Diablo® III

Upcoming Hotfix – EXP from Pets in The Scorched Chapel

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04/26/2013 03:54 PMPosted by Lylirra
As you said it yourself, dev team knew about it, released it live and I bet many ppl already exploited game mechanic, that was implemented in the client via official patch.


On the contrary, I said that we did not know about the bug when the patch went live. I'm not sure if that's better or worse in your mind, but it was issue on our end, and we’re already taking a look at our reporting processes to see how we can improve them to reduce the chances of something like this happening again.

We're not infallible, though, and we may not catch every bug or report, but we can always do better. It means a lot to us that players submit bugs and report exploits, and we want to make sure they're being utilized in the right ways.


The problem is not that you guys missed it. Mistakes can happen. The problem is: You guys are SLOW to fix those mistakes. Waiting couple of months for the next big patch etc is not a good idea.

It seems there is a reason why you guys are doing large batches of patches instead of smaller bits. But it is not in our benefit for sure.
On the contrary, I said that we did not know about the bug when the patch went live. I'm not sure if that's better or worse in your mind, but it was issue on our end, and we’re already taking a look at our reporting processes to see how we can improve them to reduce the chances of something like this happening again.

We're not infallible, though, and we may not catch every bug or report, but we can always do better. It means a lot to us that players submit bugs and report exploits, and we want to make sure they're being utilized in the right ways.


Lylirra,

Although I do not play WD and this issue has little to do with me, here I do want to express my view, since I feel this kind of things do have some serious negative influences on the game development.

Patch 1.07 was officially released on Feb 12 2013, after weeks of PTR testing. As you said, this exploit has been live since 1.07 PTR, so it was more than three months from now. As far as I know, many players reported this bug during 1.07 PTR, which were ignored or missed by the dev team.

Now this is what concerns me a lot -- it took you guys more than THREE MONTHS to fix a simple bug which many players reported. What disgusts me even more is your attitude on fixing this issue. You are not focusing on your own malpractice and issuing a sincere apology to the community, but you are shifting the blame to the players. Although players were not supposed to exploit bugs, it was you guys who created this bug and encouraged the exploitation by not fixing it.

Ironically, although there are well-enforced exploitation policy for players to abide by, there is no such things for the dev team. You guys can make mistakes without receiving punishment. As a result, it is perfectly okay for you guys to make mistakes and not to correct them. We accept that the dev team is not infallible, but ignoring bug reports and keeping a bug alive for more than three months is utterly intolerable.

Blizzard, as a successful enterprise, is expected to maintain a positive and healthy corporate culture, but this is not what I have seen from the lethargic and irresponsible Diablo 3 team.
On the contrary, I said that we did not know about the bug when the patch went live. I'm not sure if that's better or worse in your mind, but it was issue on our end, and we’re already taking a look at our reporting processes to see how we can improve them to reduce the chances of something like this happening again.

We're not infallible, though, and we may not catch every bug or report, but we can always do better. It means a lot to us that players submit bugs and report exploits, and we want to make sure they're being utilized in the right ways.

Does that mean it took you 5 days to come anywhere close to a solution, or did it take you 5 days to realize that it was immensely widespread?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1ct6y5/pvp_exp_bug_used_for_paragon_leveling/
On the contrary, I said that we did not know about the bug when the patch went live. I'm not sure if that's better or worse in your mind, but it was issue on our end, and we’re already taking a look at our reporting processes to see how we can improve them to reduce the chances of something like this happening again.

We're not infallible, though, and we may not catch every bug or report, but we can always do better. It means a lot to us that players submit bugs and report exploits, and we want to make sure they're being utilized in the right ways.

Does that mean it took you 5 days to come anywhere close to a solution, or did it take you 5 days to realize that it was immensely widespread?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1ct6y5/pvp_exp_bug_used_for_paragon_leveling/


Community Managers =\= Developers
Not only can this potentially lead to your account being penalized (depending on the situation)...


Why? Even if something is an exploit, why penalize players for exploiting an oversight made by the development staff? That's just bad business.

It doesn't matter if somebody power-leveled their way to p100 overnight using the exploit, no action should be taken against them.

I agree the exploit should be fixed, but in the grand scheme of things, it does nothing to hurt another player's experience... and "penalizing" a player for exploiting something that was available to exploit, and that harms no other player in any way, is just bad form, in my book.

Technically, the players who do this are still following the rules set forth by the game.. whether you intended for it to work that way or not is irrelevant.

And before anyone says "read the second post!" I have...

Bug Exploitation

Some bugs are minor and do not affect gameplay, but sometimes bugs can be used to provide an unfair advantage to certain players or negatively affect the game itself. An appropriate penalty for exploitation is determined by whether or not:

The exploit is performed intentionally, maliciously, or repeatedly
The exploit damages another hero or their gameplay
An attempt has been made to conceal the exploit's use


I understand points 1 and 3, but I think they coincide with point 2. How quickly another player levels Paragon does nothing to affect another player's hero, or their gameplay. It's quite possible to play the game entirely solo, never speaking or otherwise interacting with another player... and still get to p100. It has nothing to do with anyone else's gameplay experience.

One couldn't even argue that it has an effect on the economy, as the the last time I checked, harvesting zombie dogs yields no loot.
Edited by Telliks#1734 on 4/27/2013 1:20 AM PDT
04/27/2013 01:12 AMPosted by Telliks
One couldn't even argue that it has an effect on the economy, as the the last time I checked, harvesting zombie dogs yields no loot.


Yes, but the experience follows the player once they've left the Scorched Chapel. You could make a convincing argument outside of PVP, that the game is affected. (Increased MF/ability to farm higher MP, etc.)

This was a not a subtle exploit. The average player would have to know that reaching paragon lvl 100 in the span of a week is clearly not playing the game as intended. I don't believe this should be bannable, unless a player has steadfastly refused to comply once Blizz has awarded them a warning, but I would like to see the experience rolled back. However, I'm guessing due to the amount of time, effort and energy that would require, it probably won't happen.
One couldn't even argue that it has an effect on the economy, as the the last time I checked, harvesting zombie dogs yields no loot.


Yes, but the experience follows the player once they've left the Scorched Chapel. You could make a convincing argument outside of PVP, that the game is affected. (Increased MF/ability to farm higher MP, etc.)

This was a not a subtle exploit. The average player would have to know that reaching paragon lvl 100 in the span of a week is clearly not playing the game as intended. I don't believe this should be bannable, unless a player has steadfastly refused to comply once Blizz has awarded them a warning, but I would like to see the experience rolled back. However, I'm guessing due to the amount of time, effort and energy that would require, it probably won't happen.


You could also argue that the increased magic find is a moot point when the player using the exploit wasted several days they could have spent finding loot, doing nothing but gaining experience. Yes, the player now has increase MF/GF, but they're starting at a disadvantage over a player that worked their way to p100 legitimately, collecting gold and loot along the way.

Also, going from 60 to p100 wouldn't help you farm higher MPs. The game is entirely gear based... the +300 main stat from gaining 100 paragon levels is what, +3000 damage? That isn't enough to do anything, even when combined with increased armor, etc.

As I said, I also believe the exploit should be fixed, however I disagree with the idea of punishing players for exploiting an error/oversight made by the developers. Even if the developers has ruled it an exploit and said that they're fixing it.

What's next? Punishing players for farming scorpions because they're going to decrease their XP output with the coming patch?
Edited by Telliks#1734 on 4/27/2013 1:48 AM PDT

This issue was originally reported on our forums during 1.0.7 PTR testing; however, we unfortunately missed the reports before patch 1.0.7 was released, and as a result the bug went live. That was our error, so we'd like to give a big thank you not only to the players who reported the bug initially by posting, but also to those who helped bring it to our attention by contacting our Hacks team.


Interesting, wonder if they noticed this from Moldran's recent videos about exploits in video games (where he actually pointed out a poster that reported this exploit as early as January):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASMxsFQIYPY

And if so, that's really cool! I mean, regardless of what Blizzard is reading or watching... it's nice to know they are reading or watching something from the community (from Moldran for example, that'd be neat).

It's better than not reading anything from the community (whether it be famous streamers like Moldran or Athene) at all, so it's nice that it seems they do read/watch stuff from communities.

I haven't been keeping up with any discussions or anything on the forum lately, so the only reason I known about it is from Moldran's videos.
Telliks

I think you might agree that how much a player could potentially gain would depend largely on what time span they've been Paragon 100 using this method. Where we part company, is some exploits <this being one>, I place the onus on the player for recognizing that it's a game mechanic they should feel obligated to not abuse.
Just go abuse it, no one will get banned. They never have and never will ban people for using exploits, because it's their own fault.
How do you miss a bug report? Do you have people who are paid to go over these? Do you pay them?
Missing one bug report is fine but when it happens as many times as it have done and the fix only show up after the issue goes totally viral is not a mistake but neglect!

Wiz invulnerability, barbz(mostly) keeping all buffs they enter cutscenes with(did dmg in the millions to mobs who just got close to you, no need to even hit anything!) which made them just about as invulnerable as the wiz was but having edps maybe even billion times higher than intended. The hc deaths in pvp and now the XP issues again in pvp, all of it beeing reported months before and nothing done until the whole world was made aware of it trough fansites/forums/streamers.
I'm pretty sure there are quite a few more I forgot/don't even know about too.

Really reading the bugs forum may just be more profitable than playing ah tycoon, and let's face it at least someone should read that part of the forum...
Hopefully there will be bans or level reverts for this. Those of us who chose not to participate in this are penalized right now for not exploiting the game.
Using iLvl 63 items in Nightmare is ok though. The game is all about exploiting.
Edited by Techies#1508 on 4/27/2013 4:26 AM PDT
You thought that wds exploit was about exping?? You think wrong!!
Look at this
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728323101

You stoped goldskin and puzzle ring proc on scorched chappel after 1 week of 1.07 PTR lauch and you missed that??!!

chocoboos just add the nail to your coffin :(
Edited by melis#2460 on 4/27/2013 4:47 AM PDT
the problem here is that its not absurd to get this type of exp and anyone esp barbs can p100 in 4 days if they farm right. When Alkaizer got P100 it was alot harder than when Hunger got p100 in what was it 3 days? And it will be even easier in the upcoming patches to get gobs of exp.

How to get p100 -> mindlessly kill endless flow of mobs over and over and over.. you get the picture. The guy that powered it in 3 days just found a straight forward route, skipped anything that took time and racked up 150mil exp/hour solo.

with the WD thing you are still killing and endless flow of mobs, still zombies to the same monotony.

Give us a gauntlet style never ending dungeon. or one with walls closing in and turns so we have to keep it moving. Something else to keep it interesting.
one of the guy i know went from P20 to 92 in 2-3 days..
i play 3-5 hrs aday after work and had P70-80 took me a month..and it was painful n long... farrr out.. wat a good feeling. thanks blizzard
It's about time. I read somewhere that the exploit has been abused since mid-January. Typical Blizz work I guess, not paying attention to forum posts and total disregard for players reporting bugs unless a live-streamer does a video of it.
I didn't use this bug. But I am always interested in this. Basically it is blizzard made this game. Gamers have reported this for a long time. But blizzard just ignored it all the time. Was that a perfect misdirection to let gamers believe that this bug is a part of game instead of a bug? Now after more than one month, blizzard started to say this is illegal and would punish players who used this bug? People always say that customers are the gods for companies. But in this game, it seems that blizzard is the master and customers are slaves. Customers were never respected. They reported the bug, you ignored. They used it, then you punish them. From your regulations, customers have the reponsibilities of not using the bugs for benefit. Sure, I can accept that. But does Blizzard also have a reponsibility of fixing the bug asap and listen to customer's reports asap? If you don't take your reponsibility, why must the customers take their responsibility? It that fair? At the end, who pays whom money? Is that a funny story of treating customers like this? And from the very beginning, why did your game contain so many bugs? Is that the customer's fault? And that AH bug was reported for a long time. But blizzard can never successfully fixed it. Why did you stop the clock when Ah was down (either for error or for maintainance)? How many players lose billions of money because that clock went down during the time no one can bid? But it doesn't matter, from a master's perspective, the slaves should only provide money. And they did not need to be respected
Edited by KiraFreedom#1485 on 4/27/2013 5:14 AM PDT
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