the tower remains in Southern Highlands.

To answer your question, though, parts of the Watch Tower were nerfed, but the chances for it (and the merchant) to spawn have not changed. I wish you good luck in your search for the merchant, but it’ll probably take a few attempts!


It's sad, ever since they nerfed that place, I haven't gone looking for it.

This one time while leveling my hardcore monk to 60, I found it. Went in and found only 2 elites.

We wanted to make sure players didn’t feel like they had to farm that spot


Good job.
Edited by jonclau#1835 on 4/30/2013 1:37 PM PDT
"There is an effective area for finding loot in a loot finding game?!'
"We will change that...."


I think this is a pretty simplistic way to view the situation, but I agree that having a favorite farming spot nerfed doesn't feel great. We get that. The alternative, though, (at least in situations like this, where that spot is way beyond the norm) is that people feels forced into playing one tiny section of the game, and that's arguably worse for the health of the game overall.

I really wish more people understood this. =/

This is why zones like the Realm of Shadow and many others on the PTR needed changed.

Playing the whole game should be appealing and there shouldn't be these "Alkaizer routes"

Certainly, these efficient farming paths will indeed exist, but when they're better than everything else by leaps and bounds, it becomes an issue.

While some people might find running a simple route over and over again "fun", there are a great deal of players who would like variety in their play. This is why the density changes in 1.0.8 are so great because they add more variety to farming endgame. (Not to mention it actually gives me a reason to gather keys other than the Keys of Terror I've been stockpiling)

This is the exact reason Whimsyshire was also nerfed. When it gets to a point where one single zone / dungeon / act trumps all others in terms of efficiency, any desire for variety is squashed because the player would only be gimping themselves by doing something different.

This is why most of my friends have gone back to WoW and uninstalled Diablo III. Running Act III over and over again for loot they know they're never going to get bores them to tears. They play WoW because it's a much more complex and challenging game with much more variety. D3 can have the same level of variety and challenge, but currently with the way the game is set up doing anything remotely challenging or varied just isn't worth the effort invested.

I hope this is something that's considered in the future.
Edited by Drothvader#1215 on 4/30/2013 1:48 PM PDT
Hey, Grimiku, can we stop pussyfooting around? Let's kick the race to the bottom into high gear!

Since A3 is *clearly* still the best place to farm, you guys better nerf K2, Rakkis and Fields! You wouldn't want use to feel like we continue to have to farm there, you know, like we all have since about 3 weeks after release!

But wait! Now we're going to feel forced into farming Mines\VotA! Shoot, just preemptively nerf that too! Wouldn't want to make us feel like an area is fun and full of tasty mobs to melt!

Dang it! Now you've unfortunately left Festering Woods\CotA as just too good! Better tone that down, we wouldn't want people to be able to actually kill too much stuff in too short a time! We'd just be FORCED to have fun there!

Hmm, well, crap! Now its a nerfed A3 thats CLEARLY the best again!

Well dang it! What now??? I know! Just make the entire godforsaken game like Old Tristram Road directly out of town! A few pathetic zombies here and there! Wouldn't want us poor overburdened players feeling like there is anywhere fun and full of monsters.

Why why why cant you get it through your heads that there will ALWAYS be one area that is better than the others and players will gravitate to it? No matter what.

BUFF EVERY AREA UNTIL WHOLE ACTS ARE OVERFLOWING WITH MOBS - why can't that be done???

Oh right, that whole "balance for the AH" thing that Bashiok infamously talked about and is now talked around and spun at every opportunity.

God, its so disappointing.


I think this is a pretty simplistic way to view the situation, but I agree that having a favorite farming spot nerfed doesn't feel great. We get that. The alternative, though, (at least in situations like this, where that spot is way beyond the norm) is that people feels forced into playing one tiny section of the game, and that's arguably worse for the health of the game overall.

I really wish more people understood this. =/

This is why zones like the Realm of Shadow and many others on the PTR needed changed.

Playing the whole game should be appealing and there shouldn't be these "Alkaizer routes"

Certainly, these efficient farming paths will indeed exist, but when they're better than everything else by leaps and bounds, it becomes an issue.


Not just wrong, but patronizing and condescending too! Thanks for representing the playerbase so well, Droth!
In full agreement - don't nerf a zone, buff others as well. Act 3 was OK the first couple runs, now its just boring.

In my opinion, in inferno mode and +mp, all acts should provide equal mobs / experience. YOU get to choose where the adventure takes you.

EDIT: I'm really dissapointed in how much sh!7 talking is going on. Sure there are MANY things that irk me about the game (mostly from a UI / UX perspective, but thats probably because I'm a UX designer/developer) but straight up name calling and chest thumping towards the developers is asinine.

Blizzard - I love the game, in fact its the only computer game I play. Every patch is better than the last, and with 1.07 i think you've finally surpassed what you'd created in D2 LoD final patch. Keep up the great work! And good luck filtering through the dross of "feedback" I keep reading.
Edited by ioTus#1771 on 4/30/2013 2:00 PM PDT
I really haven't even seen that place at all since it was moved. I've just never gone out of my way to look for it as although it used to be good, the area it's in is (at least in 1.0.7) worthless; low density, with somewhat annoying mobs (like a little preview of A2). The only thing of interest in that map is the cart, which has a fairly static location. If I bumped into it, I'd probably go in, but you don't see it going for the cart.

Talk to Karyna - Beeline to Cart - Move to next area. No reason to look for that small dungeon unless you specifically need something from there.

The way it was before it was a bonus. I never farmed it specifically (that would be Sarkoth), it was just a fun bonus on the way to Leoric's manor. I loved it the way it was, it was exciting to see it.

On the subject of areas just overflowing with mobs, remember early in the game's life when Skycrown and Stonefort were just ridiculously dense? After A2 in particular, it was just so exciting. I loved it so much and one of my strongest memories from my very first playthrough is entering Skycrown on Normal for the first time. Just, wow.
Edited by Tiakatt#1643 on 4/30/2013 1:56 PM PDT
I used to love it when I would see the tower and would always hope I hit the jack pot on that second floor. That was so much fun and it was quick to get to, it wasn't far from the portal. I just wished it spawned all the time, now that would be so much fun.

How is this concept nerfable? Maybe there should be more dungeons like it. Also, up the skeleton at the cemetery up to 100% spawn. Make the density of Lyceum just like the "old" Watch Tower density and give it 100% spawn in a random place(kinda like VotA). Guarantee us 2 elites in Leoric's Manor and the pack just outside.

Man all those ideas sound like fun to me, it's no wonder I can't get into this game anymore. Give us more, don't take away.
Edited by Deadzors#1394 on 4/30/2013 1:56 PM PDT
Because of the AH .. they had to nerf nerf nerf those first few months ... they had to worry about the "economy" rather than the "fun" the players were having?

Who is hurt by an area like the watchtower that is easy to get too and had too many elite packs?

How come this was never noticed in testing? I mean it was pretty obvious .. VERY quickly after release that the watchtower was somehow "broken" and different. No one noticed this before release?

If it was never "broken" in the first place, the "nerf" wouldn't be an issue.

They didn't want people to "farm" bosses in Diablo 3 .. and they tried hard to prevent that .. their solution just shifted that farming to other things .. elite packs. So people will go where it is most efficient to get elite pack kills due to the NV stack bonus.

So their solution is to nerf "efficient" areas rather than look at a better solution .. which is to give a reason to do ALL the areas (besides the horrendous storyline)

I'd suggest something along the lines of the keywardens .. certain areas ... quests .. etc. that give you a "piece" of something that you need ..

Certain bosses drop specific loot .. certain dungeons have special drops ... (that you need to craft a bigger thing .. etc.)

If it wasn't for the keywardens .. I know I wouldn't touch Act I or Act II very much.
The BOA recipes were a step in the right direction too (the problem there is after a few days it is just much easier to buy them all on the AH rather than try and farm them yourself)
Edited by LastCrusader#1413 on 4/30/2013 2:05 PM PDT
The Watch Tower was changed because of how good it was compared to most farming locations. It benefited from having an abnormally high Elite density, resplendent chest spawn, and was located conveniently close to a waypoint. We wanted to make sure players didn’t feel like they had to farm that spot or else they’d be missing out, so in patch 1.0.5 we moved it from Northern Highlands to Southern Highlands with the idea that it would require spending some extra time to find it. Initially we didn’t want to nerf the dungeon, but eventually the Elite density was toned down anyway, and the tower remains in Southern Highlands.

To answer your question, though, parts of the Watch Tower were nerfed, but the chances for it (and the merchant) to spawn have not changed. I wish you good luck in your search for the merchant, but it’ll probably take a few attempts!


Are you kidding me the whole point of this game is to farm specific areas after we play the game. Just like in D2 everyone would farm Meph because that's where the best chance to get items was. Now that we have an AH and you people have to cater to flippers and bots this game is just a pile of crap. Why don't you just randomize the location and frequency of the spawn and the layout of The Watch Tower. No that's way too complicated for your crack pot of Devs to do because they're #*#%!#@!! footing around with lame band-aid fixes that you call a patch. I don't know what happened to the management structure after Activision bought out Blizzard but the quality of your products have gone down tremendously and every game you put out is based off of WoW. I don't know why the design team that made D2 and LoD weren't contacted to help out or at least advise the cracker jack team that worked on D3.

04/30/2013 12:02 PMPosted by Grimiku
I think this is a pretty simplistic way to view the situation, but I agree that having a favorite farming spot nerfed doesn't feel great. We get that. The alternative, though, (at least in situations like this, where that spot is way beyond the norm) is that people feels forced into playing one tiny section of the game, and that's arguably worse for the health of the game overall.


We're forced to farm one spot because whatever code the devs used or formula they used to create the randomness of dungeons and the layout is totally out of whack. It would be fun to farm different places with a butt load of Elites and a high mod density. What would really make everyone happy is if we can travel between acts without having to log out of the game and change quests. That way when players go to different acts each teleport is random. I'll admit I don't farm and the reason being is that there's no clear place that's a great spot and frankly I'm tired of Act III.
Edited by captmadcow#1827 on 4/30/2013 2:07 PM PDT
04/30/2013 02:06 PMPosted by captmadcow
Are you kidding me the whole point of this game is to farm specific areas after we play the game.

Is upset that Blizzard doesn't want people farming specific areas and would rather them farm tons of different places.

Is very upset that these specific farming spots are nerfed.

04/30/2013 02:06 PMPosted by captmadcow
It would be fun to farm different places with a butt load of Elites and a high mod density.

Very clearly states that they would like to farm multiple areas instead of certain spots.

04/30/2013 02:06 PMPosted by captmadcow
I'll admit I don't farm and the reason being is that there's no clear place that's a great spot and frankly I'm tired of Act III.

Upset that there isn't one specific spot but is tired of running the only act in the game worth running.

I'm confused, did I read something different than what everyone else read? I think maybe I did.
Edited by Drothvader#1215 on 4/30/2013 2:19 PM PDT
I used to love it when I would see the tower and would always hope I hit the jack pot on that second floor. That was so much fun and it was quick to get to, it wasn't far from the portal. I just wished it spawned all the time, now that would be so much fun.

How is this concept nerfable? Maybe there should be more dungeons like it. Also, up the skeleton at the cemetery up to 100% spawn. Make the density of Lyceum just like the "old" Watch Tower density and give it 100% spawn in a random place(kinda like VotA). Guarantee us 2 elites in Leoric's Manor and the pack just outside.

Man all those ideas sound like fun to me, it's no wonder I can't get into this game anymore. Give us more, don't take away.


I agree 100%. I came accross this tower recently when I was leveling up a new HC toon and it was like seeing an old friend. I loved this place. I used to run Cemetary, Woods, and then highlands and tower if it spawned. That was back when only GG players were in Act3 and most were stuck in act1 (1.03 i think). I LOVED that place and never got bored running it.

I hate running act3 so much now I want to puke.

Full act clears lol. That would be WAYYYYYY better Droth, lol. I would spend 1 hour trying to get someone in general to way point me past act2, event though I could clear it in a little more than that time, just to skip it and get to act3 when leveling a new toon to 60 in HC. And I have no love for act3 mind you, just really hate that full act2 clear sooooooo much.

Should have added MORE cool SMALL areas and spots like Watch Tower, with 100% spawn rate, not remove stuff.

Shame on you guys!
Gee, if they want people to farm more than 1 area, make clearing more content rewarding.

I don't like to pigeonhole myself into doing only a few area... I prefer full Act clear myself. However, when I do full Act runs, there's so many dead areas that you're basically wasting your time by trying to do a full clear.
The problem with full act clears is you HAVE to do things like save the dumb residents of Caldium from the green fireballs.

Man that got old the second time I did it. I do not enjoy that and yet I've done it probably 50 times.

Things like Watch Tower are the opposite of that in this game, you look forward to them.
The solution to nerfing?

If you find a good spot, don't tell ANYONE!!! Blizzard will nerf it into the ground.
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