Diablo® III

ias isnt such a bad thing

So many super Wd's posting on this topic

first of all top dog zero-dog heyguys on this topic

Barry running super high EHP wd,
I think the vit is alittle over the top, id sacrifice some vit for dps,
that mitigation is just godly for 1h LS user. i myself am planning to drop 5-10k dps for about 1k armor more and 70 more ar. (going to get crit mempos+ 250vit 330 armor zunis)
his setup equivalent to a 600ar, 3k armor 5.3% ls skorn user while having much more EHP.

B25HLG running a super unique hybrid build. IDK the effectiveness because you have to break COB to summon dogs so maybe having that many -cd dogs items isnt that good.
and wth, no soulharvest for free 80k dps?
as cool as your spec is, i think you are gimping yourself in game play. D:

idk what hell I am, somewhere near the top, at least I have gg main hand+OH working on the rest of the pieces.


I mistyped there... supposed to say PB not PoB sorry if that confused you with CoB.

I personally dont like CoB due to its range but ocassionally use it when theres cm wiz in group. Yes you are right CoB doesnt synergize well with my 2 sec hybrid build.

Like what nutbro said, spraying pb on the same mob continuously doesnt kill it faster due to max stack. So I throw bear till my mana oom sac summon repeat. Hope that clear things up.
Reply Quote
poor barry
poor, incorrect, barry. :(
Reply Quote
Posts: 13
As you can see below, IAS increases the damage of channeled spells. CoB is channeled YES? The damage is combined and shown only at certain times...so you think that you didn't get extra ticks but you did.

BLUE POST information below.

Wyatt Cheng Talks About Arcane Torrent

It seems that people are not 100% sure about how Arcane Torrent works, but lucky for them Wyatt Cheng dropped by on the D3 Reddit and posted some detailed explanations. Here is what he had to say:

Is the Arcane Torrent damage per missile fired, or per second?

It's per weapon attack period, which is the same for all skills that are in this vein whether it be Tempest Rush, Whirlwind, Disintegrate, Rapid Fire, or what have you.
So, if you have a 2.0 attack speed, then your weapon attack period is 0.5 seconds, so you are doing X% weapon damage every 0.5 seconds.
This is analogous to a more standard attack such as Magic Missile or Bash, which also list their damages as per weapon attack period. It just tends to be more obvious that is what's happening in those cases because your character animates over the course of the attack period to provide clear delineation points.

Could you explain how it works specifically with Arcane Torrent and a 1.0 attack speed one?

Arcane Torrent baseline says it does 210% weapon damage. This means it does 210% weapon damage for every attack period of your weapon.
If your weapon has a 1.0 attack speed, then it means your weapon goes through one attack period every second. Therefore your attack period is 1.0 seconds, and you'll do 210% weapon damage every 1.0 seconds or 210% weapon damage per second.
If your weapon has a 1.4 attack speed, then it means your weapon goes through 1.4 attack periods every second. Therefore your attack period is 0.714 seconds, and you'll do 210% weapon damage every 0.714 seconds or 294% weapon damage per second.

Thus, if you have the mana to sustain yourself, IAS can be VERY good.
Reply Quote
As you can see below, IAS increases the damage of channeled spells. CoB is channeled YES? The damage is combined and shown only at certain times...so you think that you didn't get extra ticks but you did.

BLUE POST information below.

Wyatt Cheng Talks About Arcane Torrent

It seems that people are not 100% sure about how Arcane Torrent works, but lucky for them Wyatt Cheng dropped by on the D3 Reddit and posted some detailed explanations. Here is what he had to say:

Is the Arcane Torrent damage per missile fired, or per second?

It's per weapon attack period, which is the same for all skills that are in this vein whether it be Tempest Rush, Whirlwind, Disintegrate, Rapid Fire, or what have you.
So, if you have a 2.0 attack speed, then your weapon attack period is 0.5 seconds, so you are doing X% weapon damage every 0.5 seconds.
This is analogous to a more standard attack such as Magic Missile or Bash, which also list their damages as per weapon attack period. It just tends to be more obvious that is what's happening in those cases because your character animates over the course of the attack period to provide clear delineation points.

Could you explain how it works specifically with Arcane Torrent and a 1.0 attack speed one?

Arcane Torrent baseline says it does 210% weapon damage. This means it does 210% weapon damage for every attack period of your weapon.
If your weapon has a 1.0 attack speed, then it means your weapon goes through one attack period every second. Therefore your attack period is 1.0 seconds, and you'll do 210% weapon damage every 1.0 seconds or 210% weapon damage per second.
If your weapon has a 1.4 attack speed, then it means your weapon goes through 1.4 attack periods every second. Therefore your attack period is 0.714 seconds, and you'll do 210% weapon damage every 0.714 seconds or 294% weapon damage per second.

Thus, if you have the mana to sustain yourself, IAS can be VERY good.


First off Thank you for going and finding this info. However, my main argument was whether or not the dmg buff ramps up faster with more IAS.

"Call forth a swirl of bats that damage nearby enemies for 501% weapon damage as Fire. The damage of the bats increases by 20% every *second*, up to a maximum of 100%."

Based on what I've tested and seen from the game I would still say "NO" it doesn't I read thru some of the other tool tips that he listed as examples and none of them are worded quite like CoB. Although you may actually get more ticks per second if this blue post applies to CoB it still doesn't confirm the dmg ramp up time which is clearly stated takes 1 second per 20%.

I would think that the wording would say something like this "The damage of the bats increases by 20% on every attack/tick/cycle, up to a maximum of 100%." but since it doesn't im not so convinced.
Reply Quote
....
the ticks are combined. IAS ramps it up faster due to CoB ias breakpoints. if you have used a skorn, and then used a 1h, i don't understand how you don't know this just by playing the game.
i honestly don't understand how you don't know this info yet have been playing the game for a year. your posts hurt my face.

good thing we had true testers in wiz forum, otherwise we'd be as blind as half of this forum.

guess you don't need to worry about bps when all you do is mindlessly cast sac every other second. woo screeeeen shakin.

(i just have a thing against you zero doggers because my laptop is too crappy to handle it ;)
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 5/17/2013 2:55 AM PDT
Reply Quote
....
the ticks are combined. IAS ramps it up faster due to CoB ias breakpoints. if you have used a skorn, and then used a 1h, i don't understand how you don't know this just by playing the game.
i honestly don't understand how you don't know this info yet have been playing the game for a year. your posts hurt my face.

good thing we had true testers in wiz forum, otherwise we'd be as blind as half of this forum.

guess you don't need to worry about bps when all you do is mindlessly cast sac every other second. woo screeeeen shakin.

(i just have a thing against you zero doggers because my laptop is too crappy to handle it ;)


@lameboi
lol I'm going to send u a friend request, your like my new best friend :P
Edited by heyguyslol#1302 on 5/17/2013 5:53 AM PDT
Reply Quote
and now hes hiding behind trollings.. this hurts my face as well
Reply Quote
seems to me that IAS does increase the damage of bats. Seems like it is very effective for my WD.
As long as there are lots of monsters around It doesn't seem to hurt my mana either.
Reply Quote
....
the ticks are combined. IAS ramps it up faster due to CoB ias breakpoints. if you have used a skorn, and then used a 1h, i don't understand how you don't know this just by playing the game.
i honestly don't understand how you don't know this info yet have been playing the game for a year. your posts hurt my face.

good thing we had true testers in wiz forum, otherwise we'd be as blind as half of this forum.

guess you don't need to worry about bps when all you do is mindlessly cast sac every other second. woo screeeeen shakin.

(i just have a thing against you zero doggers because my laptop is too crappy to handle it ;)


@lameboi
lol I'm going to send u a friend request, your like my new best friend :P


send away :D if you crash my computer im going to punch you in the face tho!! haha

(it will happen, but we will get past it!)
Reply Quote
05/17/2013 06:23 AMPosted by KadaverjunkY
and now hes hiding behind trollings.. this hurts my face as well


honestly im not mad at him. some people don't understand the whole way numbers are shown in game, ticks cant be used to assess true value in channeled spells because the numbers are combined. much like LOH/Life regen/LS numbers are combined when you get randomly healed for 32k. it doesn't break it down tick by tick. people who pay attention to numbers will realize this and understand it.

seems to me that IAS does increase the damage of bats. Seems like it is very effective for my WD.
As long as there are lots of monsters around It doesn't seem to hurt my mana either.


what they will also realize, like you, is that once you get to a comfortable breakpoint with bats you will see much faster elite pack kills and notice your deaths decrease simply from having lifesteal ticking faster. faster ticks > larger ticks especially when you have 30 mobs swinging on you at once, or you need to recover from a knockback while surrounded by mobs. (imo, for the majority of people who gear 4 piece zuni it will be the 1.87-2.0 breakpoint - im at 1.99 and staying here, using my higher dmg gloves actually makes me "feel" mana issues when im at 140ish mana per sec as opposed to 124 mana per sec)

edit-

after looking at breakpoints again, i am now in 132mana channeled cost not 124. when i went up to 142 that was when i found myself in a big problem.

once again for breakpoint info and where you lie/how long it takes you to ramp up bats:

2. Cluod of Bats breakpoints that I posted here

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568960808?page=4#61

The initial damage tick always happens on frame 10 after you click the skill. You´ll deal 250% weapon damage (not DPS displayed in your inventory) on the initial tick. All subsequent ticks scale depending on your aps and deal

#2: 250% * 1.2 = 300% weapon damage
#3: 250% * 1.3 = 325% weapon damage
#4: 250% * 1.4 = 350% weapon damage
#5: 250% * 1.5 = 375% weapon damage
#6: 250% * 1.6 = 400% weapon damage
#7: 250% * 1.7 = 425% weapon damage
#8: 250% * 1.8 = 450% weapon damage
#9: 250% * 1.9 = 475% weapon damage
#10: 250% * 2.0 = 500% weapon damage
#11: 500% weapon damage
#12: 500% weapon damage
etc. until you stop channeling

Note that if you really only care about a single and fast calculation related to your damage displayed in your inventory, just multiply that value by 10 and you get a rough DPS (albeit inaccurate) with maximum Cloud of Bats.

CLOUD OF BATS
attacks per second - frame length per tick - ticks per second (frequency) - channeling mana cost per sec - time until max damage
0.90000-0.90909 aps - 33 frames - 1.82 ticks - 60 mana - 5.12 sec (307 frames)
0.90910-0.93750 aps - 32 frames - 1.88 ticks - 62 mana - 4.97 sec (298 frames)
0.93751-0.96774 aps - 31 frames - 1.94 ticks - 64 mana - 4.82 sec (289 frames)
0.96775-1.00000 aps - 30 frames - 2.00 ticks - 66 mana - 4.67 sec (280 frames)
1.00001-1.03448 aps - 29 frames - 2.07 ticks - 69 mana - 4.52 sec (271 frames)
1.03449-1.07142 aps - 28 frames - 2.14 ticks - 71 mana - 4.37 sec (262 frames)
1.07143-1.11111 aps - 27 frames - 2.22 ticks - 74 mana - 4.22 sec (253 frames)
1.11112-1.15384 aps - 26 frames - 2.31 ticks - 77 mana - 4.07 sec (244 frames)
1.15385-1.20000 aps - 25 frames - 2.40 ticks - 80 mana - 3.92 sec (235 frames)
1.20001-1.25000 aps - 24 frames - 2.50 ticks - 83 mana - 3.77 sec (226 frames)
1.25001-1.30434 aps - 23 frames - 2.61 ticks - 87 mana - 3.62 sec (217 frames)
1.30435-1.36363 aps - 22 frames - 2.73 ticks - 90 mana - 3.47 sec (208 frames)
1.36364-1.42857 aps - 21 frames - 2.86 ticks - 95 mana - 3.42 sec (199 frames)
1.42858-1.50000 aps - 20 frames - 3.00 ticks - 99 mana - 3.17 sec (190 frames)
1.50001-1.57894 aps - 19 frames - 3.16 ticks - 105 mana - 3.02 sec (181 frames)
1.57895-1.66666 aps - 18 frames - 3.33 ticks - 110 mana - 2.87 sec (172 frames)
1.66667-1.76470 aps - 17 frames - 3.53 ticks - 117 mana - 2.72 sec (163 frames)
1.76471-1.87500 aps - 16 frames - 3.75 ticks - 124 mana - 2.57 sec (154 frames)
1.87501-2.00000 aps - 15 frames - 4.00 ticks - 132 mana - 2.42 sec (145 frames)

2.00001-2.14285 aps - 14 frames - 4.29 ticks - 142 mana - 2.27 sec (136 frames)
2.14286-2.30769 aps - 13 frames - 4.62 ticks - 153 mana - 2.12 sec (127 frames)
2.30770-2.50000 aps - 12 frames - 5.00 ticks - 165 mana - 1.97 sec (118 frames)
2.50001-2.72727 aps - 11 frames - 5.45 ticks - 180 mana - 1.82 sec (109 frames)
2.72728-3.00000 aps - 10 frames - 6.00 ticks - 198 mana - 1.67 sec (100 frames)
3.00001-3.33333 aps - 9 frames - 6.67 ticks - 220 mana - 1.52 sec (91 frames)
3.33334-3.75000 aps - 8 frames - 7.50 ticks - 248 mana - 1.37 sec (82 frames)
3.75001-4.28571 aps - 7 frames - 8.57 ticks - 283 mana - 1.22 sec (73 frames)

the two bolded lines are what i believe are the absolute best ticks for a standard crit zuni helm 4 piece setup. best for survivability and damage overall. if you use a skorn, i would stack IAS to the point where you are 1.4+ aps if you run bats.

bears i'd still do less IAS imo.
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 5/17/2013 6:47 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,517
View profile
....
the ticks are combined. IAS ramps it up faster due to CoB ias breakpoints. if you have used a skorn, and then used a 1h, i don't understand how you don't know this just by playing the game.
i honestly don't understand how you don't know this info yet have been playing the game for a year. your posts hurt my face.

good thing we had true testers in wiz forum, otherwise we'd be as blind as half of this forum.

guess you don't need to worry about bps when all you do is mindlessly cast sac every other second. woo screeeeen shakin.

(i just have a thing against you zero doggers because my laptop is too crappy to handle it ;)


lameboi, I'm going to give you some advice...

This is NOT the wiz forums. This is NOT the barb forums. This is NOT the general discussion forums.

This is the WD forums. We operate differently. If you want to be taken seriously here you'll have to tone down the drama. If you get the urge to flame, go back to the other forums.

The *old* timers (like you put it in another post) won't accept you here otherwise

There is healthy debate and then there is taking the conversation down the flame path which we don't do here.

The IAS debate is simple...get as much ias as you can handle without running out of mana.

End of debate.
Reply Quote
lameboi, I'm going to give you some advice...This is NOT the wiz forums. This is NOT the barb forums. This is NOT the general discussion forums.This is the WD forums. We operate differently. If you want to be taken seriously here you'll have to tone down the drama. If you get the urge to flame, go back to the other forums. The *old* timers (like you put it in another post) won't accept you here otherwiseThere is healthy debate and then there is taking the conversation down the flame path which we don't do here.


Rut Roh. Forum police.

The IAS debate is simple...get as much ias as you can handle without running out of mana.End of debate.


Except it's not smart guy.

Been proved by blue post that attack speed does make channeled spells tick faster and therefore improve dps with constraints to mana as you mentioned.

What is "proved" on one side of the debate with math, and on the other side with words is that the CoB damage buff applies faster with more attack speed.

Its the difference between attack speed increasing CoB damage liniarly and exponentialy. Sure if you're not interested in exactly how much damage ias gives you then the debate is over. For the rest of us the issue isn't resolved.

Having forum police try to shut down a poster for getting upset when other posters wont provide evidence about how his math is wrong and then begin trolling him is misdirected at best.

Edit: Best way to settle this and determine if the damage increase buff applies would be through life leech would it not?

Since to my knowledge life regen always ticks in 1 second intervals, that would avoid any confusion over damage ticks being seen vs. damage actually being done as the green number would tell all.

If the regen increases according to just the attacks per second or if it increases according to the formula provided could be easily assesed without the need to consort (and pray for a response from) a blue.
Edited by Thade#1574 on 5/17/2013 8:02 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,517
View profile
Its not forum police. The WD forums as different. We are small and tight nit here. We are like family. It has been that way for long time. And i'm glad that we are getting new blood in here, but I just want to put it out there that we run a different ship here.

I'm not trying to shut down anything...and i don't need math to see that when i'm running with higher attack speeds, i tick faster. It is very noticeable. However, at mp10, i also run out of mana faster. So like i said, get as much ias as you can handle without running out of mana. Common sense does not require math
Reply Quote
....
the ticks are combined. IAS ramps it up faster due to CoB ias breakpoints. if you have used a skorn, and then used a 1h, i don't understand how you don't know this just by playing the game.
i honestly don't understand how you don't know this info yet have been playing the game for a year. your posts hurt my face.

good thing we had true testers in wiz forum, otherwise we'd be as blind as half of this forum.

guess you don't need to worry about bps when all you do is mindlessly cast sac every other second. woo screeeeen shakin.

(i just have a thing against you zero doggers because my laptop is too crappy to handle it ;)


lameboi, I'm going to give you some advice...

This is NOT the wiz forums. This is NOT the barb forums. This is NOT the general discussion forums.

This is the WD forums. We operate differently. If you want to be taken seriously here you'll have to tone down the drama. If you get the urge to flame, go back to the other forums.

The *old* timers (like you put it in another post) won't accept you here otherwise

There is healthy debate and then there is taking the conversation down the flame path which we don't do here.

The IAS debate is simple...get as much ias as you can handle without running out of mana.

End of debate.


oh this is definitely not the wiz or barb forums
because in THOSE forums MATHEMATICS rules the show, not your bs "the earth is flat" style of theory crafting this class.

as far as me being accepted here by the "old timers" ? do you honestly think i care to partake in ignorant discussion based on an outdated style of play? i'm simply here to educate the newer witch doctors and theory craft based on actual breakpoints for a new spec.

i'm not here to "kiss the rings" so to speak of older WD players. Fact is I've had my WD for quite some time but the wizard forum was always much more fun to theorycraft in. Matter of fact it still is because we're now having intelligent witch doctor discussion over there too.

end of debate? sorry, breakpoints don't work that way. it isn't as simple as STACK IAS TIL YOU RUN OUT OF MANA OR DONT LOL.

jeez. facepalming hard here.

05/17/2013 07:48 AMPosted by Thade
lameboi, I'm going to give you some advice...This is NOT the wiz forums. This is NOT the barb forums. This is NOT the general discussion forums.This is the WD forums. We operate differently. If you want to be taken seriously here you'll have to tone down the drama. If you get the urge to flame, go back to the other forums. The *old* timers (like you put it in another post) won't accept you here otherwiseThere is healthy debate and then there is taking the conversation down the flame path which we don't do here.


Rut Roh. Forum police.

The IAS debate is simple...get as much ias as you can handle without running out of mana.End of debate.


Except it's not smart guy.

Been proved by blue post that attack speed does make channeled spells tick faster and therefore improve dps with constraints to mana as you mentioned.

What is "proved" on one side of the debate with math, and on the other side with words is that the CoB damage buff applies faster with more attack speed.

Its the difference between attack speed increasing CoB damage liniarly and exponentialy. Sure if you're not interested in exactly how much damage ias gives you then the debate is over. For the rest of us the issue isn't resolved.

Having forum police try to shut down a poster for getting upset when other posters wont provide evidence about how his math is wrong and then begin trolling him is misdirected at best.


oh hey look
someone gets it!
i guess there's at least one other person like me (clearly i know there are many more)
Reply Quote
05/17/2013 07:48 AMPosted by Thade
lameboi, I'm going to give you some advice...This is NOT the wiz forums. This is NOT the barb forums. This is NOT the general discussion forums.This is the WD forums. We operate differently. If you want to be taken seriously here you'll have to tone down the drama. If you get the urge to flame, go back to the other forums. The *old* timers (like you put it in another post) won't accept you here otherwiseThere is healthy debate and then there is taking the conversation down the flame path which we don't do here.


Rut Roh. Forum police.

The IAS debate is simple...get as much ias as you can handle without running out of mana.End of debate.


Except it's not smart guy.

Been proved by blue post that attack speed does make channeled spells tick faster and therefore improve dps with constraints to mana as you mentioned.

What is "proved" on one side of the debate with math, and on the other side with words is that the CoB damage buff applies faster with more attack speed.

Its the difference between attack speed increasing CoB damage liniarly and exponentialy. Sure if you're not interested in exactly how much damage ias gives you then the debate is over. For the rest of us the issue isn't resolved.

Having forum police try to shut down a poster for getting upset when other posters wont provide evidence about how his math is wrong and then begin trolling him is misdirected at best.




Group A believes IAS increases dmg buff
Group B doesnt


Sounds like your part of Group A
Edited by heyguyslol#1302 on 5/17/2013 8:04 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Its not forum police. The WD forums as different. We are small and tight nit here. We are like family. It has been that way for long time. And i'm glad that we are getting new blood in here, but I just want to put it out there that we run a different ship here.

I'm not trying to shut down anything...and i don't need math to see that when i'm running with higher attack speeds, i tick faster. It is very noticeable. However, at mp10, i also run out of mana faster. So like i said, get as much ias as you can handle without running out of mana. Common sense does not require math


listen
your ship doesn't matter.
your "forum style" doesn't matter.
the fact is this new patch has some math nerds all giddy
and we aren't going anywhere until we min/max the heck outta this class.

^_-

hope that helps.
Reply Quote
Edit: Best way to settle this and determine if the damage increase buff applies would be through life leech would it not? Since to my knowledge life regen always ticks in 1 second intervals, that would avoid any confusion over damage ticks being seen vs. damage actually being done as the green number would tell all. If the regen increases according to just the attacks per second or if it increases according to the formula provided could be easily assesed without the need to consort (and pray for a response from) a blue.


This might have gotten lost so reposting.
Reply Quote
05/17/2013 08:04 AMPosted by Thade
Edit: Best way to settle this and determine if the damage increase buff applies would be through life leech would it not? Since to my knowledge life regen always ticks in 1 second intervals, that would avoid any confusion over damage ticks being seen vs. damage actually being done as the green number would tell all. If the regen increases according to just the attacks per second or if it increases according to the formula provided could be easily assesed without the need to consort (and pray for a response from) a blue.


This might have gotten lost so reposting.


i've looked at this. you will see that the math holds up by looking at these numbers ^_^
Reply Quote
05/17/2013 08:01 AMPosted by heyguyslol
Sounds like your part of Group A


And you're still not helping.
Reply Quote
*eats popcorn*

listen
your ship doesn't matter.
your "forum style" doesn't matter.
the fact is this new patch has some math nerds all giddy
and we aren't going anywhere until we min/max the heck outta this class.

^_-

hope that helps.


Depends on what you want to min/max. I know I've spent probably more hours theory crafting and calculating my way into my current gear priorities than I've probably spent playing my character. I'm sure a lot of others have as well. I've been here since launch, and while my elite kills don't show it (pet doctor's don't exactly kill fast...), I can promise we've thought through a lot of math already.

But I'm staying out of this argument, if it's even an argument. Let's call it a heated discussion. It's far too tedious and long winded for my desired time commitment.

Also, Barry is my EHP god. :P If I could only maintain my life regen at his DPS, I'd be gold.

Edit: Stupid quotes breaking.
Edited by GamerObscura#1236 on 5/17/2013 8:23 AM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]