Diablo® III

Why do players think the itemization patch will...

Fix anything? It will fix absolutely nothing. Things will look better for about two weeks, then it will be all about the Mephos, and Skorns again. The reason for this, the game design is flawed. Can we please fix the foundation of the game first?

All the Itemization patch will do, is exasperate numbers even higher, highlighting the flaws more and more. I was going to post a big old wall of text post explaining in detail why the core of the game needs to be fixed before any more legendary, itemization tweaks will do anything for the game. But, naw, what good would that do anybody,
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Because the game is based around... items?
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Fix anything? It will fix absolutely nothing. Things will look better for about two weeks, then it will be all about the Mephos, and Skorns again. The reason for this, the game design is flawed. Can we please fix the foundation of the game first?

All the Itemization patch will do, is exasperate numbers even higher, highlighting the flaws more and more. I was going to post a big old wall of text post explaining in detail why the core of the game needs to be fixed before any more legendary, itemization tweaks will do anything for the game. But, naw, what good would that do anybody,


Nothing will be fixed until the slate is wiped clean, aka an expansion pack. At that point I'm sure they will raise the lvl cap, make old legendaries obsolete, etc. and start with a new base that will hopefully save whats left of this game and franchise.
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And in a week after the Xpack unless that Xpack fixes the core of the game, we'll be right back to were we are now.
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I'd be surprised if they deliver something decent.
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The well thought-out constructive posts I've seen are generally highly rated and have many positive responses. There are definitely some users who can manage a coherent post that inspires interesting/meaningful discussion. I'm not saying that the dev team acknowledges all of these posts, but at least in these small pockets of rational thought we can attempt to identify real issues and even propose interesting solutions. If nothing else you're contributing more than 99.99% of this forum's topics by attempting to start such a discussion.
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05/10/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Beast
The well thought-out constructive posts I've seen are generally highly rated and have many positive responses. There are definitely some users who can manage a coherent post that inspires interesting/meaningful discussion. I'm not saying that the dev team acknowledges all of these posts, but at least in these small pockets of rational thought we can attempt to identify real issues and even propose interesting solutions. If nothing else you're contributing more than 99.99% of this forum's topics by attempting to start such a discussion.


This is true, honestly, my original post is an off the cuff, irritated response to all the players crying for the rumored 1.0.9 itemization update, because it will fix everything. The truth of the matter is, because the core attribute system is inherently flawed, it is only a band-aid fix.

1. Using only one stat, you are left with two empty attributes that do nothing for you, this means on any roll, there will be a chance it will auto fail.

2. The fact that this one "god" stat, grants a flat 1% bonus to damage means numbers will scale astronomically, while I do agree big numbers are fun, big numbers also mean everything becomes harder to balance. And while I do agree balance isn't everything, lets say that there is a 10% margin of difference between the top DPS class, and the bottom DPS class, and the average paper dps, is sitting at 500 thousand DPS, this translates to 50k DPS difference between the top and the bottom. This honestly is a very significant difference, and the bigger the numbers get, the more meaningful, that difference becomes.

3. Blizzard opted to go with raw% increases, this issue has already bitten them in the !@#$ once, and looking at trifecta, it seems that it didn't let go when they so called "fixed" it, with a hot nerfed it by 50%, it just changed location. CHD is obscene, and quite unbalanceable, it's basicly a wildcard stat. What do I mean by a wildcard, I'm referring to it as a wildcard, because it does nothing on it's own, but it allows it's trigger to do something beyond what it should.
I personally think that blizzard should revisit it's decision to use something as fixed as a raw%, and move to a more variable ratting system, this works better for two reason, 1. it allows for hot buffs/nerfs as needed. 2. as I mentioned earlier in the post we get to see bigger numbers. Seeing 2.5% CC isn't nearly as awesome as seeing 256 Crit ratting is it?
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If that was the question, then: "YES"

Itemization is one of the cornerstones of D3 and, though it isn't universal cure, it can help, even solve a lot of ingame problems. I've been posting a lot about this topic in many forms, but I can do it yet again, in short and easy to read format, without how-to, just topics

Some things that could be fixed by itemization-only changes, in no particular order:
1. Battle-style diversity - dual-wielding gives straight 15% IAS, which is huge, 2-handers give nothing, 1-hander and shield gives nothing
2. Weapon without sockets are unusable
3. 'Trifecta' is found on way too many different item slots, other affixes that could affect playstyle in way other than pure DPS are hurt
4. Affixes rivaling 'trifecta' are scarce, both 'natural' and perhaps 'special' ones (found on future legendaries)
5. Affixes number, strength and choice is poor
6. Certain legedaries are overpowered in nature and need to be fixed


Solving any one of above will improve game considerably - probably much more than some of previous patches.

Surely, other problems people mention will remain even with perfectly done itemization (though to reach acceptable level, trial-and-error during several patches is far more likely than one universal 'itemization solver').

Core mechanics other than itemization exists. Some will meet fierce resistance if fixed. Some can be solved painlessly. But the game can be fixed, and it is my firm belief.
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1. Battle-style diversity - dual-wielding gives straight 15% IAS, which is huge, 2-handers give nothing, 1-hander and shield gives nothing
-Well this is important, this is leading back to core mechanincs and leans more towards a skill fix. The reason why Two-handed weapons are so powerful, is skill damage is based off of your weapons

2. Weapon without sockets are unusable
-This goes to the nature of the gems, the gems have to be fixed for this to work. In other words, the two biggest culprits here are Emeralds and Ruby's that both directly effect weapon damage, with a combonation of how the prime attributes scales damage. No

3. 'Trifecta' is found on way too many different item slots, other affixes that could affect playstyle in way other than pure DPS are hurt
-Trifecta is king, for two reasons, one there is no real alternative to them, and 2, Blizzard saw fit not to prevent certain types of afixes to be allowed to stack, and roll together, I think the later is the mistake

4. Affixes rivaling 'trifecta' are scarce, both 'natural' and perhaps 'special' ones (found on future legendaries)
-This is true, and not true. This goes back to poor scaling, and no rules governing how items are roled. It's just pure RNG.

5. Affixes number, strength and choice is poor
- You just repointed out point 4 again. And acually, this is incorrect, the problem is they feel lacking is because of a poor skill system, and poor scaling. Since every skill is based off of weapon damage, there is no reason to build anything besides weapon damage.

6. Certain legedaries are overpowered in nature and need to be fixed
-You have to fix all of the above first, otherwise they will still feel boring, and uninspiring, and even then, unless every legendaries, gives you trifecta, mostly garbage, because of the overwelming power those three stats have.
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It would be nice if the devs could comment here on some ideas (even if they aren't concrete) that they have for fixing these problems. Until then, I have little faith in any itemization "fixes" as the previous ones were quite shallow.
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Fix anything? It will fix absolutely nothing. Things will look better for about two weeks, then it will be all about the Mephos, and Skorns again. The reason for this, the game design is flawed. Can we please fix the foundation of the game first?


It'll never fix the current game, or indeed it don't intend to.

But it will make the PS version fun and playable on offline mode without hacking, with some adjustment on droprate and lower the cost of crafting.

Let's face it. Blizz already harvested the money when we paid the game. They did the change so we can beta test the PS version. The console market is a more serious market and no1 wanna mess with it.
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2. Weapon without sockets are unusable

Well, i don't like it (decision to allow a socket to fully determine usability of weapon), but it is here. Opportunity to socket a one hander (to max 1 socket in total) is itemization thing which lessens the difference between unusable and usable drops, which currently exist in worst 'yes' vs 'no' manner.

3. 'Trifecta' is found on way too many different item slots, other affixes that could affect playstyle in way other than pure DPS are hurt
4. Affixes rivaling 'trifecta' are scarce, both 'natural' and perhaps 'special' ones (found on future legendaries)

Yes, they are connected and chief mistake is 'trifecta' or its parts are too available. Currently, only shoulders cannot spawn any of these. If there were more slots like this, players would have to choose equipment with alternative affixes, whether they are like it or not - and improved affixes could lead to different playstyles - eg. by focusing on certain element which, if massed over several items, makes a build distinctive (excluding primary, resist all and vitality). Other than 6 mentioned affixes, rest are not even closely good enough.

5. Affixes number, strength and choice is poor

I stand behind this statement. A number of affixes is next to useless, and due to RNG they are often spawned in fully useless form. A number of affixes which could be good and useful are simply left out, or underpowered in nature.

6. Certain legedaries are overpowered in nature and need to be fixed

Needs no explanation.

Purposely, I gave no examples and left for anybody to imagine his own character - if 4 equipment slots were 'trifecta-free', what would player put in it:
a) Currently
b) If he could buff an less used affix

With proper itemization patch, game would change for the better. It wouldn't be perfect, but certainly better.
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05/10/2013 11:13 PMPosted by Mugatu
Because the game is based around... items?


Theres no enough to find in the game. In Diablo2 there was so much to find and create with items. This game just freaken blows !@# when it comes to the items. I don't think anything will help the game but the little kids and their moms credit card.
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Fix anything? It will fix absolutely nothing. Things will look better for about two weeks, then it will be all about the Mephos, and Skorns again. The reason for this, the game design is flawed. Can we please fix the foundation of the game first?

All the Itemization patch will do, is exasperate numbers even higher, highlighting the flaws more and more. I was going to post a big old wall of text post explaining in detail why the core of the game needs to be fixed before any more legendary, itemization tweaks will do anything for the game. But, naw, what good would that do anybody,


That is why the AH needs to go. No more Skorns (plural, one would be nice every once in a while).
If you could actually get your set items yourself and not having to rely on others to find it for you. Wouldn't that be NICE? And I don't mean after 2k hours. They need to multiply the droprates by 5 (why not 10) simultaniously.

Doesn't need to be the best set. Any set I can equip without losing 50% damage will do fine.
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Rivis, i agree with you.

Here are some of the problems that i think have to be solved before reworking itemization.

* Skill damage modifiers are too crazy, it should be the items that promote the build diversity not constantly buffing the skill's damage

* The entire game and its mechanics are way to simplified, you cannot have interesting stats if everything is that simple

* Monsters are not special, you just go out and out-muscle them - therefor the only think you ever want from items is more raw power

The most important think is - even if they manage to work some miracle with that patch there is no end game goal.

D2 had PvM ladder race and passionate dueling community as well as you never want someone to join your game and gang you like a n00b so getting better items and been clever about how you build your characters was very important.

In D3 you get better items for what ? killing boring easy monsters even faster ?
- no PvP community
- no hostility action
- no ladder
- no point
Edited by Vanhioss#2658 on 5/11/2013 1:46 PM PDT
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05/11/2013 12:19 PMPosted by gudlbua
That is why the AH needs to go.


I don't think AH needs to go but rather needs to be reworked
Edited by Vanhioss#2658 on 5/11/2013 1:20 PM PDT
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Items in general gives way too much stats.
Crafted gloves that can get you:
330 main stat
100 Vitality
80 All Resists
9%IAS
10% CC
50% Crit dmg

Its just way way way too much. the only stat here that is fine imo is the IAS because it alters how the character feels in combat.

Some of the really good items shouldnt be just insane stat sticks but rather give cool and gamechanging proccs and other bonuses. it doesnt need to have a mainstat vit AR at all.

They can also do much more with resistances. I'm on the opinion that certain boss or elite encounters should require some specific resistance gearing. But with AR going to 80! theres no need at all for specific resistances, AR should be at maximum of 15 or something and single resist up to 40 like it is now.

So yea get rid of the stat sticks obsession on every piece of gear, because it does get really boring and dull.
Edited by Esm#2321 on 5/11/2013 2:07 PM PDT
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I really look at itemization helping out the new players and a sub rich player base the most. There might be some additional high end gear that enters the game, but feel we will see much much more middle-low high class gear in the game with itemization.

You have to remember not every not even close to most players in this game can afford high end gear. I mean not everyone can afford 2beez on a single piece.
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You don't even know what the patch will bring and you're already making conclusions,
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