Diablo® III

Mechanics And Game Information Compendium

(Sticky)

07/11/2013 07:42 PMPosted by Covenant
Just a random question (didn't want to start a new thread for it), does anyone know if the Tal Rasha's 2 piece set bonus buffs the damage of a Sparkflint familiar?

I would guess so. But that's like an additional 0.6% weapon damage per Sparkflint projectile. Soo...

@Nubtro: I think you're right. More tests/data probably wouldn't help at this point.
No idea how to proceed though. I tried to figure out how a simple algorithm might be designed to match the data. And I thought about how a simple algorithm might be screwed up so it accidentally gives those results.
Because those are the two most likely options I guess.
But I didn't get very far. With my last Perl script, I think I can predict the low points and with a little cheating also the high points for given CC/proccoef values. But overall the pattern just doesn't match.

[edit]Oh, did anyone watch the GDC talk of Wyatt Cheng? http://gdcvault.com/play/1017794/Through-the-Grinder-Refining-Diablo
From a theorycrafters point of view, the part about controls/command queuing was kind of interesting. Except he said normal combat animations are usually between 18 and 28 frames long. Umh...
Edited by apo#2677 on 7/12/2013 11:54 AM PDT
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Yeah that was really interesting from a researcher perspective. Also the part about 3 parts of an animation where you´re able to skip the last part (stutter-stepping).

I´d have to focus my research on the individual parts of the animation sequence to figure it out, but I believe those 18-28 frame values are meant for queuing purposes. I believe he was talking about how the player is aware of what he clicked last and if it was 0.3-0.5 second before or something like that. This stuff has probably something to do with how the game decides whether and when to stop using a skill (for example after you stopped channelling it).

Also the primary/secondary skill stuff we know about (like Diamond Skin being secondary and not stopping the cast of a primary skill etc.) we just didn´t know the reasoning behind that. Cool.

After watching the skill tree process (lol they went through a lot of stuff) I understand why some runes do what they do despite many of them not making much logical sense at first sight. Basically they gave a specific name to the previous rune system with the 5 different runes (alabaster etc.) because they got feedback from testers that keeping runes in your inventory was tedious.

Understanding the thought process could give us a better shot at providing suggestions to improve the game with a higher chance to be acknowledged, considering the ending, which was kind of disappointing, because he basically said they have a philosphy and they´d only consider (outside/community) ideas if they fall into their philosophy...

The issue is that I´d love to hear more about what they want from the game and the skill mechanics (I got that the highest priority is skills have to feel amazing for example) to give meaningful feedback but right now that´s too vague and just gives them the opportunity to discard ideas on a subjective "not our philosophy" basis...
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 7/12/2013 3:33 PM PDT
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Yeah, communication is rather difficult around here.
I wish there was more talking instead of just one way communication. I mean I know I can't just skype Wyatt. And I really don't want them to reply to every "disable AH now" thread.
But right now the best we can hope for is a community manager telling us that they have forwarded a suggestion. And that's not really helpful. As you said, we want to know why they did or didn't do something. Why they chose one idea over the other.
Just a bit more feedback would be nice.

PS: Updated a few things earlier. Worked a bit on the breakpoints chapters to better reflect what we know so far. And I decided to remove the Paralysis mystery, because well, it doesn't seem to be mysterious at all. It simply sucks because lightning spells proc coefficients suck.
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Melee damage types

I'm wondering since arcane affix is melee, what about ghom's poison cloud?
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Good question, I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd say no.
You can test this with Ice Armor - Crystalize. Or I will, when I get a chance to.
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I have a couple of notes and questions at the same time.

1. You should add a bit more info to the Blizzard description, namely LoH heals that occur on the crit rolls (as well as APoC) - as you know the last Blizzard change was giving APoC triggering possibility. It´s like RoF basically without the tick scaling with aps part.

2. Here´s some of my Meteor research, use whatever you find fitting.
METEOR
-> DoT stacks
MOLTEN IMPACT
-> initial 390% (260%*1.5) weapon damage as fire
-> 0.5% (60%*1.5/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
STAR PACT
-> initial 260% weapon damage as arcane
-> 0.33% (60%/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
METEOR SHOWER
-> 7 meteors each 104% (260%*0.4) weapon damage as fire
-> 0.13333% (60%*0.4/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for each meteor
COMET
-> initial 312% (260%*1.2) weapon damage as cold
-> 0.4% (60%*1.2/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
LIQUEFY
-> initial 260% weapon damage as fire
-> 0.33% (60%/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
-> if initial crits, duration prolonged to 8 seconds instead of 3

3. Living Lightning.
-> 5 ticks * 10.5% (150% * 0.35/5) weapon damage

4. Party buff/debuff stacking.
Do you have a link of data from people testing party buffs/debuffs stacking/overwriting?

I´ve tested Warcry and Inspiring Presence from two Barbs for example and they don´t stack. For Warcry, not even different runes stack. I don´t understand why the IAS bubble would stack, it´s not only the same skill but the same rune. That´s kind of unfair :)

Also, what about Conflagration itself and from two wizards? Judging by your description a debuff shouldn´t stack so it would be a waste on 2 wizards. Anyway, it would be cool if you added "stacks in a party" or "doesn´t stack in a party" description to the buff/debuff list.

Just asking in case there´s data so that I don´t have to research stuff myself :)

5. Cold Blooded related and the whole frozen/chilled issue. Anyone have a list of all the various debuffs and their effects? I mean stuff like cold damage/snare (40? 60%? 80% ms), chill (ms+aps?), frozen...cold damage itself does trigger cold blooded, right?

6. This has been bugging me for a while now. What´s the point of Frozen Storm? Is there something obvious I´m missing?

7. Kind of a theorycrafting question...at 1.90 aps, is there a build that would deal more dps against single targets(bosses) and ubers than something like this?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#bSjieT!eTW!cZaYbb
Dynamo Sparkflint, Dynamo Thunder Storm, Dynamo Hydra and channeling Dynamo Mines. Or would a Sleet Storm/Storm Blast channeling with CM and Chain Reaction be better? I mean at that aps Mines deal 40% more dps than SS/Blast.
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07/19/2013 06:29 AMPosted by Nubtro
6. This has been bugging me for a while now. What´s the point of Frozen Storm? Is there something obvious I´m missing?


It doesn't take an attack turn, against large packs it returns more AP than it costs, it can proc CM, and it applies Cold Blooded. Frost Hydra seems like the better choice to apply CB in builds that don't use Blizzard, Ray of Frost, Comet, or high uptime FN, but with Frozen Storm you're also getting the 12% melee damage reduction and the occasional freeze from Ice Armor itself. The bad thing is that it's pretty much useless on single target stuff if the build uses other high AP spenders since it then becomes difficult to sustain. But I guess against a single target melee mob they'll get chilled or frozen from Ice Armor itself so CB will pretty much always be applied to them, so no need to cast it.

Personally I hate the spell because it means one more button to spam. Plus against large packs you don't really have AP issues, so the APoC returns are overkill. The CM procs can be nice, but you're already getting a ton of procs against large packs with most things.
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I have a couple of notes and questions at the same time.

1. You should add a bit more info to the Blizzard description, namely LoH heals that occur on the crit rolls (as well as APoC) - as you know the last Blizzard change was giving APoC triggering possibility. It´s like RoF basically without the tick scaling with aps part.

Well the current description is "DoT ticks 4 times per second, not affected by attack speed. Every tick can crit individually." That kind of implies what you said. There's LoH for each of those ticks, crit rolls+APoC. Okay, I suppose I could list all those effects.

2. Here´s some of my Meteor research, use whatever you find fitting.
METEOR
-> DoT stacks
MOLTEN IMPACT
-> initial 390% (260%*1.5) weapon damage as fire
-> 0.5% (60%*1.5/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
STAR PACT
-> initial 260% weapon damage as arcane
-> 0.33% (60%/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
METEOR SHOWER
-> 7 meteors each 104% (260%*0.4) weapon damage as fire
-> 0.13333% (60%*0.4/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for each meteor
COMET
-> initial 312% (260%*1.2) weapon damage as cold
-> 0.4% (60%*1.2/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
LIQUEFY
-> initial 260% weapon damage as fire
-> 0.33% (60%/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for 3 seconds
-> if initial crits, duration prolonged to 8 seconds instead of 3

Yeah, I should definitely add more detail to Meteor. Don't think I will include damage numbers though. There's no real surprise there, everything fits the tooltip description.
[edit]"0.13333% (60%*0.4/180) weapon damage DoT per frame for each meteor"
You sure about that? As far as I know Shower DoTs only last 2 seconds, not 3. So shouldn't it be 60*0.4/120?


3. Living Lightning.
-> 5 ticks * 10.5% (150% * 0.35/5) weapon damage
That depends. I haven't tested it personally, but there are reports of LL hitting up to 11 times on Ghom. And up to 8 times with perfect distance to a normal sized target.
The damage is higher than what Loroese reported here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7864756550#18


4. Party buff/debuff stacking.
Do you have a link of data from people testing party buffs/debuffs stacking/overwriting?

I´ve tested Warcry and Inspiring Presence from two Barbs for example and they don´t stack. For Warcry, not even different runes stack. I don´t understand why the IAS bubble would stack, it´s not only the same skill but the same rune. That´s kind of unfair :)

Also, what about Conflagration itself and from two wizards? Judging by your description a debuff shouldn´t stack so it would be a waste on 2 wizards. Anyway, it would be cool if you added "stacks in a party" or "doesn´t stack in a party" description to the buff/debuff list.

Just asking in case there´s data so that I don´t have to research stuff myself :)

I don't have a link. Tested a few things myself, read about other things on various occasions.
Conflagration from multiple Wizards shouldn't stack.
The reason why the IAS bubble stacks might be that it's an area effect and not bound to a player. I don't know, does Big Bad Vodoo stack? I think I recall different runes might.
Other than the IAS bubble, I think Wizards don't even have any group buffs. But yeah, now that you say it, my comment on party buffs is misleading. Will change that.

5. Cold Blooded related and the whole frozen/chilled issue. Anyone have a list of all the various debuffs and their effects? I mean stuff like cold damage/snare (40? 60%? 80% ms), chill (ms+aps?), frozen...cold damage itself does trigger cold blooded, right?

I don' know if such a list exist. But I thought about adding a chapter on CC resistance. This would fit right in.
Cold damage causes some kind of chill (don't know if it's the same chill you can get as a proc on gear) and does trigger CB.

6. This has been bugging me for a while now. What´s the point of Frozen Storm? Is there something obvious I´m missing?
Do all skills have to have a point? :P

7. Kind of a theorycrafting question...at 1.90 aps, is there a build that would deal more dps against single targets(bosses) and ubers than something like this?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#bSjieT!eTW!cZaYbb
Dynamo Sparkflint, Dynamo Thunder Storm, Dynamo Hydra and channeling Dynamo Mines. Or would a Sleet Storm/Storm Blast channeling with CM and Chain Reaction be better? I mean at that aps Mines deal 40% more dps than SS/Blast.
I'll leave that to the people who are actually playing a Wizard^^
Edited by apo#2677 on 7/19/2013 7:51 AM PDT
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Dynamo isn´t used up by Familiar nor Storm Armor, don´t know why I thought it would :/
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What the hell? When did they patch Magic Weapon - Electrify?

I am absolutely sure it used to be a simple on-hit proc dealing 10% weapon damage.

Right now it
1) Can't be proced by all spells anymore. For example it doesn't work with ET at all. I expect it will be the same spells as for Venom
2) It does 10% of the original spell's damage

So say you are attacking with Magic Missile, you have a 100% chance to deal 10% of the original 125% weapon damage to up to 3 nearby enemies. If you attack with Explosive Blast you have a 33% chance to deal 10% of the original 225% weapon damage. And so on.
This even goes so far as to include crits. If your magic missile crits, your Electrify proc will automatically deal 10% of the crit damage, not roll for a crit separately.

All based on a few quick tests, because someone on the German forums mentioned ET not procing Electrify. Will likely spend more time on that unless someone else does.

WTF Blizzard? That wasn't worth mentioning in the patchnotes?

[edit]Someone would have to verify, but I guess that would make Electrify a great choice for an Arcane Mines build.
Edited by apo#2677 on 7/19/2013 4:39 PM PDT
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3. Living Lightning.
-> 5 ticks * 10.5% (150% * 0.35/5) weapon damage
That depends. I haven't tested it personally, but there are reports of LL hitting up to 11 times on Ghom. And up to 8 times with perfect distance to a normal sized target.
The damage is higher than what Loroese reported here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7864756550#18

The damage I posted was before the patch that increased the damage of the skill but the damage per tic is still 1/5th the tooltip damage, which is about 10.5%. It's possible the 53% damage shown is round up from 52.5% which is 35% of 150, as linked above.

7. Kind of a theorycrafting question...at 1.90 aps, is there a build that would deal more dps against single targets(bosses) and ubers than something like this?http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#bSjieT!eTW!cZaYbbDynamo Sparkflint, Dynamo Thunder Storm, Dynamo Hydra and channeling Dynamo Mines. Or would a Sleet Storm/Storm Blast channeling with CM and Chain Reaction be better? I mean at that aps Mines deal 40% more dps than SS/Blast.


EB will do more dps than hydra, I think. You'll really only want to cast hydra once and unless you kill Ubers in under 15s you're wasting the skill slot for the rest of the fight duration. Also, each time you cast hydra you'd have to stack AD again before resuming your AM spam.

Otherwise, I don't think any wizard build in the game can consistently beat a build with AD+AM. Death Blossom can in theory, but it would require more than 75% of the missiles to hit for it to beat out AM. You probably get more dps out of Glass Cannon over conflag, especially since proccing conflag isn't a given for both Ubers since sparkflint only hits one mob and Storm crow might not hit both and likely won't have 100% uptime. The actual skills used to maximize damage depend somewhat on group makeup vs solo play. It's possible SA would beat out TS against 2+ mobs with 50% CC or higher. Against singles I think they're pretty close but I think TS wins out. TS gives 30% extra weapon damage per second while SA would give 3*0.5*CC*35% weapon damage (3 mines per second, 0.5 proc coef per mine). Above 57% CC that ends up being more than 30% weapon damage. Lower APS makes TS better against singles so it also depends on breakpoints to a degree.
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That depends. I haven't tested it personally, but there are reports of LL hitting up to 11 times on Ghom. And up to 8 times with perfect distance to a normal sized target.
The damage is higher than what Loroese reported here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7864756550#18

The damage I posted was before the patch that increased the damage of the skill but the damage per tic is still 1/5th the tooltip damage, which is about 10.5%. It's possible the 53% damage shown is round up from 52.5% which is 35% of 150, as linked above.

Ah, okay, that makes sense.
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Hmm, do I understand this correctly with regards to the new MW - Electrify mechanic: I noticed both DS and EB procs Electrify so what this means is that for every target hit by EB - Timebomb for example, which has a proc coefficient of 0.333, there is a 33% chance that I will get 10% damage out of the 315% weapon damage of Timebomb applied to 3 targets? That is potentially huge amounts of damage when applied to big groups of mobs, no?
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So I just tested this with Electrify and Timebomb and it is indead 10% out of the 315% for timebomb and another thing I noticed is that the Tal Rasha 3 set bonus is applied. Crit hit from Timebomb hit for 519489 x 0.1 x 1.03 = 53507.367 rounded to 53507 Electrify hit.

Might be time to try and get some loh on rings/amu or a ls weapon and go with Electrify instead of Blood Magic for trash farming...

And while I'm at it I might aswell debunk the myth I've seen floating around that Electrify has a small range from where it can proc in relation to your self with this image: http://i.imgur.com/65l7RA4.jpg in which you can clearly see Electrify procing from a Timebomb explosion going off right off of the edge of a standard 1920 screen.
Edited by Mental#2776 on 7/20/2013 10:52 AM PDT
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Yes, for all spells that still proc Electrify, it's a buff.
But the thing is, not all spells proc it. Most importantly, WW doesn't.

So previously in SNS, it was like 10 twisters up, each with 6 ticks/s. That's 60*0.125=7.5 procs/s per target, each dealing 10% weapon damage. 75% weapon damage right there.
And that's not even including FN, DS or EB.
You can't surpass that with DS and EB alone.

As I said, Arcane Mines is the only build I can think of that really benefits from the change.
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Yeah, it might definitley be as you say but the changes also have the upside of being more rewarding of lower BP/high CC setups with high weapon damage since it's based off of the actual spells damage that procs it. So what I lose in WW procs I might gain back in increased damage from the actual spells procing Electrify. Not sure how to do the math on it so I'm just gonna have to test and see if I can get better kills/min with Electrify as opposed to Blood Magic.

If it turns out to be better then awesome, if not then nothing has really changed from before with regards to CM/WW builds. There is also a small upside with WW not procing Electrify in that it wont destroy your computer now :p
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Well, if you´re trash farming, go try Arcane Orb. I´m serious, Arcane Nova procs Electrify like crazy and the whole screen is affected.

I have a question about Shocking Aspect though. What exactly does it do? What should I look for? I only see the Storm Armor lightnig bolt.

EDIT: You should make a list of all skills that work with it. I mean Electrify.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 7/20/2013 12:32 PM PDT
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Well, if you´re trash farming, go try Arcane Orb. I´m serious, Arcane Nova procs Electrify like crazy and the whole screen is affected.

I have a question about Shocking Aspect though. What exactly does it do? What should I look for? I only see the Storm Armor lightnig bolt.


Yeah, I gave it some more thought and basically Electrify competes with Force weapon as a damage alternative imo and if Electrify is going to be a viable option the end result needs to be more than a 5% damage increase overall. So for example when it comes to Timebomb it will proc Electrify on every third target and dealing 10% lighting to 3 targets in an ideal stituation making it approximatly a straight up 10% damage increase for that particular spell. Not the same with DS for example which only has a proc coefficient of 0,167 making it proc Electrify on every sixth target for a total damage increase of 5% in an ideal situation, and of course WW and SA being completely uneffected by Electrify I think Force Weapon will win out for a SNS setup.

I'm gonna look for other skills aswell besides Arcane Orb, basically high proc coefficient spells are the ones that will stand to benefit the most from Electrify.

SA does have a small graphics effect when procing other then the bolts from the sky but they are really hard to see what with everything else going on when playing SNS. It also is range limited and will only proc on the mobs nearest you.
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07/20/2013 12:20 PMPosted by Nubtro
EDIT: You should make a list of all skills that work with it. I mean Electrify.

It's the same as the ones listed for Venom:
Weapon/Fist Attack (no skill), all signature spells, Arcane Orb, Arcane Torrent, Frost Nova, Wave of Force, Explosive Blast, Teleport - Calamity, Meteor (impact only), Archon Arcane Strike, Archon Arcane Blast

Diamond Skin - Diamond Shards also works with Electrify, I'm not sure if I just missed that when testing Venom.

But yeah, I will definitely include that in the next update.
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So I did a couple of runs in FoM using Electrify and compared it to Force Weapon and it seems, for me atleast, to be better than Force Weapon and definitely better than the old Electrify. It might be because I'm at the 2.31 BP and high sheet dps and against huge packs of trash your edps is heavily skewed towards DS and especially EB. Can't really explain it any other way and compared to earlier when WW proced Electrify it is much much smoother running, no computer deaths in sight. Have yet to try it with other builds but for no-freeze SNS trash farming I think all told it is definitely a buff, not huge but still, compared to earlier.
Edited by Mental#2776 on 7/20/2013 3:54 PM PDT
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