Diablo® III

Why is increased monster density ONLY inferno?

"The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers."

Seems kind of like a silly idea. The game already defaults to no MP, which is EZ-mode. So why not just have the density changes apply to MP1 and above, like in inferno?
Edited by Bukizzle#1560 on 5/15/2013 3:45 AM PDT
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05/14/2013 07:04 PMPosted by Torqbow
You don't help players by catering to their "nubness" and inability to learn the game. You build the game around a players ability to think and problem solve. This is a core philosophy problem with D3.

Could it be a 5 years old can do better than the internal testers.
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Need to make Nightmare, Hell and Inferno harder :)
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Personally I've always thought the 4 difficulty system to be entirely redundant. I would propose the following model

Act I: Lvl 1-15 "base difficulty"
Act II: Lvl 15-30 "harder difficulty"
Act III: Lvl 30-50 "nightmare difficulty"
Act IV: Lvl 50-60 "Hell difficulty"

Then for players who complete the game they move onto inferno. Normal was fun the first time through, leveling from 50-60 through a whole game is really boring especially since even if you use +XP gear and MP levels you eventually out level the monsters to find yourself gaining no levels for half an act then another level in a short period then no levels again.

Likewise lets make blues and rares etc... more useful again
Act I: White & superior gear only, odd blue
Act II: Mostly blue gear, odd rare
Act III: Lvl 30-50 mix of blue and rares
Act IV: Lvl 50-60 should be wearing all rares by now

Seriously non-rare tier 15 armour is pointless as are all blues unless they either appear for very specific levels OR they contain affixes you just cannot get on rares to make it a choice to use blues.

Finally cut the amount of items found down by 10% and buff their worth by 10%... it is just stupid that I find larger piles of gold on the ground than the items that I pick up. By inferno all that should be dropping is 5 & 6 affix rares and 7 & 8 affix legendaries.

Itemization: You know where this game lost the plot? making every item on every slot have similar stats. At the moment the only stats worth picking are all res, armr, CC, CD, Att Spd, Main Stat and vit +/- Str/Int... Nobody wants dex except DH/Monk. LoH, LS and Regen is a nice extra. Add more affixes that change gameplay... take DH for example... imagine a few pieces that can roll +0.5 discipline regen... or +Dis on dodge... you could build an entire build around it... sort of like what WD does with -cooldown for zombie dogs. What about wizard gear that increases the armr bonus of frost shield or adds -cooldown of wave of force so that critical mass isn't necessary. Gear that adds an extra passive slot or active skill slot?
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Who would like an MP∞ where the maps are jam-packed with demons and undead? I would love to wade through thousands of monsters on a single map (and get a kill streak in the thousands) Kind of reminds me of D2 in the cow level when I would run around and gather up all the cows and plow through them all! moo, moo, MOOOOOOOOO!
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All I'm seeing here is "We didn't bother with it". "Making the game too hard" is a laughable excuse and, frankly, so is the idea of a constant influx of "new players" by this point.
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I love answers that begin with "Great question!" Thre's never a great answer after a "great question". And once again out good friends the Devs "felt" that they should go ahead and make a choice that should belong to the players. Oh boy, they should stop feeling stuff - they're not good at it.
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05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience.


Wouldn't a new player be playing MP0 anyway? This is baffling logic.
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05/14/2013 05:30 PMPosted by Saigyouji
Great question!

The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers. At the same time, we also agree that this isn’t ideal for players who have already gone through the game and are looking to start up new characters and are ready to take on additional challenges and faster pacing from the get-go.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


Why are nightmare and hell treated as hand-holding experiences? Normal is definitely understandable, but why nightmare and especially hell? The four difficulty modes don't seem to serve clear purposes except to draw the leveling process out. In D2 normal was the base game, nightmare was a much tougher mode with some truly dangerous things (lightning enchanted multishot eviction aura archers, zomg), and hell was... hell. Immunities everywhere, resistances in the deep reds, etc.


I really agree with this. I feel that each mode should have a progression-type feel to it. Currently they do not.
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I'm just disappointed monster density isn't any better without mp :( (MP0, at least in inferno)
I agree even nm-hell could use an increase, however maybe not to the same extent
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I like the idea of making it a checkbox type toggle in the options. I'm playing my Hardcore characters through Normal MP2, for just a bit of extra challenge and reward, but I wouldn't want to have to wade through an armada of monsters just because I wanted to put a little edge on the game. If they made it a toggle, then I can play my MP2 with normal monsters and the dude who wants to carpet the highlands with corpses can do that too.
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05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game. So much time spent running through dead zones. Why did they only apply this change to Inferno? I was planning on leveling up some of my other champs after 1.08, but now I don't know.
Great question!

The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers. At the same time, we also agree that this isn’t ideal for players who have already gone through the game and are looking to start up new characters and are ready to take on additional challenges and faster pacing from the get-go.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


I'm reasonably impressed with this answer. The idea of the checkbox sounds best, as higher density comes with a different type of fun and challenge than with pure MP.
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Wow, a blue actually responded! Cool. =)

05/14/2013 10:30 PMPosted by Eonjee
If you want to level up faster, then play on higher MP levels



If higher monster density while leveling becomes an option, cool, but I can't be the only one who actually doesn't enjoy powerleveling, right?

It's not about the speed at which you level (for me, anyway). It's about actually enjoying the journey. I mean, think about it this way - the increased monster density changes seem to be almost universally applauded. Why? Because it's more fun to kill monsters than to walk around looking for monsters.

Why would that be different while leveling? I don't care how long it takes to level up, I just want to actually have fun doing it.
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Normal (1-30)
*Magic find normalized
*High Density Option
*Default difficulty slightly increased (AI:MP3 ,A2: MP4, A3:MP5, A4:MP5)
*Cannot select MP level.
*Introduce AR gear with up to 20AR from the start.

Nightmare (30-60)
*Rescaled and structured MP levels.
*Can select (MP1 -> MP5) with monster density tick-box.
*Introduce AR gear with up to 20-40AR from the start.

Hell lvl 60 (Equivalent to Inferno MP0)
*Hell only required to be beaten once on account to unlock Inferno.
*No MP selection. Can just skip it for Inferno if you wish.
*Higher Density Option
*Cannot roll reduced weapon requirement on iLvl gear. Cannot be more than 10 levels.

Inferno (MP1 -> MP5)
*Rescaled and structured MP levels.
*With high Density option, optional.
*Cannot roll reduced weapon requirements on iLvl gear. Cannot be more than 10 levels.
Edited by Techies#1508 on 5/15/2013 8:48 AM PDT
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Short Answer: They would have to address the experience adjustment in much greater detail in order make you reach 60 right around the time of beating Hell... AKA... many more man hours to figure that out. All for the part of the game that takes up 1/10000000th of everyone's interest.
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05/15/2013 08:54 AMPosted by Professional
Short Answer: They would have to address the experience adjustment in much greater detail in order make you reach 60 right around the time of beating Hell... AKA... many more man hours to figure that out. All for the part of the game that takes up 1/10000000th of everyone's interest.

Do you think they adjusted the experience when they introduced MP? Because if you set it to MP 10 the entire time you play, you're going to hit 60 well before you beat Hell.
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Yet another example of how decisions are made.
Protect the new player, well of course! But come on is it so difficult to think about all levels of players? Really? Not one person thought about making monster density an option with default set to low right from the start of defining the solution?

Preventing cheating verses not killing off HC players. So what is really more important? Some people complaining about others cheating or not being able to play HC because lag or disconnects keep killing off the toons? Think real hard on this one. Of course no one wants cheaters, but at the cost of the game not being playable for many players in HC? Both should be workable, but the choice has been made to prevent cheating.

Please consider how choices are going to effect ALL your customers and try to craft a solution for all players. Identify the major types of players you have. before changes are put into practice, ask AND answer how this solution will effect each type and THEN decide if there needs to be a better solution.
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05/14/2013 06:18 PMPosted by Veda
The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience.


You already solved this.

(Hint: MP0)

You wanna "double" the solution?


lmao had to quote it so true
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But seriously i'm confused 3/4 of the game is meant to be not hard enough to be detrimental to a new player experience? I feel like this is why inferno had to be changed so many times in the first place... Hell was supposed to be difficult and interesting with inferno being an endgame not really easy really easy really easy super hard
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05/14/2013 06:02 PMPosted by Septimus
Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


Don't you think an entire year is 'long-term' enough? :S
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