Diablo® III

Gold cap and BoA Gear are now necessary.

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05/10/2013 07:40 PMPosted by Drothvader
It still has yet to be relayed in a logical fashion.


Really?

The information that went against your argument wasn't relayed any less logical than your own original post. Some of the points of why BoA and price ceilings hurt were laid out in front of you in a reasonable fashion.
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05/10/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Drothvader
No, what I want is a system where playing the game actually has a point behind it.


It takes you a month to grind out 10 million gold. Your playtime is around 800 hours, yet your kill count is extremely low. You have yet to find any good items. Are you still doing boss runs or something?

The point of the game is to collect treasure, and you're incredibly inefficient at it. You waste a lot of time, and you aren't being rewarded for your effort, so you're lashing out asking for game changers. Start doing tighter runs other people do, use your big brain to plot out your own efficient ways to get items. It will payoff, and you'll feel much better.

Think of it this way: Diablos like vanilla WoW, where you had to do countless dungeons and raids to get the item you wanted. It might happen your first try, it might take months. But when you finally got that item it was a rush.

But BoA freebies in D3 are more like LFR epics, where you get em right away and you're like, "Meh, cool I guess."
Everything is so messed up right now
lol! Droth honestly thinks he debates with logic and not rhetoric. Too rich!
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05/10/2013 08:31 PMPosted by Shrew
It takes you a month to grind out 10 million gold. Your playtime is around 800 hours, yet your kill count is extremely low. You have yet to find any good items. Are you still doing boss runs or something?

I don't usually play just one specific character.

I've gone up over 1,000 elite kills and 11 Paragon levels in the last 3 days because I've been mostly having fun playing my Barbarian.

Elite kills and all that junk really don't mean much other than I can pump hours into one character.

Anyway, I am planning on making a video to clearly demonstrate what I'm talking about because I think most of the issue here is people are having a hard time understanding me.

Effectively communicating what's on my mind is not really my strong suit. I think a video demonstration detailing everything would be much more sufficient.

(I also promise I'm not going to use Power Point and talk like Ben Stein)
Edited by Drothvader#1215 on 5/10/2013 10:16 PM PDT
05/07/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Eddizel
I'm tired of caring, game died today as far as I'm concerned.
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LOL these guys will never agree with you they just want an easy way to make money off of the game.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not just armory trolling you for the sake of it. But you've always been incredibly frustrated with your time invested= time rewarded model.

So in my eyes, it might just be that your not playing in a way that gives you the best probability at getting good items.
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05/10/2013 10:15 PMPosted by Drothvader
(I also promise I'm not going to use Power Point and talk like Ben Stein)


Could you make sure to turn game sounds off or at least down this time? Your mic is fine, it's just that your game's sounds drowned you out in the last video you made. :/

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not just armory trolling you for the sake of it. But you've always been incredibly frustrated with your time invested= time rewarded model.

So in my eyes, it might just be that your not playing in a way that gives you the best probability at getting good items.


One shouldn't have to put in thousands of hours with multi-millions of kills (and hundreds of thousands of elite kills) just to be efficient. At that point the game is clearly badly designed since the time vs. reward is so skewed. I don't think many of us are really asking for Torchlight 2 drop rates, which are on the opposite end of the spectrum vs. D3 and just as absurd in just how much you can get), but something in between, more along the lines of what D2 had going for it.

One shouldn't have to run the "best route evar!" just to have any chance at loot. That's just stupid design right there, and exactly what we hope the developers are moving away from with each patch going forward.
05/10/2013 10:43 PMPosted by TheTias
One shouldn't have to put in thousands of hours with multi-millions of kills (and hundreds of thousands of elite kills) just to be efficient.


So you want to be efficient without a high kill rate per hour?

You can't have it both ways. You can't kill slow and be efficient.

For example we have my own account. 50k elite kills with less than 500 hours played. Efficient.

Then we have MvP Drothvader with 16k elite kills and over 800 hours played. WTF.

When you compare the two, the level of efficiency difference is exactly 500%. That is monstrous. That means it takes Drothvader 5 hours of farming to match the loot of my 1 hour. I don't do 5 times his E-DPS so the problem isn't just in gear, it is the person piloting the account. Take some responsibility and stop blaming the game if your'e inefficient.

It is annoying to hear people say "i shouldn't have to kill fast to get better loot " WTF kind of logic is that? Its lines like that that come from the MvPs that really annoy people. We see "MvP" and it makes us think that that player must be really informed about Diablo 3. Then they say things like that and make off-the-wall suggestions in favor of their own amateur view of the game.
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 5/10/2013 11:31 PM PDT
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05/10/2013 11:25 PMPosted by Chillaxin
So you want to be efficient without a high kill rate per hour?


Please do try to understand that you can have a high number of kills spread out over a much longer period of time than say, somebody farming like it's going out of style with identical kills in a shorter time.

05/10/2013 11:25 PMPosted by Chillaxin
You can't have it both ways. You can't kill slow and be efficient.


Actually, you can be efficient. Efficiency isn't always just time related, it can be accumulated total related as well, or both. The problem here is that even with high totals such as what I have accrued have netted me virtually nothing of my own and I've been forced into the AH for most of my gear outside of crafting.

Then we have MvP Drothvader with 16k elite kills and over 800 hours played. WTF.

When you compare the two, the level of efficiency difference is exactly 500%. That is monstrous. That means it takes Drothvader 5 hours of farming to match the loot of my 1 hour. I don't do 5 times his E-DPS so the problem isn't just in gear, it is the person piloting the account. Take some responsibility and stop blaming the game if your'e inefficient.


And I have roughly 50k elite kills with nearly 900 hours played. Half as efficient in terms of time, but time doesn't matter here, only the loot per kill ratio.

05/10/2013 11:25 PMPosted by Chillaxin
It is annoying to hear people say "i shouldn't have to kill fast to get better loot " WTF kind of logic is that? Its lines like that that come from the MvPs that really annoy people.


Again, speed is irrelevant. It just means you get the same number of total kills faster. The only thing that matters is the loot per kill ratio. That's what's out of whack for a vast majority of the players.
Edited by TheTias#1192 on 5/10/2013 11:34 PM PDT
05/10/2013 11:31 PMPosted by TheTias
Efficiency isn't always just time related, it can be accumulated total


That isn't how efficiency works.

If we both build 1 building and I construct it within 1 week but it takes your company 5 weeks. Then we all know who is more efficient.

When comparing efficiency you compare the time it took to achieve the effort. You can't remove time from the formula.

05/10/2013 11:31 PMPosted by TheTias
Please do try to understand that you can have a high number of kills spread out over a much longer period of time than say, somebody farming like it's going out of style with identical kills in a shorter time.


I completely understand that "identical kills in a shorter time" is much more efficient.
You're throwing a lot of arbitrary numbers around comparing a barb, who is generally going to have slower kills at a higher mp with a (slightly higher drop rate) versus a demon hunter, who is going to thrash lower mps quickly and pre-1.0.8 net more elite kills and loot depending on their relative gearing levels.

Once the barb starts killing fast in MP10 the DH gets blown away of course.

Way too many variables either way, but I could see a case for slower kills (on higher MP) being more efficient IF the drop rates made up for it, which seems to be part of the OP's point. At some point you can run into a damage or survivability ceiling where faster kills aren't that much faster anymore and it becomes more about drop rates.

The real point we're going to keep coming back to is that the AH eclipses the gameplay for people who want to progress. The loot system (and IMO skill diversity, to support more different types of loot) need to both be improved to make that game more fun than the AH game.
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When comparing efficiency you compare the time it took to achieve the effort. You can't remove time from the formula.


When it's purely a numbers game, yes, you can actually. Assuming drop rates are the same, if you both have the same number of total kills, then your per kill loot ratio should be relatively well aligned. In this case it isn't about player efficiency, but drop rate efficiency.

05/10/2013 11:41 PMPosted by Chillaxin
I completely understand that "identical kills in a shorter time" is much more efficient.


OK, you're just arguing semantics here at this point. You had some really good suggestions posts going a few pages back. Why must you argue with every last little thing someone says that you somehow don't agree with? At this point you're becoming more of a person who just likes to attack others to make himself look good than a constructive poster.

I'm going to put this as bluntly as I can, since it hasn't yet sunk into your thick skull: Get over yourself. Either stop arguing in every thread you come into or stop posting, one of the two. I know you have the capability to be really productive - I saw it in some of your posts here, yet you continue to revert back to simply attacking anybody else's posts that don't fit your definition of what "should be".

Tolerance of your constant bickering and dragging others through the mud has reached its limit. If you want to disagree, that's cool with me. But it's about time you learned how to disagree in an adult manner.
05/11/2013 12:37 AMPosted by TheTias
At this point you're becoming more of a person who just likes to attack others to make himself look good than a constructive poster.


'm going to put this as bluntly as I can, since it hasn't yet sunk into your thick skull: Get over yourself. Either stop arguing in every thread you come into or stop posting, one of the two.


05/11/2013 12:37 AMPosted by TheTias
Tolerance of your constant bickering and dragging others through the mud has reached its limit. If you want to disagree, that's cool with me. But it's about time you learned how to disagree in an adult manner.


Awful hypocritical don't you think? Mr. Kettle...
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I love how you can have a group of guys with invariably different opinions go at it for days, weeks or even months because they just don't understand the simple fact that there is no one right answer.

I would say, however, as I did earlier in the thread, that BoA isn't the way you fix things (according to MY personal opinion which could be wrong or lacking in foresight) but rather good gold/item sinks which we currently don't have. I do support gold caps though. Nobody needs more than about 10 billion gold for anything, ever. I don't believe that any item should get sold for amounts that high outside of maybe trading multiple items that combine for a higher value. It just gives people more reason to buy gold from botters and we don't need that. Why can't anyone ever get an amazing item and actually keep it instead of trying to jack the price up and sell it to someone else for an additional 16% so they stay in the black?

And yes, Droth, as well as Tias or any other active, passionate poster, has been quite guilty of putting out his opinions as gospel that happen to either be highly flawed, in-congruent with the nature of the game or just lacking any good empirical evidence and then getting upset when a bunch of folks come round to tell him as much. This isn't much different than most of the other guys who are very vocal around here; it happens. When you're right you're right...but sometimes you're wrong. Then sometimes you're just in disagreement and everyone's wasting their time by bickering. =)
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Somewhat disagree with the gold cap, though I think the reasoning behind it is generally sound. Wholeheartedly agree that everything should be BoA.
Edited by Thrull#1601 on 5/11/2013 3:37 AM PDT
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