Diablo® III

Stop asking for "fix", WE are not broken

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Please fix your English.
We need "improvements" not a fix, there are no bug and we have a lot of skill/build variation. We have an eDPS issue, because blizz kindly buffed all the other 4 class more than they buffed us. The game was not designed to play mp10 with great efficiency, the additional buffs after release made it happen.

There are 2 game breaking class that need to be "fixed". Not us.
They are playing outside the designers' scenario.
Barbarian
100% WotB = 100% ccr + 25% ms +10% cc on top of soft cap.
Also have the highest mitigation in the game (invincible with incredible gears.)
Wizard
100% SNS = white screen, 100% crowd control and integrating dot.

The other 2 class have very high damage outputs and excess damage multipliers.
Monk
total possible damage multiplier
Active Skills
+18% +15% +15% +30% +48%
Passive Skills
+8%
Total = +134%
(require 5 active & 1 passive skills last 3 seconds)
highest possible damage dealt by skill
Wave of Light = Wall of Light = 1202% + 96%
highest possible damage dealt by skill after damage multiplier
x(100+134)/100 = 2812.68% + 224.64% = 3037.32%

Witch Doctor
total possible damage multiplier
Active Skills
+20% +20% +20% +30%
Passive Skills
+20%
Total = +110%
(require 5 active & 2 passive skills last 6 seconds)
highest possible damage dealt by skill
Sacrifice = Provoke the Pack = 275% x4 = 1100%
highest possible damage dealt by skill after damage multiplier
x(100+110)/100 = 577.5% x4 = 2310%
**Intelligence bonus from
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/soul-harvest
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/gruesome-feast
is not included, with those all skill slots will be filled.

What do we have?
We have 3 skills that can increase all our damage by 47% for 2 seconds.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/marked-for-death
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/steady-aim
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/cull-the-weak
highest possible damage dealt by skill
Spike Trap = Echoing Blast = 275% x3 = 825%
Cluster Arrow = Loaded for Bear = 304% +100% x4 = 704%
highest possible damage dealt by skill after damage multiplier
EB x(47+110)/100 = 404.25% x3 = 1212.75%
LoB x(47+110)/100 = 446.88% +147% x4 = 1034.88%

Damage to Hatred ratio
Echoing Blast 825/30 = 27.5/Hatred
Loaded for Bear 704/50 = 14.08/Hatred
Bombardment 414/3/20 = 6.9/Hatred (initial)*
Bombardment 414/3/2 = 69/Hatred (channeling)*
*added just for comparison.

What do we need?
Some skills need a lower cost, some skills need a higher damage, and some skills need a wider area of effect. Just improvements, nothing needs to be fix. WE can do better than other class, and WE did not make a mistake picking this class.

cheers,
Thank You for reading.

Skill suggestions? (one per post please, or I can't organize them.)

Perfectionist should have been this
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796269733
We need a better trade between Hatred/Disc
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796359826

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/rain-of-vengeance
Cost: 30 Hatred
Increases damage from 715% to 900% for 5 sec (180% per sec)
/Dark Cloud
change damage to 900% for 12 sec (75% per sec)
replace/ Stampede with/ Tear of Vengeance
Reduces the size of array to cover 16 yards, dealing 1260% weapon damage as Cold over 5 seconds. The array of arrows can be cast at any location.


Overall I think we need better arrow skills so we can play an archery class and not a explosive (bola, grenade, bomb, etc.) hunter.

edit: update skill list
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 5/22/2013 10:44 AM PDT
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You're just forgetting a ton of stuff, its not broken it is rock bottom of the farming classes, it means you need a lot more gear to do the same thing some classes do with half or even lower gear.
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05/19/2013 07:55 PMPosted by Tamachii
You're just forgetting a ton of stuff, its not broken it is rock bottom of the farming classes, it means you need a lot more gear to do the same thing some classes do with half or even lower gear.

Funny I don't think I missed anything, please list thanks.

I think I have pointed out the "efficiency" problem between class. Not 'more' just better gears, unless you are swapping them between attacks.
For 70% of the same gear refer to TianZi's thread
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8569598165
We got 5 class, some one will always be at the bottom, and yes we are far behind in farm speed, but we have the most fun, don't you agree? How you define fun is up to you but one simple solution is to up buff all hatred spender so we can have a better Damage to Hatred ratio

(1202+96)/75 = 17.31 (WoL)
(829+96)/40 = 23.13 (cost reduced)
(304+400)/50 = 14.08 (LoB)
(225+400)/50 = 12.50 (normal)
same aoe, WoL has additional linear damage
(14.08-17.21)/14.08 = 22.92% so buff
LoB to 865% total = 425% + 110%x4
ratio between LoB and no rune is 35% and consider the hatred gain per attack, we have 6 they have 21. Make cluster arrow base damage to
865% total = 425% + 110%x4
LoB becomes
1013.75% total = 573.75% + 110%x4
replace "shooting star" rune with a cost reduction to 30 Hatred
(425+440)/50 = 17.30 (normal)
(425+440)/30 = 28.83 (cost reduced)
(574+440)/50 = 20.28 (LoB)

Just something to think about.
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Don't think DH is broken either but we def need some tweaks. Changes i'd like to see.

- Rework/Improve some of our under-used skills (Fan of Knives and Rain of Vengeance come to my mind)

- Buff most of our Hatred spenders like they did to RF, the Weapon Damage coeficient on most of them is just too weak. Playing my monk make me realise how bad it is (hello 1million + WoL crits with a 2m Skorn equiped).

- Tone down the "Snare/Root" nerf applied to Inferno, outdated mechanic remnant of the original "and we doubled it" garbage design.

- Nerf/Rework SP:Gloom it simply do not fit in our toolkit and only encourage lazy play. With how high our damage is ATM its also imo way too powerfull.

- Replace the Steady Aim passive with something new and give it to both Wizards and Demon Hunters as a free passive (akin to the 30% damage reduction of Monks and Barbarians). Could tone it down to 10% instead of 20%.
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other than efficiency or damage to hatred ratio, blizz has to see the basic design of DH which is DPS dealer and nimble. they have to re-look the skill where DH should deal high damage in 1 or 2 shots and move around.

IMHO, they should remove rapid fire. prior patch 1.04 they removed proc in jagged spike because they don't want DH to tank. Ironically, now they buff up rapid fire and make DH to become DH tank.

my 0.01 cents
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Funny I don't think I missed anything, please list thanks.


You missed a ton. Check the link below.

Skill suggestions?


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796431467

What do we need?
Some skills need a lower cost, some skills need a higher damage, and some skills need a wider area of effect. Just improvements, nothing needs to be fix.


That's a lot of improvements to actually make the Demon Hunter more viable = fixing.
Edited by Juicypus#2757 on 5/20/2013 3:35 AM PDT
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I agree with the OP, +1.

All we need is a little tweaking to our damage output. If our resource generation is buffed then the class will be overly Over Powered in the lower MP levels.

I can play MP10 just fine, it just takes to long so I tend to play MP8 instead. I rarely run out of Hatred and when I do its because of mismanagement. My punishment for my mismanagement is just a few extra seconds of battle, nothing extreme, just a few extra seconds. I don't have to fill my Hatred completely up again in order to win, a 1/4 to a 1/2 full globe will usually be all that I need to complete the battle.

If the damage output of our skills were buffed by 10% to 15% then the monsters would die long before my resource management even became an issue.

We don't need to be buffed so everyone can play MP10, we just need to be buffed so that those that can already play MP10 can do so in a timely manner.
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I kinda agree that we demon hunters need more free stats like the other classes are getting. More damage mulitpliers, more free crit/crit damage/attack speed. If you look at other classes they are simply getting way to much of those...
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At first I thought you were just hating.
Then I saw logic and math, so I gave you a thumbs up. :D
It's pretty ghastly when our max dmg is half of witch doctors, which in some places are considered worse than us.
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I agree with you OP. You supported your argument very well.

To all those who say we're supposed to be the DPS class. You're wrong. There is no one "DPS class" in D3; all classes are DPS classes. This isn't an mmo. Are we supposed to be the nimble class? You bet. :)
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 5/20/2013 8:48 AM PDT
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lol @ the OP.
Maybe you should play other classes first - there are FOUR game breaking classes by your logic
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lol @ the OP.
Maybe you should play other classes first - there are FOUR game breaking classes by your logic
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What is easier to fix, break four broken classes or fix one underpowered one?
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Shdwflare and Cyon,
I got all five so I understand somewhat which build works the best for which reason.
Barb = WotB, not just speed runs with sprint, you also can play HotA with infinite berserker, and you all know how WotB works.
Wiz = cm/ww, you defensive skills increase you damage by 30-50% at 0 cost. All your resource is converted to 100% power. ww damage 42x(5stack)/sec/35AP = 6/AP, fair low damage for its cost, the first reason why a sns wiz need over 3 aps, so they can deal 18/AP spent.
Monk = 70% of the skill was not used, blizz buff those by 200-300% to lure people to use them, as a result you now have a over-killing monk. A glass cannon class.
Witch = 'zero' dogs work as intended. The only class that runs a lv57 off-hand in combat.

I don't know if you guys have 5, but you sure don't play them.

05/20/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Iria
What is easier to fix, break four broken classes or fix one underpowered one?

hahaha, there are 3 broken class at the most, not 4. From what I have heard/read, blizz is fixing 2 and "improving" 1. As they always say changes cannot be easily applied. I'm guess 1.09 will be our last chance to get some changes, so I ask for everyone's inputs

Juicypus,
I have been on your thread, but you are making a mistake. I'm speaking to everyone that makes a long post that combine multiple topics. The CMs/Devs will not be reading them unless they are highly rated. They have ask us to give inputs short and clear, make 1 topic per post so they can better comment and address the issue at hand. Make people read a long complain/argument(claim)/testimony/stagey/thesis will be insulting and annoying if you did not have a good introduction(abstract)

use google and search up the word fix, then report back.

If there is a lot that need to be fixed as you say, for a project at hand we will just trash it. Its is faster to remake/redesign than trying to fix something that is broken.

I suggested a few improvements, not a lot, here are some
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796269733
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796359826

edit typo
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 5/20/2013 2:54 PM PDT
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They -- or I guess Wyatt -- often talks about this being the kiting class, so they seem to have some obsession with keeping that going, so they think buffing the damage would make the class too easy... or something. Which is silly, because kiting in this game rarely happens since most enemies are so fast, they're right on top of you. Perhaps if the DH's slows were 2x more effective, I could buy it. The Wizard got a nice buff to Temporal Flux and that actually slows mobs down quite well, to where you're not constantly playing kissy-face with every enemy you come across.

But right now, DH is a low damage, glass-cannon class that more often than not face tanks mobs.

I would change Caltrops to 80% slow standard. Also slightly increase the damage of Tangling Shot, to about 110% while making 4 targets standard, with 5 being the special rune, and I'd also increasing it's snare capabilities, to 80% slow for 3 seconds. Or 60% for 4 seconds.

I mean, the barb and the DH are two ends of a spectrum, and they've gotten the whole manly tank part of the bard down pat, (minus some broken builds) but the DH isn't quite at the point of agile, evasive gun-slinger...or whatever. Kiting, n' stuff. .. But it's not even about kiting, I'm just talking about keeping the enemies away from you period. And I think it requires far too much work right now than it should.

I think the game was originally designed with more tactical play in mind, but now it's just a zerg fest (for better or worse) with people front-loading max damage. I think the DH just has a lot of remnants from the old philosophy that need to get worked out.
Edited by Ignatius#1870 on 5/20/2013 11:59 AM PDT
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Monk and wd aren't broken imho, they just do a lot of damage. Stuff like that can be buffed to equal level, and then just add harder content to make the game have some challenge (which is the same as nerfing the stronger classes, but makes people cry less...). Broken is when a class can bypass game difficulty. Balancing that by giving all classes cc immunity or permanent cc skills sounds lame.
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Monk = 70% of the skill was not used, blizz buff those by 200-300% to lore people to use them, as a result you now have a over-killing monk. A glass cannon class.
Witch = 'zero' dogs work as intended. The only class that runs a lv57 off-hand in combat.


lol
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Witch = 'zero' dogs work as intended. The only class that runs a lv57 off-hand in combat.

Not sure what you're trying to say, this build is intended and 550% damage skills with limited aoe isn't op (1100% takes two attacks to pull off, so it counts as half that). The true power of this build is team utility. I've played it.
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Josef,
I never said the class is op, there is no need to apply fix to witch doctor nor monk. Builds that are doing too much and very little risk have been changed (bears). What I had on the OP is the hunter can only do 1/2 of a wd and 1/3 of a monk.

My intention was to have something similar in this class. That is something that need to be added.

btw the game need more content for longer play session but not more monster difficulty, it was pretty ugly fail when they introduced mp and buff class to deal more damage to compensate for the high life pool of the monster. More to mp is need or less to player is need. When things are hard and people complain, those are nerfed and people complain again afterwards that they got bored as they are not enjoying the game...
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I like post all that supported this topic, thank you.

Here are a few changes that might turn the table.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/impale
add The knife will pierce through all enemies in a straight line. to all rune
replace/ Overpenetration with/ Death impulse
Marks enemies with Marked for Death. The marked enemies will take 12% additional damage for the next 5 seconds.
(same duration as MfD on Calamity)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/marked-for-death
change/ Death Toll
Marks you and all allies within 12 yards. Affected targets bleed for 12% weapon damage per second. All of your attacks are empowered to deal 30% additional weapon damage as shadow energy. Attacks heal the attackers for 1% of the damage done as Life.
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