Diablo® III

Gold cap and BoA Gear are now necessary.

(Locked)

How about a Ladder instead...
05/10/2013 10:10 AMPosted by Begaria
BOA items? worst idea ever. i would quit diablo forever if that happens


How come you haven't quit yet then? There are BoA craftable items.


Not only that, but they have the potential to be absolute BIS
On the subject of comparing WoW to Diablo.

It's not BoA vs. tradable items that makes Diablo Diablo to me, it's Baal, Mephisto, Diablo, Tal-Rasha and sacrifice in the face of the despair of humanity versus Hell on Earth. It is about the engineering of a custom (That means different than one or two cookie cutter builds) demon killing machine to be the light in the darkness. (The skill system could use some more depth....now nothing is better than RF for DH for instance.)

EXACTLY!

05/10/2013 03:23 AMPosted by Chillaxin
There are infinite other solutions and the only limitation is creativity. I gave you other solutions earlier in the thread that were not even responded to.

Then create one... Don't sit here and tell me there's the next greatest thing out there that just hasn't been discovered yet. Discover it and suggest it.

Because both our most active MvP's are completely clueless about economy and their suggestions hurt the legitimate players who don't want to spend real cash or use 3rd party the most.

I really wish they would step down and let people who actually know the in's and out's of our own economy have the big green text microphone because you MvP's are the blind leading the blind.

What a shame.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8769238100?page=15#281

I've clearly demonstrated that I do indeed know how economies work and thrive.

But I'll say it again since you're having a little bit of trouble reading it.

Economics is the FLOW of money. It flows from entity to entity in a circle and in order for the economy to remain stable, the flow must remain uninterrupted.

Diablo III is not even close to how a real economy would work.

With every item that is generated in the system, the equivalent MUST be lost. IE, items MUST bind when used and gold MUST be sunk.

When the game generates gold / items, they have to be forceably lost by the game. If you generate 1,000,000 gold a day you must lose 1,000,000 gold a day. Otherwise, you keep flooding the economy with more and more gold and it just loses its value entirely.

The whole problem with D3's "economy" is the fact that there's no real item sink. More and more items get generated and less and less is destroyed.

So yes, we're limited to how much we can carry on one account, but the loot we carry becomes progressively better and better until it reaches a point where anything we find in game cannot possibly match what we already have.

THAT is why gold is stagnant, THAT is why gold is losing value, and THAT is why D3's economy is failing.

If you want to talk about economics, study economics first.
Sorry, Droth, I must strongly disagree a gold cap that's based on a multiple of AH. Because 10b gold can be farmed extremely efficiently by bots now, the value of gold would become zero overnight, and gold would cease to be a viable currency for high end items.

Instead, people would trade: my great item for <x> radiant star emeralds as in game currency, or worse, my great item for $2,000 PayPal. Please keep in mind that the true trading value of top end items in this game remains $1,500USD +. It's not possible to buy a top 3, non-duped bow, nats ring, rare ring, rare amulet, etc. for less than 30-50 billion gold (or more), and many of those trades happen in USD.

Also, keep in mind that virtually all top players have multiple accounts.

The genie is already out of the bottle on this one. Gold is far too plentiful in the game, and Nephalem Gold Find makes it so that bots can collect TONS of gold very efficiently. If Blizzard really wanted to solve to gold inflation problem, they would first have to have the will to solve the gold bot problem, and then find a way to drain the economy of trillions of gold, in a fair, meaningful way.
Edited by Talys#1767 on 5/10/2013 11:48 AM PDT
With every item that is generated in the system, the equivalent MUST be lost. IE, items MUST bind when used and gold MUST be sunk.

When the game generates gold / items, they have to be forceably lost by the game. If you generate 1,000,000 gold a day you must lose 1,000,000 gold a day. Otherwise, you keep flooding the economy with more and more gold and it just loses its value entirely.

The whole problem with D3's "economy" is the fact that there's no real item sink. More and more items get generated and less and less is destroyed.

So yes, we're limited to how much we can carry on one account, but the loot we carry becomes progressively better and better until it reaches a point where anything we find in game cannot possibly match what we already have.

THAT is why gold is stagnant, THAT is why gold is losing value, and THAT is why D3's economy is failing.

If you want to talk about economics, study economics first.


This is pretty much it.

Keep in mind that in every real economy, inflation is a fact of life (in fact, it's healthy). The problem with D3 is hyperinflation of gold. For a long while, AH traders equated that 2 billion gold to $500; now, 20 billion gold is worth $500.

In fact, there are deflationary pressures on real values of items. 9 months ago, top end items would sell for over $5,000, and now, items better than that will sell for $2,500. The craziest item collectors have left the game, and the ones replacing them just aren't willing to spend as much.

Further, in a real economy, it's not possible to put a floor or ceiling to the value of currency, relative to other currencies, if you want your currency to be a tradable commodity; trying to fix currency values is a quick way to make it of limited value outside your closed economy (for example: Chinese RMB).
05/10/2013 11:55 AMPosted by whoopadeedoo
Droth, when you suggest using price ceilings to improve an economy (which you defined as the "flow of money"), you don't understand economics.

I'm trying to make suggestions to satisfy those who still think "OMGERD DIABLO IS A TRADING GAME AND NOTHING SHOULD EVER BIND TO YOUR AKOUNTZ!"

The only real solution involves BoE's.
Actually removing the cap can halt inflation all together due to how this game works. If you think about it, with the max amount of gold you can pickup killing mobs all day, selling junk items, and completing quests, there is a limit that can be earned daily per character. If people start selling items for much higher then the current cap, the gold should stop inflating due to the 15% auction fee.

For example; this means every time someone were to sell something worth 100 billion, 15 billion would be taken out of the games economy never to be seen again. Sure items may get crazy expensive at first, but there will become a limit on how expensive they get, and as more items get added in to the economy through farming, they will eventually become more affordable to players that are poor.

Currently finding someone to trade with helps inflate the games economy by not contributing to the 15% tax. People don't even have to use a third party site, they can use the trade channel or forums to find buyers and doing so will help contribute to inflation.

I know Diablo was famous for the trading of items and not the gold, but if people are worried about items being too expensive, it will only get worse unless you create a way to stop the inflation, and removing the cap is one way to do it.

The whole problem with D3's "economy" is the fact that there's no real item sink. More and more items get generated and less and less is destroyed.


This.

The whole problem with D3's "economy" is the fact that there's no real item sink. More and more items get generated and less and less is destroyed.


This.


Until an item wave, when all previous items become worthless :)

I still have my 1100 dps revenant bow with 95% crit damage and a socket. That once proud weapon isn't even good enough for Scoundrel now. Or my amazing trifecta ring with 4.5 crit.. or amazing LOH quad amulet with 45% crit damage.. or legacy zuni boots.. or...
05/10/2013 12:16 PMPosted by whoopadeedoo
You can create a de facto item sink by slowly introducing new gear every year or two. You don't have to physically destroy anything. It has the same effect as a ladder reset, only it's a soft reset. It's how real life progress stimulates the trade of technology.

Yes, and then add another 10 new MP levels, make the game even more and more ridiculous...

That works great in a game like WoW since the item generation is completely controlled, but it will not work in a game like this.
I would love to see no level cap, but with no attribute benefits past paragon 100.

I miss the xp bar moving.
Here, (almost) total item customization: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796270045?page=1#0
Let me know what you think in that thread. ;)
On the subject of comparing WoW to Diablo.

It's not BoA vs. tradable items that makes Diablo Diablo to me, it's Baal, Mephisto, Diablo, Tal-Rasha and sacrifice in the face of the despair of humanity versus Hell on Earth. It is about the engineering of a custom (That means different than one or two cookie cutter builds) demon killing machine to be the light in the darkness. (The skill system could use some more depth....now nothing is better than RF for DH for instance.)

EXACTLY!

05/10/2013 03:23 AMPosted by Chillaxin
There are infinite other solutions and the only limitation is creativity. I gave you other solutions earlier in the thread that were not even responded to.

Then create one... Don't sit here and tell me there's the next greatest thing out there that just hasn't been discovered yet. Discover it and suggest it.

Because both our most active MvP's are completely clueless about economy and their suggestions hurt the legitimate players who don't want to spend real cash or use 3rd party the most.

I really wish they would step down and let people who actually know the in's and out's of our own economy have the big green text microphone because you MvP's are the blind leading the blind.

What a shame.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8769238100?page=15#281

I've clearly demonstrated that I do indeed know how economies work and thrive.

But I'll say it again since you're having a little bit of trouble reading it.

Economics is the FLOW of money. It flows from entity to entity in a circle and in order for the economy to remain stable, the flow must remain uninterrupted.

Diablo III is not even close to how a real economy would work.

With every item that is generated in the system, the equivalent MUST be lost. IE, items MUST bind when used and gold MUST be sunk.

When the game generates gold / items, they have to be forceably lost by the game. If you generate 1,000,000 gold a day you must lose 1,000,000 gold a day. Otherwise, you keep flooding the economy with more and more gold and it just loses its value entirely.

The whole problem with D3's "economy" is the fact that there's no real item sink. More and more items get generated and less and less is destroyed.

So yes, we're limited to how much we can carry on one account, but the loot we carry becomes progressively better and better until it reaches a point where anything we find in game cannot possibly match what we already have.

THAT is why gold is stagnant, THAT is why gold is losing value, and THAT is why D3's economy is failing.

If you want to talk about economics, study economics first.


lolol this kids a genius !
more and more gold is being created w/o a sink AND that's why gold is losing value
WOW MY MIND IS BLOWN BY YOUR GREAT ECONOMIC INSIGHT
the d3 team had an excellent source to base their game off of...it was called d2
the diablo 2 system thrives when it had a large player base..unlike d3 which caves in on itself

but i guess they needed phds in econ and marketing experts to create this cancer of diablo 3 called the ah
05/10/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Mike
Let me know what you think in that thread. ;)

I like it!

I've bookmarked it for further review. Thank you for sharing it!
I'm ok with BoA stuff so long as the item hunt is fun and rewarding. I'm a ghost player now for personal reasons but I have lots of time to be playing this game in the future and certainly hope I will want to.

When I started playing this game last year opening week I had problems with d3 on my computer that affected my gameplay and when they fixed it I was already way behind my friends. As I leveled up and got to inferno I remember catching up with my buddies and laughing at them being stuck in act 1...

Well painfully and slowly I made it to act 2 before them and hit a wall the size of Hoover Damn! 0 progression was made and our gear is laughable and seemingly unattainable. We hunted and searched and used gold AH to augment our gear week by week. We killed Diablo inferno and farmed act 3 they whole time never found anything better than AH gear. Then 1.0.4 came and with it some gear and by 1.0.5 everyone with replacing rare with legendary and set gear. But nothing useful dropped so again I was forced to try and flip my old gear for slightly better gear. The only rationally feasible way to gear was AH... Monster power came and the only way to progress was AH. Had I not been playing since day 1 and had the ability to forcast when to sell my gear for profit and upgrade then I would still be stuck dealing 70-90k damage with no EHP...

The game simply did not return a item hunt worth playing... I wish I had never ever opened the AH tab. But had I not i would not be any bit further along than mp 1-2 by now. So by all means give us BoA but fix this itemization game and make it so players can find their own gear with a fair amount of time.
There should have been a cap on the total amount of gold you could have on your account. In D2 each character could only carry so much gold, and keep so much in his stash. A similar system would have prevented runaway inflation. You could never try to sell an item on the AH for more than the limit, because no one would ever be allowed to have more. With historical examples, in real life, such as the runaway inflation in Germany following World War I, or the ridiculous overvaluation of the tulips, during the tulip craze in Holland, the game designers should have seen this coming. I believe the lure of profits from the RMAH was too much to resist, regardless of what it would eventually do to the game. Get rid of the RMAH, and limit gold per character as in D2, and no inflation occurs.
And here we have a prime example of why these forums are worthless. This goes for 19 pages and is "highly rated" while good suggestions get buried in minutes.

Go ahead, make a gold cap. Something else will become currency. All that you might accomplish is that you'll have to trade in person since the AH won't let you trade 1000 radiant star rubies for an item.

I've said it before, dupers and bots are the reason gold is so inflated. If you want proof, just look at your own AH transactions and total gold picked up. Look at your own gems! I have about 100 million gold collected and somewhere around 150 million worth of gems in my gear. Add in the AH 15% cut to all my transactions and I've taken a LOT more gold out of the economy than I've put into it.

Bottom line: you can make whatever ridiculous suggestions you want for gold sinks, gold caps and whatnot, but until Blizzard seriously bans the hell out of botters, it won't do anything. The #1 elite kills is over 800,000. That's disgusting on Blizzard's part that they let a SINGLE account get that far without banning it.
Edited by Zoid#1297 on 5/10/2013 12:40 PM PDT
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