Diablo® III

Gold cap and BoA Gear are now necessary.

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Great post by the OP. I heartily agree with the sentiments of: I would rather play an ARPG than a trading simulation/spreadsheet.

I don't really think a gold cap is going to work though. If you've ever been around the botter forums (I don't bot cheat or exploit but I get curious as to the methods) you'll see they also treat copies of the game client just like any other commodity. They hunt them on sale at reduced prices from third rate software shops and buy them buy the stacks, just another cost of doing business.

Therefore a botter/exploiter could have 20-30 times the gold cap of a normal player pretty easily because they're already prepared to eat this kind of overhead due to bans.
The sad thing is, that if we see that its not before the expansion.
On the subject of comparing WoW to Diablo.

It's not BoA vs. tradable items that makes Diablo Diablo to me, it's Baal, Mephisto, Diablo, Tal-Rasha and sacrifice in the face of the despair of humanity versus Hell on Earth. It is about the engineering of a custom (That means different than one or two cookie cutter builds) demon killing machine to be the light in the darkness. (The skill system could use some more depth....now nothing is better than RF for DH for instance.)

Also: bring Cain back, he deserved better than to be killed by some WoWish purple fairy woman. :P
BOA items? worst idea ever. i would quit diablo forever if that happens

It's going to be kind of hard trading for more than the cap if you can't carry more than the cap. You'd have to have multiple accounts in order to make such a transaction, and even then only to 4B gold.

The third party trading schemes rely on one key mechanic: the ability to trade gold between accounts. That's what needs to be tackled. The easy way is simply to disable gold trades permanently. Not the most savory thing in the world, but it does pretty much stop the process of buying/selling gold via third parties in its tracks. At that point only item trading would be available to achieve equivalant pricing/buyouts and that's up to the players themselves whether or not giving one item for multiple items is a fair trade.



I'm not sure if you are familiar with sites such as D2jsp, but people would simply undermine any gold caps and direct account gold trades using the sites own currency, in this case, "forum gold."

It was very prevalent in D2 and some even use it for D3 transactions. If blizzard tries to make a hassle of doing business in-game, people will find other avenues. People already do this just to undermine the 15% blizz tax, so I see it happening even more if they throw up other inconveniences.

Also: bring Cain back, he deserved better than to be killed by some WoWish purple fairy woman. :P


Agreed... what an extremely anticlimactic ending for a Diablo favorite. Big letdown there...
05/09/2013 06:48 PMPosted by Mith
I think a cap WITH a massive gold sink would solve evey problem of the AH.


U see now, if u cap the price u cap the amount of gold that can be sunk per transaction.

So ur cap is the opposite of a gold sink since people will simply revert to 3rd party RM sites like in D2 and not pay any sink and not give Blizz any cut. Explain how that is good in anyway??? Good for who? And wht is this mysterious ultra sink of all sinks that will magically solve everything? Pls tell us.

a gold cap would just mean some items can not be purchased with gold (since they are more valuable then the max level of gold). some other item (SOJ 2.0) would become the defacto standard of transaction since some number of SOJ 2.0's are worth about as much some ultra fly item.

essentially it's just the same system only less efficient for two reasons. Firstly everyone would have to trudge out into the trade channels to find someone who happens to be selling the thing I want for the number of SOJ 2.0's I have. Secondly, since you can't split an SOJ 2.0 easily item costs are tend to be truncated in integer values of SOJ 2.0. You can't get "change" in other words.

assuming inflation in general is a problem, which it isn't, inflation would still occur under the SOJ 2.0 barter system as the player base can farm an "infinite" number of SOJ 2.0's. So the value of anything in SOJ 2.0 terms decreases linearly relative to the player base per unit time.

moreover, i'm not even sure what the hell it is you're trying to do (make crappy gear viable)? A gold cap would only introduce a shadow market and a BoA system would only blow up the cost of high end gear. if you're assuming the dupe bug has caused hyperinflation you're jumping the gun because nobody has any idea what the market is going to look like after it comes up in a few hours (lol days probably).


Read this pls, it will help clarify things for you about how trade works.

Also if they are to make all items BoA then people will just trade accounts. This is terrible for Blizz in terms of bussiness. They will lose out on substantial revenue. (new accounts and AH revenue)

And even if it was not terrible for Blizz i still fail to see why it would be good for the game in any way.

Cos u assume it means that the drops will be better? Do u forget people just want the top 0.000000001% of gear. And rich people pay more, sorry for u, that is life.

Even if they boost the loots by 1000% people will still pay for the top 0.00000001. It
is that simple. the top 0000....000.1!!!! will just be 1000% better. Just a forward shift.

U want the best item found out of all the millions of players, u want that best 1/million but you refuse to pay the price.

Its like when ur cousin tony wins the lotto and u expect him to hand over the ticket and u in return will buy him lunch cos thats a good deal for tony. Even tho the lotto co will pay tony millions he must give it to you in exchange for lunch!
On the subject of comparing WoW to Diablo.

It's not BoA vs. tradable items that makes Diablo Diablo to me, it's Baal, Mephisto, Diablo, Tal-Rasha and sacrifice in the face of the despair of humanity versus Hell on Earth. It is about the engineering of a custom (That means different than one or two cookie cutter builds) demon killing machine to be the light in the darkness. (The skill system could use some more depth....now nothing is better than RF for DH for instance.)

Also: bring Cain back, he deserved better than to be killed by some WoWish purple fairy woman. :P


+1. Adapting the game to an entirely different economic system doesn't harm the game's essence. I guess ah tycoons and profiteering types are running out of strawmen.
05/09/2013 03:49 PMPosted by Shampain
Caps only increase black market activity. Unless ur a monopoly, and if ur a monopoly why the hell are u gonna cap ur price?

black market activity can be eliminated in a game like D3. It all falls back you paying someone and then in game getting your item.

Remove trading and bind all items to account unless traded thru the AH. Problem solved.
05/10/2013 04:38 AMPosted by Rav1n
Seriously, how many of the GFG items on the market yesterday got bought out and are sitting in suspended accounts


0

ZERO.

GFG items were worth more than 2beez even before the mass gold dupe. GFG items are never on the GAH unless posted by a complete fool.
05/10/2013 05:00 AMPosted by TheTias
The easy way is simply to disable gold trades permanently. Not the most savory thing in the world, but it does pretty much stop the process of buying/selling gold via third parties in its tracks.


TheTias, You are completely clueless about how economy in the virtual world works.

Do you honestly think stopping in-game gold trades stop's 3rd party from selling gold? It doesn't at all, it just adds another hoop to jump through then business continues as normal. I'll explain further.

Here is the scenario if in-game gold trades were disabled:

Step 1.) 3rd party websites add new instructions for their buyers to list the exact stats& names of junk items for the 3rd party gold-runner guy to purchase on the GAH for 2bil.

Step 2.) 3rd party requests the gold buyer to list junk items for 2bil until the amount of gold purchases has been successfully transferred. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3rd party site was even willing to take a 15% cut in favor of the customer. The sellers of gold are typically generous and have been known to give bonuses.

So yes, you guys keep thinking of ways to make trades more complicated. The end result is the legitimate player loses out on options for trades and 3rd party continues to be successful.

You want an option that kills 3rd party dead in its tracks? Remove the price ceiling on GAH and bring the price floor of gold in the RMAH to sell in stacks of 1bil. Most 3rd party transactions would be out of business overnight.

The truth is, the more caps you put on player's wealth in game and more complicated you make it for players to trade at the supply and demand curve the more business you bring to 3rd party.
05/10/2013 05:00 AMPosted by TheTias
(even Drothvader agrees with this point)


Because both our most active MvP's are completely clueless about economy and their suggestions hurt the legitimate players who don't want to spend real cash or use 3rd party the most.

I really wish they would step down and let people who actually know the in's and out's of our own economy have the big green text microphone because you MvP's are the blind leading the blind.

What a shame.
05/10/2013 05:46 AMPosted by Shampain
U see now, if u cap the price u cap the amount of gold that can be sunk per transaction.


OMG, people don't know how to read? I didn't say "cap the price" I said "cap the gold people have". you know, that number in your inventory beside a few little coins!?

So ur cap is the opposite of a gold sink since people will simply revert to 3rd party RM sites like in D2 and not pay any sink and not give Blizz any cut. Explain how that is good in anyway??? Good for who?


someone already explained here about the circular flow of currency and goods in a healthy economy, which doesn't happen here. I won't repeat all over, it's in page 15, 1st post. if you have a brain you'll understand how a massive gold sink combined with a gold cap or upkeep would help this game. and blizzard would also get (indirectly) its share, keeping the economy healthy would keep the value of gold at RMAH and extend the life of this game.

And wht is this mysterious ultra sink of all sinks that will magically solve everything? Pls tell us.


"gold sink" is by definition an abstract idea, it's anything that makes people spend gold in a way that removes it from the game. I didn't specify what it could be, it can be so many things. in this specific case this sink would have to be not only massive, but also appealing, something that makes people wish to spend huge ammounts of gold.

in my 1st post in this thread, that you obviously didn't read, I suggested new crafting recipes would be a good candidate for that, can't you imagine spending 2B (supposing the cap in 10B, like OP suggested) to craft a legendary that can roll as powerful as the ones dropped?

it could be a lot of other things too, gambling (like D2), for example. (well, people already gamble when they buy unID's from each other, so selling unID's would have to be forbidden for this to work).
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Step 2.) 3rd party requests the gold buyer to list junk items for 2bil until the amount of gold purchases has been successfully transferred. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3rd party site was even willing to take a 15% cut in favor of the customer. The sellers of gold are typically generous and have been known to give bonuses.


Let's say the cap becomes 2B at the account level. The player can list all the junk items they want at 2B and they'll still only be able to hold 2B.If they list multiple junk items for 2B it'd set off a pretty big red flag on their account and an auto-review would commence. Just as it is right now with the gold exploit being backtraced, this would be very easy to backtrace as well.

And being that Blizzard outright owns all of the items generated by the game, they don't even have to have any second thoughts about banning accounts for this type of ilicit activity.

Your example is so easily detected that it'd be account suicide to go through with it. The player would lose their account, and the gold seller site would lose however many accounts were used to make that transaction. That would shut them down quite effectively. When it becomes unprofitable to make such transactions for the gold sellers due to the restrictions on how gold is transferred and how much can be held at one time, the practice you gave as your example won't be around for long.

There are ways to enforce in-game trading that effectively sandbox the game. And if the JSP site(s) get aggressive, it wouldn't take much to shut them down either.

Also Chillaxin, you keep saying Droth and I are clueless, yet that's all you keep saying. You could at least be a bit more original or think of something else.

05/10/2013 07:31 AMPosted by Chillaxin
Because both our most active MvP's are completely clueless about economy and their suggestions hurt the legitimate players who don't want to spend real cash or use 3rd party the most.


I've yet to see any real solid evidence as to why a cap would hurt anybody that intends only to use in-game methods of acquiring items. If they're not going to use cash or a third party to purchase the items, then your point is moot. As I said earlier, if people continue to use third parties and it interferes with the game on a continuing basis, Blizzard has more than enough legal remedies to put them out of our misery.
The Question is why was there not a gold cap to begin with, diablo 2 had one.
Then a stash for more gold, and when you die you drop gold and gear.
. . . anyone play d2? or d1?.
05/10/2013 05:28 AMPosted by Kindred
BOA items? worst idea ever. i would quit diablo forever if that happens


How come you haven't quit yet then? There are BoA craftable items.
05/07/2013 05:10 PMPosted by PresidentWho
The only method to combat this inflation is with a cap


Literally, ROFL
Please back up your claim with real examples or proven theories. Ty


Must of made bills/trills from the AH. Posts nonsense for fear of losing un-earned gold. BRAVO! You are above the influence.
this is a great post and i support it's suggestions whole heartedly. sorry you are getting trolled so hard man, keep fighting the good fight.
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