Diablo® III

Suggestions for PVP arena and Wizard class

Hey friends, I`m from European forum and would like to suggest list of changes for PVP arena and Wizard class (weakest in PVP at the moment).

I have compiled experience of several players (some of them are from http://www.d3cl.com/en) - we`ve tried to suggest changes that won`t break PVE balance considerably and won`t require massive work done in terms of programming.
This is an open letter for developers with suggestions (for the next patch I hope) - I`ve decided to create this topic on US forum to deliver my message to the "first hands" (if they do care) :-)

Regarding PVP arena:
1.
When players enter PVP arena, their items should be locked in slots, so they can`t change gear during battle using macros or even manually.

2.
Damage reduction should be one for all classes = 30%. Most (actually almsot all) barbarians use ranged skills in PVP like Rend, Leap or Ancient spear (plus they have Sprint and Ignore pain). Monks have Blinding flash, Sweeping Wind and Dashing Strike (plus they have Serenity). Giving already tough melee classes additional 5% damage reduction you are rising their chances in combat (against ranged and more fragile classes), because they actually DON`T use close combat skills only. One damage reduction for all - this would be fair!

3.
PVP arena could have different terrain types that affect movement speed of players (water, sand) and/or inflict damage (lava, poison pool). This will add tactical aspect for duels

4.
It would be great to have some large open area somewhere on the arena, because ranged classes (DH, Wiz) don`t get big benefit because of many obstacles almost everywhere (island is not enough).

5.
Add "Specter" mode, so several players could watch duel or record video without been smashed by competitors or their pets.

6.
Maybe add Marquise healing potion (or something like that) to heal 20k life at once.

7.
Any kind of team PVP (2 x 2 or 3 x 3) would be great to see in the future. It doesn`t need to be perfect – just simple team mode where two players could fight other 2 players on the same arena as now.
We don`t even ask for ladder or something like that - just "free for all" team fights.

Regarding Wizard class (weakest in PVP and strong in PVE):
1.
Increase Teleport radius up to 50 yards and/or decrease it cooldown a bit.

2.
Galvanizing Ward should restore 1-2% of life per second (it doesn`t scale up at the moment). All classes besides wizards have similar abilities. Common PVE wizard with 30-40k life will have almost the same life regen as now.
The same matter with Vigoron rune of Familiar.

3.
Illusionist passive should also work with DOT damage (somehow). Now you can die (lose 100% of your life) from DOT like Haunt or Rend without this passive triggered.

4.
Remove ability to dodge Calamity rune of Teleport. At the moment it is not possible to dodge Wave of Force, which is the same in nature.

5.
Ancient Guardian rune of Familiar could work every 6 seconds no matter of life level OR every 3 seconds when life is below 50%.

6.
Diamond Skin could have ability to remove DOTs when dispelled/destroyed (if you don`t want to adjust Illusionist passive).

7.
Mirror Skin rune should return all inflicted, not absorbed damage, because 10k is a tiny damage even on inferno (PVE).

8.
Jagged Ice rune of Ice armor should reflect all type of damage, not just melee.

9.
Paralysis passive is just like a bad joke right now - it doesn`t work even in PVE with Living lighting skill. It should be at least 20% chance with 3 sec stun time to be useful anywhere in game.

10.
For Blur passive I would personally prefer 20% of ranged attack decreased, because most of fatal damage in PVP is actually ranged. It sounds logical, because it is harder to hit blurred target from distance than in close combat, no?

11.
Numb rune of Ray of frost could have unavoidable effect - if I take this rune it should slow down even barbarians with sprint (they still be immune to all other speed debuffs from blizzard or ray of frost with all other runes)
Snow Blast rune could work instantly (not after 1.5 seconds), because usually you don`t cast Ray of frost more than 2 seconds in PVP.

12.
I`m not sure if you could adjust Mirror Image copies to behave more naturally (their movement, attacks, etc), because right now medium PVP player could recognize real wizard within couple seconds. I`ve never seen copies using ray of frost. Also Mirror mimics could inflict at least 25% of wiz damage.

13.
Blizzard could benefit (at least some rune) from attack speed like Ray of frost or hydras. Right now three of four PVP wizard spells (Storm Armor, Blizzard, Calamity of Teleport and Ray of frost) ignore attack speed. Don`t you think it is unnatural that fast kite class like Wizard is forced to use heavy, slow 2-hand weapons like Skorn or Doom Hammer?

14.
It is strange that I can`t cast blizzard from behind the wall or obstacle - why it is working like that? In current PVP arena with many obstacles I can`t use this skill effectively.

15. Most important
Every class in PVP besides Wizard have their IMBA skill with huge % damage (and even DOT). So, barbarian or monk or DH or WD could have 150k DPS and still be competitive on arena. No need in high DPS = can gather high EHP, it is simple math. Wizards are forced to gather 250-300k damage to kill serious opponents in duels. So we are fragile (can`t take much EHP), our skills have not OMG % damage like bats or rend (and not connected to attack speed), plus our save abilities have big cool downs - this is why we suck. If we are meant to fight like fast, high damage and fragile class then give us more damage and/or more mobility.

16.
Added: Unstable anomaly could also remove all negative effects after triggering, because right now you can "die twice" from the same DOT.

Blizzard Team, I hope you could take into account at least some suggestions above in your next patches. Right now even uber gear like mine doesn`t allow to fight serious PVP players from other classes.
Please, do something about that, so Wizards don`t suck on arena (and no, I don`t want to roll into another class to feel better - I prefer wizards).

P.S.
BattleNet: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Stalker-2944/hero/7647230
DiabloProgress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/stalker-2944/Stalker/7647230
Edited by Stalker#2944 on 5/26/2013 9:41 AM PDT
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15. Most important
Every class in PVP besides Wizard have their IMBA skill with huge % damage (and even DOT). So, barbarian or monk or DH or WD could have 150k DPS and still be competitive on arena.


That should be the topic start, bold type and caps-locked ))) Totally agree, perhaps not all skills must be used as described, but we need some 500-800%dmg spell, cuz monks have their wawes with over2000% and SSS, barbs=rend, WDs - bats\haunt, DHs - rapid., wizard have some spells that "can" deal dmg, but they are easily avoided, like meteor, witch only fool can be hit with, blizzard, that can be avoided\doesent deal all dmg at once or as DOT. So in PvP wizard rely on simple, not OP at any way spells like ray of frost or storm armor (witch is good against weak opponents in crap gear, but doing nothing ws any good tanked opponent). Wizard vs WD, Wizard vs DH duel is like duel of dog vs lion.

So yes, fellow wizards, let the angry rant start ! XD
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Greetings,
I also have some experience in PvP (patch 1.07 and 1.08 a bit little)
05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
When players enter PVP arena, their items should be locked in slots, so they can`t change gear during battle using macros or even manually.

- absolutely agree

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
Damage reduction should be one for all classes = 30%

Not sure - that is because range classes have some abilities like storm armor (dealing damage even if the opponent can't see you)

Galvanizing Ward should restore 1-2% of life per second (it doesn`t scale up at the moment). All classes besides wizards have similar abilities. Common PVE wizard with 30-40k life will have almost the same life regen as now.
The same matter with Vigoron rune of Familiar.

I think 1% of passive regen and 2% on the Vigoron rune. That's because of balance - if player wants 3% of regeneration - so let him spend 1 slot. But in common idea is good.

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
Illusionist passive should also work with DOT damage (somehow). Now you can die (lose 100% of your life) from DOT like Haunt or Rend without this passive triggered.

I suggest next mechanics: not only 15% by one hit to trigger, but also 15% per 1 sec. to trigger.

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
Ancient Guardian rune of Familiar could work every 6 seconds no matter of life level OR every 3 seconds when life is below 50%.

Not sure - because it's too hard to predict what will happen if do such buff.

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
Mirror Skin rune should return all inflicted, not absorbed damage, because 10k is a tiny damage even on inferno (PVE).

It seems to became more useful in PvE, but, on the other hand, all changes should not affect it. So.. I doubt if they will change that.

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
I`m not sure if you could adjust Mirror Image copies to behave more naturally (their movement, attacks, etc), because right now medium PVP player could recognize real wizard within couple seconds. I`ve never seen copies using ray of frost. Also Mirror mimics could inflict at least 25% of wiz damage.

Agreed only with more unpredictable behaviour to mimics.25% from each copy - it's too unbalanced (imagine, 4 copy + wizard himself, i.e 4*25% + 100% = 200% damage ?)

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
Blizzard could benefit (at least some rune) from attack speed like Ray of frost or hydras. Right now three of four PVP wizard spells (Storm Armor, Blizzard, Calamity of Teleport and Ray of frost) ignore attack speed. Don`t you think it is unnatural that fast kite class like Wizard is forced to use heavy, slow 2-hand weapons like Skorn or Doom Hammer?

Totally agree!! There must be choice, PvP should not be a matter to resolve a question - who is wearing the largest weapon.. There also should be one-handed builds. (imagine how many variants there will be considering large choice of off-hands)

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
It is strange that I can`t cast blizzard from behind the wall or obstacle - why it is working like that? In current PVP arena with many obstacles I can`t use this skill effectively.

That's true - so this little fix should be done.

05/26/2013 12:58 AMPosted by Stalker
15. Most important

Agree with previous poster, that should be a main idea of post. Today wizards are just glass cannons in comparison to other classes in PvP - it they are expecting to deal comparable damage.

P.S.: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Angel-2298/
Edited by Angel#2298 on 5/26/2013 4:39 AM PDT
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Agree with Angel on all counts.
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sup!
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@Stalker,

You are very knowledgeable about wizard PvP and must brawl often. I agree with all of your suggestions to equalize the wizard in PvP. However, the only point you neglected is our burst damage. This is a problem because our main source of damage is from channeling and this leaves us vulnerable to attacks like impale and spirit barrage.

In PvE, I select both a channeling spell and a burst damage spell because all channeling is bad for survival, when you encounter mortar throwing elites it is fatal to sit there and channel. Same in PvP, you will die if you sit there and channel while a DH casts impale or rapid fire. I suggest a buff to meteor, because it is our best burst damage spell. It is resistant to becoming OP since there is a casting delay to warn your opponent to move. When casted, you can move out of the way of an attack in stead of eating hits while channeling. Your opponent will also have to move out of the way of the impact site and stop spamming attacks in 1 spot. Unfortunately, the damage done by one meteor is too low to be worth the AP cost. This is because it does not do as much damage as the high % damage skills of other classes. I suggest raising meteor damage to that of WoL and HoTA.

Further more, I recommend that the blizzard suggestion in 14 to also apply to meteor. When I cast meteor, it gets caught in doorways like a line of sight attack. DHs use this to their advantage because strafe and rapid fire can go around walls. Same with the WDs, corpse spiders can go around walls and spirit barrage can go through them. Because of this, we have to take serious damage before we can even get into range to hit them. Our survival would increase if our force spells, like blizzard and meteor, were not caught in walls when casted.
Edited by Weasel765#1161 on 6/18/2013 1:33 PM PDT
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Agreed with Weasel765, meteor is awesome, but damage should be buffed, also i'd suggest to buff useless rune of Diamond Skin-Enduring Skin, it should works like barbs ignore pain - "Reduce damage taken for XX%" if not for 6 second but atleast 4 or "Absorbing 10853 damage and when effect fades the damage taken will be reduced for xx% for x sec", instead of "Increase the duration of Diamond Skin to 9 seconds".
Edited by Deathaction#2102 on 5/28/2013 11:23 AM PDT
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@Deathaction

+1 on diamond skin.

Notice how the WD's wicker man lasts longer than diamond skin, this is because it is based off of a life percentage instead of a fix value. This allows the amount of absorbed damage to scale with gear. I think diamond skin should also be based off of a player's life percentage, so it can also scale with gear.
Edited by Weasel765#1161 on 6/18/2013 1:37 PM PDT
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I personally think.. the wizard class is somewhat decent.. we do how ever lack some things that all the other class's have.. also i am speaking as long time diablo player in genrel + a ton of pvp knowlegde.. + a million tests to see differences.. I would like to think im one of the better pvp wiz..

1.. our teleport is somewhat BROKEN still,, but (clamity) is somewhat ok .. i mean for the longest time.. a stick on the ground would stop you.. but that wasnt the true fix we needed.. we should be able to spam teleport with no cool down involed.. just like dh can spam stealth.. and barbs can spam sprint.. and monk can spam charge.. cause teleport doesnt always even work.. even now after the fix.. it still dont always work.. and our skill illisuionist.. only procs when we are hit hard.. the problem is.. we are either bled out with out a chance of trigger.. or we are hit so hard we die almost instantly... cause we have no reduction naturally..

2.. the end of the first point brings me to the second point... now in diablo 2 resistance ment alot in pvp... in diablo 3 it means very little it seems.. there is so much damage in genrel that resistence doesnt help as much as it should... now the only reason why i bring this up.. is because i am assumen that this is the ONLY excuse for us not have much damage reduction..Because we can be the highest naturally on resistence... well blizzard i tryed it.. i got myself to like 1300 to all res.. + 20 % reduction from items.. guess what i still get raped by most good wd / dh / monks / barbs.. lol.. i even bassed it off the fact i wasnt needing atack speed for the skills im usen.. this meaning max base damage with max crit and crit damage and intell..

(belive me I did alot of tests.. and spend alot of gold)

so back to damage reduction.. we have nothing that does any real reduction to damage.. blurr is a joke.. no one hits you with a regular melee atack in pvp... that should be 15 % to reduce all damage or something..

3.. As far as damage goes.. I personally dont have many issues.. its all about gear and build... what i would like to see.. is our costs of our good spells to go down.. just because they are ez to dodge.. it would be alot harder to dodge them.. if we could cast more of them.. now i do realize. we have things to do that already.. but the things we have just arnt very good.. the base cost of the spells are just to high.. are our regen to resorce is nothing compared to other class's...

example.. all class's can almost spam there good spells.. or atleast to a point.. with out suffering the loss in damage.. so thats.. wd with bats and huant.. and dh they just hit hard period.. barbs can do like 5 rends or hammers.. before running out of resorce.. and all these class's get there resorce back fast. monks are just like !@#$ing insane ninja.( not sure what somethem do but its nuts).. us wiz.. spam 1 metor or blizzard... with out reduction.. and we then become useless on other spams almost..

those are the serious changes i would like seen done..

so the list of skills would be.. 1.. teleport fixed.. 2.. blurr becomen usefull...3 metor and blizzard to be reduced naturally to like 30 arcane. 4.illusionist to trigger off lower damage for images.

LAST POINT TO ADD..

the only other point i would like to add about pvp is...

WD and DH.. them both being able to attack and not take damage while stealthed.. i dont know if this is a bug or if this how it was intened to work.. but in every other blizzard game ever made EVER.. there has bin no class that can do both attack and not be attack while stealthed.. this is a extremly unfair advantage for these class's.. thats like wizards being able to spam teleport and drop hydras / shoot arcane missles all at the same time..

they should have to choose between attacking or running not getting both.. cause right now none of them run.. they all pop stealth and kill you.. there has bin a couple times.. i never even saw the person that kills me.. i mean for like 20 mins straight didnt see them once.. but i always died to them.. and this is me being a tankie wiz.. or a tankie barb.. when im on the barb i do how ever see them time to time lol.. i assume cause they do run out of resorce's sometimes lol.. he is tankie :)
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05/29/2013 08:23 AMPosted by boogone
WD and DH.. them both being able to attack and not take damage while stealthed


+1
In WoW, a rouge becomes visible once they attack, which makes them think before they attack. In D3, DHs ss and and spam rapid fire while they cannot be hurt. Furthermore, they do not have to aim this channeling spell like we do with RoF adding to the spamming aspect while discouraging strategy. When they are invisible, the only thing you can do is run and come back when it is gone or you will die to rapid fire. When I do this, people get angry at me and say, "All you do is run away!"

There should be penalties to sitting in one place and spamming an attack the whole brawl.
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05/29/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Weasel765
WD and DH.. them both being able to attack and not take damage while stealthed

it would be good if DH and WD can`t attack while invisible
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Poor wizard. The class itself has so much potential, it sucks that this is the state it is in. Unfortunately nothing is going to change so long as blizzard's policy of "no pvp balance" exists. I don't understand why they don't just balance pvp and pve separately (i.e in pve diamond skin remains as is, but while in the scorched chapel it will absorb 50k damage and remove all dots). What makes it so sad also is that because of how good wizard is in pve, they're likely to get nothing but nerfs in the near future. On the other hand, WD is still on the low end of the pve totem pole and will likely receive buffs (travis day has already said that a haunt buff is on the way). They did say they are using brawling to "monitor the state of pvp", so hopefully we can see some actual pvp balance happen when the real arena/objective-based pvp is released.
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06/01/2013 10:47 PMPosted by Kefka
travis day has already said that a haunt buff is on the

LOL, WD will be invincible in PVP then....
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06/02/2013 01:48 AMPosted by Stalker
travis day has already said that a haunt buff is on the

LOL, WD will be invincible in PVP then....


I have to say, it's getting rather embarrassing to play WD in pvp at this point. I've started gearing my DH and am looking in to monk builds. Pre-release I really really wanted to play Wizard in PVP, but that's just a dead end (has there ever been a class in the history of rpg pvp that looks so good on paper but is so terrible in practice?). The thing is, WD vs WD is some of the best pvp I've ever played. It's so nuanced and engaging. It reminds me of early sorc vs sorc dueling in D2. D3 pvp would be absolutely perfect if every class was like that.
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06/02/2013 04:19 AMPosted by Kefka
WD vs WD is some of the best pvp I've ever played.


Yeah, because you do not die in 1 hit like DH vs DH and most of your matches are not drawls like barb vs barb. It just seems like the WD is the only viable class in high level PvP, they can tank up and still do enough damage to beat any other well geared class. This is because their skills do such high percent weapon damage when compared to other classes, so they can devote all their gear slots to ehp. This is also why the wizard is so weak, they do such low percent weapon damage you can not devote all year gear to ehp and still be able to kill someone.
Edited by Weasel765#1161 on 6/18/2013 1:40 PM PDT
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И причем все русские на 2/3 пишут!:)
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06/06/2013 06:06 AMPosted by Ставра
И причем все русские на 2/3 пишут!:)

Какие рюзские? Нэту тут рюзскех ваще нэту братишка
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06/06/2013 06:06 AMPosted by Ставра
И причем все русские на 2/3 пишут!:)


Немає тут ніяких россіян, про що ви взагалі, пане ? XD
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They need to make Storm Armor a DOT. then it will all be fair. and Increase its damage from 130% to 10,000%
Edited by FR0G#1123 on 6/18/2013 1:08 PM PDT
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06/02/2013 04:19 AMPosted by Kefka

LOL, WD will be invincible in PVP then....


I have to say, it's getting rather embarrassing to play WD in pvp at this point. I've started gearing my DH and am looking in to monk builds. Pre-release I really really wanted to play Wizard in PVP, but that's just a dead end (has there ever been a class in the history of rpg pvp that looks so good on paper but is so terrible in practice?). The thing is, WD vs WD is some of the best pvp I've ever played. It's so nuanced and engaging. It reminds me of early sorc vs sorc dueling in D2. D3 pvp would be absolutely perfect if every class was like that.


I could not agree more.....i only look for p80+ wd in pubs to duel, its alot of fun. Plus any other char will just cry after a few deaths(and i dont blame you we are very op) Wotb barbs are fun too, very challenging. I also have been lvling my monk for pvp, but after spending over 100b in gear in the last year....I am not looking forward to regearing a new char
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