Diablo® III

Gold cap and BoA Gear are now necessary.

(Locked)

05/10/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Drothvader
No, what I want is a system where playing the game actually has a point behind it.


Please understand that you and I want the same end result. I agree with your motives Drothvader, but hopefully we can work together to establish better methods. BoA and price ceilings cripple trade practices that are already heavily injured and do not improve the game-part of diablo.

Instead of trying to limit trade and hurt the AH, Focus on improving the actual game. The main reason the AH has so much attention right now is because the core game with its rewards are so lacking.

Why is sitting in the AH so much more rewarding than playing the game? Because the rewards for playing the game need serious help!! Limiting player's ability to trade doesn't aid you in your cause to help improve the game..

I'll paste some more suggestions in my next posts:
Back when gold was worth $1 per million, you could find items worth up to $2000 on the GAH. The price ceiling wasn't an issue because the ceiling was way above the supply and demand curve. (equilibrium point)

Price ceilings don't do anything when placed ABOVE the equilibrium point. They teach us this within the first year of economics even in free schools.

Now that gold is worth less than $0.025 per million you can only find items worth up to $50 on the GAH. This means all items worth between $50 - $2,000 are now affected by the price ceiling where they didn't used to be. The effect is that their price stays the same, but gets sold somewhere else out of reach for legitimate players who don't want to spend cash or use 3rd party.

Their price stays the same. As you can see in reality, the price ceiling doesn't have the power to control prices, it only controls where those items will be sold. In this case, farther away from legitimate players, and away from a place that doesn't have a 15% tax. Both those results are bad.

Deflation of the value of gold is the ultimate cause of the problem. You have to reverse inflation or remove the price ceiling. Since reversing inflation is a much harder task, we need to remove the price ceiling as it is causing a lot of damage with no benefits.

If you think price ceiling has the benefit of "controlling prices" then you need to re-read this post.


Yay. Someone who gets it. +1

Cap gold, remove RMAH, remove GAH -- all you do is move trading to an avenue that's not in-game, and the only people you disenfranchise are the casual players who have not the patience to trade there. Their items will be purchased with worthless ingame gold, and flipped for valuable, dollars out-of-game.
ANYTHING that improves the fun and rewards of actually playing the game will have the side effect of improving the economy:

05/09/2013 04:56 PMPosted by Chillaxin
Examples of endgame are Formalized PvP, Endless Dungeons, Competitive PvE, World Bosses, Gear customization and character prestige, Grand master professions, etc.
Listen I don't post very much but a lot of people in here are disregarding opinions because they come from a specific person which is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Hint: Don't do this. It's not an socially accepted argument for a reason
05/10/2013 01:47 PMPosted by TheTias
You simply stated that there were no grinds in those games and I made a rebuttal to that.


You can make your case without offensive bantering such as stating that I did not play something that I clearly did. So yes you are a trashball for calling me a liar upon just meeting me with no legitimate reason. Every action deserves a reaction I say. Your trashy attitude is met with disdain mister look in the mirror.

Can you beat the game without excessive grind? In most of those games, yes (FF VII is an outlier in that the entire game itself is a gigantic grind and FF XIII is mostly backtracking and gated content (it's the Mists of Pandaria of Final Fantasy games). Can you beat the most challenging parts of the game such as Omega/Omega Weapon or the special monsters that require specific items and strategies (the latter is in FF X)? Hardly, and in FF VIII not a chance.

Now let's translate that into Diablo 3:


They don't translate since side quests aren't necessary to be successful in Final Fantasy. It was a bad example and your reasoning isn't logical. In Diablo 3, to be successful you need to be able to grind. In Final Fantasy, to be successful you just need to build your character correctly. Why you ask? Because Diablo 3 has pseudo-difficulty via gear checks. To explain further why the example was stupid, 90% of your strength comes from gear in D3 where FF allows your character to actually become stronger through skills.
The bottom line is, there are people who are willing to pay thousands of dollars for the best items. There are people who will even pay thousands of dollars to buy an account just to get ONE BOA item.

If you put an artificial ceiling on any in-game mode of trading, that trading goes elsewhere. With gold, this is already pretty much the case, because no legitimate player actually wants to have 90 billion gold.

The only way to eliminate out-of-game transactions to pay for in-game items is to eliminate trading altogether, and that would penalize (and take the fun out of) casual players far more than top-geared players -- who would simply quit and play another game.

As Chillaxin said, making the game better -- as in more worthwhile to play -- is the solution.
05/10/2013 04:18 PMPosted by Talys
As Chillaxin said, making the game better -- as in more worthwhile to play -- is the solution.


I agree.
  • - Remove the movement speed cap on gear. That extra 12% isn't going to break the game and ranged characters could use the extra help since hit boxes are so bad in this game.
  • - Speaking of hit boxes, the whole "if the monster starts to swing, it will hit you no matter how far you move out of the way is pretty annoying.
  • - Increase the max players in a game.
  • - Further tweak monster density and don't compensate by reducing droprates. More enemies that drop the same loot per enemies does mean more fun.
  • - This game has had amazing funding. Why not spend money to make money and make more classes like other games do (i'm looking at you, borderlands2) I'd even pay real money to have a Necromancer add-on pac. This project would fund itself easily.
  • - Reduce some of the cooldowns in this game for PvE. Many skills are not usable simply because of the cooldowns that most action RPG's don't even have 1minute+ cooldowns.
  • - Give us the spell Fireball. I don't even care what class has it. This is a fan favorite!
  • - Use the snow system to balance PvP without effecting PvE.
  • - Allow us to build our characters and choose where points go SOMEWHERE.
  • - Put the nephalem cube back into the game. Customizable recipies are freaking awesome!
  • - Buff underpowered skills. You won't break the game by putting skills that are almost never used at the level of used skills. ("there is no such thing as too much power!") Sometimes leaving a character to feel powerful is a good thing and fun but if most builds have no power, it becomes boring to be pigeon-holed into specific builds.
  • - Runewords omfg these are fun! How these got removed from the game blows my mind.
  • - Allow players to farm what they want to farm. If players find a 2 minute run they want to do, don't "nerf it by 50-75%" instead create new areas to compete with that farming method. Nerfing farming areas makes players feel useless and bored.
  • More to come later.
    Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 5/10/2013 5:15 PM PDT
    - Remove the movement speed cap on gear. That extra 12% isn't going to break the game and ranged characters could use the extra help since hit boxes are so bad in this game.
    - Speaking of hit boxes, the whole "if the monster starts to swing, it will hit you no matter how far you move out of the way is pretty annoying.
    - Increase the max players in a game.
    - Further tweak monster density and don't compensate by reducing droprates. More enemies that drop the same loot per enemies does mean more fun.


    All yes!

    05/10/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Chillaxin
    - This game has had amazing funding. Why don't spend money to make money and make more classes like other games do (i'm looking at you, borderlands2) I'd even pay real money to have a Necromancer add-on pac. This project would fund itself easily.

    YES!!

    05/10/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Chillaxin
    - Reduce some of the cooldowns in this game for PvE. Many skills are not usable simply because of the cooldowns that most action RPG's don't even have 1minute+ cooldowns.


    YES!!!

    - Allow us to build our characters and choose where points go SOMEWHERE.
    - Put the nephalem cube back into the game. Customizable recipies are freaking awesome!
    - Buff underpowered skills. You won't break the game by putting skills that are almost never used at the level of used skills. ("there is no such thing as too much power!") Sometimes leaving a character to feel powerful is a good thing and fun but if most builds have no power, it becomes boring to be pigeon-holed into specific builds.


    Oh God YES!!!!!

    - Runewords omfg these are fun! How these got removed from the game blows my mind.
    - Allow players to farm what they want to farm. If players find a 2 minute run they want to do, don't "nerf it by 50-75%" instead create new areas to compete with that farming method. Nerfing farming areas makes players feel useless and bored.
    More to come later.


    I need to change my pants...

    05/10/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Chillaxin
    - Use the snow system to balance PvP without effecting PvE.


    what's this?
    Raising the cap will be the strongest gold sink by far. But add other gold sinks too.

    Blizzard needs to do both for the health of the game.

    Edit: Lets think of some gold sinks for Blizzard:

    1.)Raise the gold cap so the best items can be sold in game sinking billions daily.
    2.) Add a socket quest that costs gold.
    3.) Add transmorgrification to gear that costs gold.
    4.) Sell special effects and/or auras that costs gold.
    5.) Add an upgrade system for gear that costs gold.
    6.) Add a re-roll option for legendarys that costs fiery brimstones AND gold.
    7.) Add a way to make BOA gear into non-BOA gear that costs 1,000 demonic essences AND gold. BONUS: it sinks more gold if you try to sell it!
    8.) Add elixers that give timed buffs that costs gold.
    9.) Add cool pets that follow you that costs gold.
    10.) Add a PvP wager system that takes a % of the cut.
    11.) Add an endless dungeon that costs gold for the tickets to enter.
    12.) Add optional ubers for testing your might that cost gold.
    13.) Add Gheed
    14.) Allow players to swap to convert their gold find into bonus magic find. (look an option that causes less gold to be created)
    15.) Add improved mercenaries that are hired for gold.

    I'll think of more fun gold sinks later, this was just 5 minutes off the top of my head. But really, this game should have a lot more gold sinks than what it has right now.
    Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 5/10/2013 5:14 PM PDT
    Both here and on the EU (where I'm from) all you see is AH this AH that.

    Wake up! All this talk of the AH has ruined the game, can't compete against the dupers and the scammers, get rid and recently the great gold dupe debarcle.

    Simple solution: Don't use the ruddy thing It's there if you need it for whatever reason. It's not obligatory.

    So many folk talk about why isn't there a solo/offline mode to the game.... k, how do you trade if you are all alone? doh

    EU was lucky only so much that we didn't get scammed like you guys, but whilst so many folk feel like the world has ended due to the AH being offline, simple fact is the GAME, the core of this damn thing is up and running. So go play or, I dunno, switch to Monopoly.
    05/10/2013 04:26 PMPosted by n0rain
    what's this?


    The Snow system is described in one of Jay Wilson's interviews. It is a system already in place that allows the programs to customize how each-and-every skill acts. It allows the programers to set different rules for PvP and PvE so you can balance one without hurting the other.

    They already have it programmed into the game, they are simply choosing not to use it.

    I'll search for the specific video that describes the snow system and update this post with the link for you.

    EDIT: Here is the video: http://youtu.be/_E452S_fJwA?t=10m55s

    They start talking about the snow system at the 10minute 55 second mark. Feel free to watch the whole video tho because it is interesting!
    Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 5/10/2013 4:42 PM PDT
    Bot prevention System:

    It is not a matter of that they don't know what causes the woes of the D3 economy. It is a matter that they failed to stop them. It seems blizzard lost the war against botters and does not know how to stop them.

    Botters and 3rd party is definitely to blame. And they are active every single day.

    And yes, I do know how to stop botters. I know that sounds like a real bold statement and I don't expect you to believe me but it involves a system that targets accounts that act like bots with questions that only humans can answer. You must use unique questions each time so it will always be impossible to program what question will come next. You must also make sure 99+% of normal players will never even see this system because it is only targeting potential botters.

    Step 1.) Any account that plays over 105 hours within a 1 week time frame gets flagged for a question. (99%+ of the popluation do not play this much)
    Step 2.) The question is simple that anyone that can read their native language can answer but a bot wouldn't know what to do. For example "What is the 2nd word in this sentence?"
    Step 3.) The correct answer exempts that account until another "105 hours played within 1 week" period occurs. An incorrect or missing answer flags the account for a Manual review by a Blizzard staff.
    Step 4.) The Blizzard staff examines all the account activity and is the final judge on if to ban or not.

    Now, I'm certain that this setup could be improved and optimized. For example, the amount of hours for step 1 could be increased or decreased. But what I have here is a great start and the foundation for bot prevention. You ultimately want an automated service to flag bots for a manual review so no false-positives occur and normal players will never be affected by that system. I also suggest flagging accounts who use several clients per IP address. The only ones using more than a couple clients per IP address are typically abusers.
    05/07/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Drothvader
    I'm tired of caring, game died today as far as I'm concerned.

    All that happened in that respect is a bubble burst causing the price of gold to rapidly decline in value.

    It happens to ALL FIAT currencies at some point.

    When you design a system that wasn't going to work from day one, you should know that is eventually going to collapse.


    Thank you for pointing this out; I've been trying to convince people of this for ages, so it's good to hear when someone else suggests it.
    I've played DnD, all the balder's gate games, Ragnarok Online, FLYFF, Fiesta Online, WoW, All the Dungeon Siege games, Aion, Ultima Online, Both torchlight games, both Borderlands, Both Titan Quest, Both Untold Legends, and probably many others I've forgotten. There are elements in the action RPG genre that could create character customization but I'm not talking about any game in specific.

    It would be nice to have more character customization (choices) In diablo 3. Every demonhunter has every skill. Every demonhunter buys the gear with the highest numbers they could afford. You might see the numbers 72 and 89 as choices, but for most people we just see that 89 will always be better than 72 and we will always pick the highest number. In other games gear that didn't have the highest number was still viable choices.

    When I was playing other action RPG's and my friend's told me to try WoW, I did. I was disgusted by the loot in that game because they had no flavor, and was just stat-sticks. The higher number the better everytime.

    No one can argue and say there is more choices in Diablo3 character creation.

    I have a demonhunter.

    I don't have a dark elf demonhunter or a human demhunter.

    I don't have a Trap demonhunter or a Spreadshot demonhunter or a pet demonhunter.

    I don't have a Melee demonhunter or a cannon demonhunter or bow demonhunter or a spellcaster demonhunter.

    I don't have a strength demonhunter, or an intelligence demonhunter, or an attack speed proc-based demonhunter.

    I JUST HAVE A DEMON HUNTER. The same as every other demonhunter.

    Demonhunters is just an example. I suggest allowing us to have different ways of building each class!
    Chillaxin, may I use some of your ideas for a well put together post I am working on.

    also I have too played many rpgs including traditional rpg campaigns.
    Edited by n0rain#1149 on 5/10/2013 5:05 PM PDT
  • - Add Player made lobbies.
  • - Add an option to disable screen shaking
  • - Add an option to disable right-click to equip. (players accidentally swapping gear SOLVED)
  • - Make corridors, caves, and other areas much darker.
  • - Make elemental damage have an effect like shocking and burning enemies.
  • - Make randomized end-game zones.
  • - Create competitions for your players to play in.
  • - Add the option to disable the vision of Grey, White, and Blue items
  • - Allow the option to play the game in a non-linear fashion without quests and in between acts in any order.
  • - Add the option to disable quest dialog from ever popping up again.
  • - Add charms back into the game! (Very fun items! It is like every charm you find has many chances to be an upgrade because it could be better than any 1 of your charms)
  • - Improve set bonuses and add glowing cosmetic effects too.
  • - Add hostile anywhere option.
  • - Add a 2nd gear paperdoll for gear swap.
  • - Stop nerfing monster difficulty
  • - Add different gems for more gear customization
  • - Add jewels
  • These are key concepts for a great crafting system:

  • Create an attractive gold sink.
  • The bottleneck to how much you can craft is based on how much a player kills instead of how much wealth you spend gambling
  • Junk items can be salvaged and made useful.
  • The top-tier equipment found from loot remain top-tier and valuable.
  • Crafted items don't flood the market.
  • Crafted items have an exclusive bonus without making loot worthless.
  • Paying the full price comes after RNG did its part.
  • You never reach a point where crafting is useless because of the concept of "it won't be worth the cost to try to craft an upgrade."
  • Players will want to continue crafting even after they craft a great item.
  • How do you make a crafting system that has all these in Diablo3? I'll give you an example

    [SOLUTION]:

    1.) Crafting the new items require 5 demonic essences each. The demonic essences and the crafts remain bind-on-account.

    2.) Crafted equipment can be upgraded via Tempering. Since players will only temper equipment they plan on wearing, it needs to be very costly.

    3.) Each temper level will have a different cost based on the equipment slot and the temper level you are making. The formula is (PTR crafted recipe)x(temper level)x2 = Cost to Temper

    4.) Tempering can be performed up to 10 times on an equipment. The tempering level will be visible with a +1 through +10 to an item's name.

    Example 1.)
    Tempering (amulet of dexterity) into (amulet of dexterity+1) will cost 200,000 gold, 2 perfect square gems, and 2 fiery brimstone.

    Example 2.)
    Crafting (gloves of dexterity+9) into (gloves of dexterity +10) will cost 1,000 exquisite essences, 100 tomes of secrets, and 500,000 gold.

    If these example costs are too low or too high, they are subject to change and can be adjusted to create balance.

    5.) Each tempering level reduces the difference of perfection from the item's affixes by 5% for a total of 50%. Uneven numbers will round down.

    Example 1.)
    Crafted of gloves that started at 200 dex and 100 vit gets upgraded and reaches temper level 1 would have 205 dex and 105vit. to a maximum of +10 at 250 dex and 150 vit.

    Example 2.)
    Crafted gloves that started at 250 dex and 150 vit, gets upgraded and reaches temper level 1 would have 252dex and 152vit to a maximum of +10 at 275 dex and 175vit.

    This allows the crafted items to have an exclusive bonus without having higher affix ranges than what can be found on loot. This also allows you to make the 200 dex gloves be as powerful as 250dex gloves by upgradeing them without making the 250dex gloves you craft later useless because those gloves can be upgraded to 275 dex.

  • This crafting system creates a smaller gap between junk and perfection without reducing the rarity of perfection.
  • All Players will always desire to craft more for better starting numbers.
  • The more you kill, the more you can craft.
  • Players will desire to upgrade every time they create a new "best craft". This is a rewarding resource sink.
  • High rolled equipment will still be rare and valuable while maintaining the current range of max affix rolls.
  • Players don't go broke if RNG decides to be evil. Instead they just lose demonic essences.
  • Crafted items don't flood the market because they remain bind-on-account.
  • Players will want to continue crafting even after they find a great item. Afterall, players will continue killing and gaining demonic essences and using them doesn't have a cost.
  • This is a nice rewarding bonus without being taxing.
  • Players pay the price after they crafted an item they plan on using and NOT before that.
  • All this is subject to change if I discover a balance issue.
    05/10/2013 05:04 PMPosted by n0rain
    Chillaxin, may I use some of your ideas for a well put together post I am working on.


    Yes, I give permission for anyone and everyone to use any of my ideas anywhere. I do not need credit for these ideas as many of them are my own spin of ideas that many have already thought of. I fully encourage the spreading of ideas where the focus is improving gameplay instead of limiting economy.

    We need to move away from our hate for certain features, and focus on improving the features that are lacking.
    Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 5/10/2013 5:13 PM PDT
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    Chillaxin, you have put a great deal of thought into what you have posted but I am afraid you're straying way off topic.

    Could you do me a favor and create a new thread with the aforementioned items that you have included in the last page or so?

    I really don't want to see your feedback get buried into the 22nd page of a thread with an unrelated topic.

    EDIT: This is actually me saying I like your idea and I would like to comment on it in its own thread.
    Edited by Drothvader#1215 on 5/10/2013 5:19 PM PDT
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