Diablo® III

Gold cap and BoA Gear are now necessary.

(Locked)

You've obviously not really played any of those games. I can easily list their grinds for you if you'd like:

FF V: Job system
FF VI: Esper development + spell learning via Espers
FF VII: Material leveling, sidequests (related to Materia)
FF VII: Main Story: Minimal, Draw system really. Omega Weapon: Draw system and material farming via tedious methods. Card game.
FF IX: Item hunt (primarily via Chocobo Digging), Card game.
FF X: Item hunt, Sphere Grid.
FF XII: License system, item hunt via specific monsters (tedious)
FF XIII: Materials, Gil, Sphere Grid, The Backtracking (oh GOD the backtracking...)


Wow.. What a trashball. You're basically saying I am a liar because you grind in games. I didn't grind in any of those games. and still achieved success.
Ya, let's not feed the troll anymore :)
This discussion has been over for awhile... gold cap and boa are not necessary and anyone still saying so is obviously trolling.

I haven't seen any other argument than the following.

"This isn't WoW"
"Gold caps will cause people to go to other sites"
"BoA hinders trading and will destroy the economy"
"Insert random attack on Drothvader her"

I have backed everything I have said with actual real world examples of how currencies actually do work and I have shown why it fails in this game.

People also keep comparing this to D2 when D2 suffered from the same issues. There was no item sink and no gold sink that was worthwhile so gold became worthless.

The only reason gold has not tanked as a currency yet is because of the existence of the Auction House using gold as a bartering medium.

Gold only has a value intrinsically related to how much is floating around. Hence why inflation has skyrocketed to the point where items are worth more than the cap on the AH.

What you're seeing are the actual effects of a failed model which was only bandaided in D2 by implementing ladders.

What is created, must be lost at some point or the whole system will fail.

I really do not understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. What goes in, must come out. That is the only way an in game economy like D3 will ever work.

It works in WoW because this is how the game is setup. Items / gold is created, then sunk through various means. It's very effective, and works great.

Every item bought and sold eventually gets consumed and can no longer be traded. The only thing in D3 that will ever be consumed is crafting materials. But they're not worthwhile to use because the crafting system isn't very lucrative.

The "economy" is crashing. The whole system must be redesigned if there's any hope of it being fixed.

You can't have the game just keep creating gold and items without taking them away. It just will never work like that.

A reset button like a ladder is the only way a system like this can ever be extended beyond its initial collapse.


Perhaps you missed my first post (339) in your thread entirely... Just because you choose not to see any other arguments doesn't mean they are not there.
Edited by Overki1l#1152 on 5/10/2013 1:36 PM PDT
Please don't implement this idea blizzard.

2 cents in the bucket.
05/10/2013 01:25 PMPosted by Drothvader
What you're seeing are the actual effects of a failed model which was only bandaided in D2 by implementing ladders.


I am still addicted to that "bandaid" a decade later.

if that is the case give D3 the same 'bandaid"
05/10/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Emt
Stop with the trolling or I'm going to start reporting you.

It's not trolling, but do whatever you like I suppose.
MVP - Technical Support
View profile
05/10/2013 01:27 PMPosted by n0rain
Wow.. What a trashball. You're basically saying I am a liar because you grind in games. I didn't grind in any of those games. and still achieved success.


You simply stated that there were no grinds in those games and I made a rebuttal to that. And for that you call me a trashball? I'd look in the mirror first before saying something like that.

Can you beat the game without excessive grind? In most of those games, yes (FF VII is an outlier in that the entire game itself is a gigantic grind and FF XIII is mostly backtracking and gated content (it's the Mists of Pandaria of Final Fantasy games). Can you beat the most challenging parts of the game such as Omega/Omega Weapon or the special monsters that require specific items and strategies (the latter is in FF X)? Hardly, and in FF VIII not a chance.

Now let's translate that into Diablo 3: Can you beat the game without an excessive grind? If all you plan on doing is beating Inferno, yes (within reason at least). Can you face the more challenging aspects of the game without a grind? No, not unless you dual wield credit cards or flip like it's going out of style.

If you take the right path you can beat many games with minimal effort. But good luck beating the parts of it that actually require anything more than a twig and a cheese.
Back when gold was worth $1 per million, you could find items worth up to $2000 on the GAH. The price ceiling wasn't an issue because the ceiling was way above the supply and demand curve. (equilibrium point)

Price ceilings don't do anything when placed ABOVE the equilibrium point. They teach us this within the first year of economics even in free schools.

Now that gold is worth less than $0.025 per million you can only find items worth up to $50 on the GAH. This means all items worth between $50 - $2,000 are now affected by the price ceiling where they didn't used to be. The effect is that their price stays the same, but gets sold somewhere else out of reach for legitimate players who don't want to spend cash or use 3rd party.

Their price stays the same. As you can see in reality, the price ceiling doesn't have the power to control prices, it only controls where those items will be sold. In this case, farther away from legitimate players, and away from a place that doesn't have a 15% tax. Both those results are bad.

Deflation of the value of gold is the ultimate cause of the problem. You have to reverse inflation or remove the price ceiling. Since reversing inflation is a much harder task, we need to remove the price ceiling as it is causing a lot of damage with no benefits.

If you think price ceiling has the benefit of "controlling prices" then you need to re-read this post.
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 5/10/2013 1:55 PM PDT
TF2 has a surprisingly good economy system.
More RPG's should copy it.

oh and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBf47yRpOM8
05/10/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Emt
Stop with the trolling or I'm going to start reporting you.


Drothvader isn't technically trolling because he honestly believes the suggestions he is making would be for the greater good. He an exceptionally intelligent poster but unfortunately puts too much faith in his own view of how virtual economies work.

I still like to call him a troll from time to time because some of the things he says are blatantly false.

He does try to listen, unlike a true troll. Maybe I'm just falling for the bait that he can actually hear some reason.

But it is hard to reason with someone like Drothvader. His views resemble the ideal philosophy behind communism. I remember his old threads where he wanted players to all have the same loot even if they farmed at different speeds. He also detests the idea that smart traders (flippers) could get ahead of grinding players with less dedicated time. He wants the rewards to be equal (simlilar to communism)Keep in mind that communism is NOT evil. If communism was set up perfectly, it would be the ideal economy. However communism doesn't take into consideration many levels of human psychology. As with Drothvader, he doesn't understand the devastation real humans would do if Drothvaders ideas were ever implemented.
There is no point in reasoning with someone who puts forth ideas like these. Gold cap and boa gear in a trading game, ooookaaay then...
*woooooosh*
Chillaxen, you make a very good point. It is human greed that wrecks all economic systems. In a perfect world everyone would be fair and not try to take advantage of others, but human nature will always take over in the end. Even in a free market, supply and demand can be artificially manipulated , enabling those with no conscience to prey on others to enrich themselves. I am not an advocate of communism, at all, and our capitalistic system has been so corrupted, it no longer works as a supply and demand free market should. Greedy individuals can wreck a virtual economy even easier, and do not feel any remorse when doing so. That is why some controls or limitations are needed. Doing away with the RMAH would solve a lot of the problem, because then players would not be making real money, and their motivation to cheat and gouge would be lessened. It won't happen, because Blizzard makes too much money from it, and they won't kill the cash cow.
05/10/2013 02:05 PMPosted by Chillaxin
But it is hard to reason with someone like Drothvader. His views resemble the ideal philosophy behind communism.

No, what I want is a system where playing the game actually has a point behind it.
[

I have backed everything I have said with actual real world examples of how currencies actually do work and I have shown why it fails in this game.



No, you really, really haven't. All you've done is show how poorly you understand the problem.
No, you really, really haven't. All you've done is show how poorly you understand the problem.

Explain then, how does an economy work and why will the current model be self sustaining?

How could it be changed so that the market could normalize after a period of time.

Please, if you can do this without slogging my name through the mud, I am more than willing to listen and learn something new. If not, you have done nothing but say "you're wrong because I said you're wrong"

It's easy enough to claim that I don't understand something but it requires a moderate amount of effort to actually write a complete rebuttal.

This is a discussion forum, not a "Let's like or dislike every thread topic we see."
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]