Diablo® III

Why is increased monster density ONLY inferno?

Posts: 1,026
the difficulty levels are kinda irrelevant though, i twinked my barb out so much while i was leveling him that i was playing the game on mp10 from normal to inferno, and i did it with only about 40m gold along the way. anyone can do that now, and for less money too.
Elaborate on how you utilized Monster Power for the other difficulties.
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Wow reading threads like these make me hate the community.

But on a positive note, I'd love if the monster density was tied to MP.

New players don't know the option is there. If they find the MP toggle accidentally and throw it on they'll get destroyed and will either realize not to hit that button again or be called to best the challenge. No real downside there.

And experienced players get a faster more enjoyable alt leveling process.

The addition to inferno was a improvement to the game, and give us option to increase density throughout the game!
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Posts: 1,026
You have to first beat Inferno to unlock monster power and by extension, increased mob density.


Wrong. At least the first part. Go to the Options menu Gameplay Tab and click on Enable Monster Power Selection. You have it from normal if you want it.

The option doesn't go in to effect though unless you play on Inferno, or at least that's how it was explained. It was explained that enemies will all be set to level 63 at MP1 and higher so I don't see how you could play through from Normal against that lol.
Edited by SirSteel#1419 on 5/14/2013 11:32 PM PDT
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05/14/2013 11:31 PMPosted by Decapitator


Wrong. At least the first part. Go to the Options menu Gameplay Tab and click on Enable Monster Power Selection. You have it from normal if you want it.

The option doesn't go in to effect though unless you play on Inferno, or at least that's how it was explained. It was explained that enemies will all be set to level 63 at MP1 and higher so I don't see how you could play through from Normal against that lol.

If you start a new character, you can put it on MP10 for that character. On Normal. Do you really think the mobs are level 63 like that?

You don't have to unlock Inferno to use MP.
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05/13/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Piffle
Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game.


I strongly disagree.

Personally, I enjoy the leveling process quite a bit, since there is constantly something new to experience. You get new skill runes to to try out every level, your appearance changes often as higher levels of armor become available and the different classes have lots of interesting dialogue.

Maybe it's just me, but I like a more relaxed leveling pace, experimenting with skill runes as they become available. I also tend to buy a matching set of new armor as soon as my level is high enough to get a new look, just to see what my character will look like
I even enjoy the conversations, learning little tidbits about the philosophies and opinions of each class.

If higher monster density while leveling becomes an option, cool, but I can't be the only one who actually doesn't enjoy powerleveling, right?
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Great question!

The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers. At the same time, we also agree that this isn’t ideal for players who have already gone through the game and are looking to start up new characters and are ready to take on additional challenges and faster pacing from the get-go.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.

please add the ability as mentioned by you..to checkbox monster denisty for lower lvl. this would make playing hardcore soooooo much funner with new characters. :)
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90 Undead Monk
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05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option


Just make it a drop down box/slider to adjust intensity like MP0-10. 0 for pre 1.0.8 density, 10 for nut to butt.
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I am not sure if this idea has been introduced to the design table, but perhaps if the 1-60 experience is slowed-down a little bit, player would have more time to deal with the 10-60 situation and may open up opportunities for group leveling play. Currently if I want to level a champion, I get to a certain point [doesn't take long] and I just turn up the MP and end up leveling quickly.
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Posts: 1,026


The option doesn't go in to effect though unless you play on Inferno, or at least that's how it was explained. It was explained that enemies will all be set to level 63 at MP1 and higher so I don't see how you could play through from Normal against that lol.

If you start a new character, you can put it on MP10 for that character. On Normal. Do you really think the mobs are level 63 like that?

You don't have to unlock Inferno to use MP.
My bad, you are indeed correct (I checked the Monster Power blog that seems to be absent from the Game Guide as well as checking it out in the game). I have no idea why I thought it was limited to Inferno :/
Edited by SirSteel#1419 on 5/15/2013 12:01 AM PDT
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I started my first HC char's before the patch went live and I went back to continue (on Nightmare mode now) and there are ENTIRE SECTIONS of the Cathedral that do not have a SINGLE MONSTER. I broke through a door and went through an entire section to another door and it was COMPLETELY EMPTY!!!

SURELY this isn't how its supposed to be! I hope they can get a hotfix out and fix it cause I was just totally shocked when the place was bone dry.
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because with buffed density and running with a buddy at NM MP10 you could level in 30 minutes?
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Maybe the monsters did not like that cathedral? :P

Seriously now. I am currently leveling some other chars.

Well playing n / nm / hell is just easy and boring for experienced players. Even @ mp10 on those difficulties is quite easy. After hitting lvl 45, it gets even more easy due to reduced level requirement stat.

One does not need max gear to do this...

Inferno, on the other hand, is way harder if you compare it to the other difficulties with chars at the level meant for that difficulty. For example use bad gear on a lvl8 char, normal, mp10 skeleton king is easy. Now try to use moderate gear on a lvl60 char, inferno, mp10. You likely won't even dent him.

If Blizzard is going to change monsters on n / nm/ hell, maybe they can also rescale the mp levels to make it not so very easy on mp10. While at it, maybe change the ilvl of the dropped as well on the higher mp levels. If you're clvl 40, lvl20 gear is quite useless.
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Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game.


I strongly disagree.

Personally, I enjoy the leveling process quite a bit, since there is constantly something new to experience. You get new skill runes to to try out every level, your appearance changes often as higher levels of armor become available and the different classes have lots of interesting dialogue.

Maybe it's just me, but I like a more relaxed leveling pace, experimenting with skill runes as they become available. I also tend to buy a matching set of new armor as soon as my level is high enough to get a new look, just to see what my character will look like
I even enjoy the conversations, learning little tidbits about the philosophies and opinions of each class.

If higher monster density while leveling becomes an option, cool, but I can't be the only one who actually doesn't enjoy powerleveling, right?


This was my experience as well in leveling: it was fun to get new runes to play around with. However, it became bland fast once I realized that most of the runes are useless, space-wasters that are never used by the majority of the community (and can't efficiently be) in inferno mode +. You need to have really top of the line gear to get some builds opened up--and even then most of the runes are still useless. Take the DH for instance: most DH's are clones of each other in inferno. Rapid fire just opened up, which is great. But, from gear to builds they all use the same thing; barbarians are worse, and wizards are horrible, too.

Simply put, leveling isn't fun when you know most runes are worthless later on (and are pretty much worthless at any point in time); leveling isn't fun when you've done the same zone several times before; and, leveling isn't fun when you run into a pack of 5 monsters every 30 seconds. I've timed it, and of course it's random, but it happens regularly at lower difficulty levels outside the nauseating halls of Act 3's Keep.

Mob density was one of the best changes to Diablo 3 so far--granted it should've been there to begin with, especially having D2 as a template--and I'm surprised it takes this much contemplation to add it in for lower difficulties.

If it's fun to fight chaotic waves of enemies in inferno, why wouldn't it be a great experience in lower difficulties?

If it's a great experience you're wanting to give new players, don't hesitate on giving it to them 14 hours + of game time in when they've done the same, barren act 3 times over.

Still, thanks for the mob density changes in Inferno; I'll take what I can get.
Edited by DoctaPlaya#1413 on 5/15/2013 2:19 AM PDT
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05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
we don’t have anything to share just yet


This could the motto for Blizzard.
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When I played the Beta I fought my good fights and I had fun. When the game went live you decreased the overall difficulty and then made it ridicolously easy. Skills are all the same during Normal/Nightmare/Hell because the monsters die so easily that you cannot even apply any form of strategy. There's no really increase in difficulty. Nightmare Hell and Inferno are just that, level grinding. No new content, no new monsters, no new strategies aside from that useless skills you won't ever consider until you are 60 and well geared (maybe, not everyone can gear themselves well enough to use certain skills proficiently).

I understand when you're talking about new player experience, but any casual gamer would stop their experience after ending the game once. Casual gamers try many characters, they don't usually play higher difficulties nor they strife for achievements as more dedicated players do.

Since you implemented Monster Power, give MP 0 to casual players and MP1+ to dedicated players, please. I think MPower and MDensity were the greatest things you added since start. The only reason I decided to start a new Barbarian to feel how the game was like played at MP10 from the start.

By the way, playing at MP10 with a new character is sooooo much more rewarding. I feel that's how Diablo 3 should have been from the very start. Every skill made itself useful somehow and picking a different build actually had a meaning. I suggest a try to everyone.
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[quote]

that's the lamest excuse ever. new players "who are just entering the Sanctuary for the first time" would have no business using Monster Power in the first place. .


My thoughts exactly... they need to get a hotfix out asap on this....the whole new player thing holds no water whatsoever. New players entering Sanctuary for the first time don't even know HOW to turn on monster power.
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05/14/2013 05:30 PMPosted by Saigyouji
Why are nightmare and hell treated as hand-holding experiences? Normal is definitely understandable, but why nightmare and especially hell? The four difficulty modes don't seem to serve clear purposes except to draw the leveling process out. In D2 normal was the base game, nightmare was a much tougher mode with some truly dangerous things (lightning enchanted multishot eviction aura archers, zomg), and hell was... hell. Immunities everywhere, resistances in the deep reds, etc.


Its not really unless you buy gear off the AH which can not even drop yet at that stage.
(At least it wasnt when I did it, but that was 1.0.3)
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While playing Path of Exile for the very first time, I came across a mob named Hailrake. He proceeded to freeze me in place and then one shot my character back to default league..

The moral of the story was that I learned very early in the game that I needed resists and hp to survive monsters. You don't help players by catering to their "nubness" and inability to learn the game. You build the game around a players ability to think and problem solve. This is a core philosophy problem with D3.


this so much. the devs even stated that hailrake was made to be incredibly hard for new players so they get the idea that the game isn't a walk in the park. this is what a tutorial should be. in your face so you don't forget it.

but on a more related topic: Nightmare and hell are a joke. in diablo2 i'm killing norm baal at 30 if i solo or 20 if i get rushed. and then i level at least to 40 until i get good gear to go into nightmare. same with hell. going to hell without good gear (that drops in nightmare btw) and a high level is basicly suicide. in d3 it's just a seamless transition without any walls or challenges. plus every piece of gear becomes useless if you level up. early game in d3 is just bad.
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