Diablo® III

[Guide] Arcane Mines

Maybe I missed it, but what happens > 1.9 APS?

I never use mines, so sorry if this is a really stupid question.
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Maybe I missed it, but what happens > 1.9 APS?

I never use mines, so sorry if this is a really stupid question.


Mines take 2s to detonate and you can only have 6 out at a time. Above 1.904 APS you cast a 7th one before the first one arms, so it starts overwriting the ones already out. In short, you can't spam mines above 1.904 APS without interruption.
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Could one of you swap in Magic Weapon - Electrify and tell me what happens?

AM is the only build I think might benefit from the new Electrify mechanics ( https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770117237?page=11#210 ).

AM can proc the new Electrify, so that's a 50% chance per mine to deal 10% of your buffed mines damage to up to 3 nearby targets.
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Could one of you swap in Magic Weapon - Electrify and tell me what happens?

AM is the only build I think might benefit from the new Electrify mechanics ( https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770117237?page=11#210 ).

AM can proc the new Electrify, so that's a 50% chance per mine to deal 10% of your buffed mines damage to up to 3 nearby targets.


I just tried it and recorded it for playback. I'm pretty sure it's working like you say, but I also think that when the Electrify damage goes out it's getting buffed again by things like Time Warp (basically debuffs that make mobs take more damage). So say I have TW up and deal 1000 damage with a Mine. Then Electrify procs it deal 120 damage instead of 100.

EDIT: Yea, this is exactly what is happening. Tried another recording and playback without TW and without anything else that boosts damage (no Tal's 3p bonus, no TW, no CB, etc) and it's exactly 10% of the Mine damage when Electrify procs. Tal's 3p bonus, TW, CB, etc will then boost the Electrify damage again when it procs. Pretty dang neat.
Edited by Malakai#1265 on 7/20/2013 6:57 AM PDT
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Good catch. So monster debuffs are essentially counted twice and the "Lightning skills deal x% more damage" affix applies. That's even better.

But originally I came here, because I am interested in how it fits into the AM build. Does it make a difference in day to day farming? Enough to make you drop BM?
For all other spells, the new mechanics are a downgrade I guess.
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Malakai and I were just doing a run and I ran a Mines variant with MW:Electrify at only 2.7% LS. The only time I really ran into issues was versus singles with RD. Otherwise I noticed that large packs were getting destroyed. Even regular elites that had no RD. I could take the damage from the other affixes no problem. The one thing I noticed is that AM has a small detonation zone but the MW:E would arc alot further thus increasing kill radius.
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so ive been doing this build for a while and here are some of my feedbacks:

-the blizzard duration helps a lot specially on higher mp's. On elite fights i swap to soj +2sec duration to get 11sec from blizzard. That give me lots of time to channel the dynamo buffed arcane mines whilst maintaining the coldblood effect from blizzard. Also saves you some time recasting blizzard and arcane to fuel more mines.

-the build does not necesarrily need -reduction for arcane torrent and is doable with at least 10 apoc. Since we cast living lightning mainly to fuel dynamo, it also refills our arcane.

-the most important thing to remember here is to when and where to fuel arcane dynamo because there are cases when it's not necessary and are cases when there is. For example if we encounter elite packs which would tend to disrupt our channeling most of the time(like nightmarish, frozen etc.), it would be best to just fuel dynamo on blizzard only instead of trying to refuel dynamo for the mines over and over. There are also cases where trash mobs would die just by dropping blizz and around 1 or 2 mines and they're dead.

-also, one of the reason why i find this build not that popular even with the huge multiplier's and stuff is that the gameplay is a bit tricky - you need a bit of kiting skills to make it work at topmost efficiency (e.g luring, positioning and such). As a long time blizzard user ive been used to kiting so it's never been an issue
Edited by yems#6688 on 8/1/2013 10:05 AM PDT
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I'm interested in trying this build. But before I invest the time experimenting and maybe gearing for it, I was wondering if someone could give me an estimate of the mp level I could do with my current gear if I tried it. It sounds like I'm being lazy but I don't have much time to play today and I was just wondering if it's worth the effort to change all my skills and such.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/mdiaz-1292/hero/12164720

My aps is 2.0... EHP is 296077.

And I'm kinda used to kiting. Was just giving sns a chance because everyone else is doing it. >.<
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I'm interested in trying this build. But before I invest the time experimenting and maybe gearing for it, I was wondering if someone could give me an estimate of the mp level I could do with my current gear if I tried it. It sounds like I'm being lazy but I don't have much time to play today and I was just wondering if it's worth the effort to change all my skills and such.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/mdiaz-1292/hero/12164720

My aps is 2.0... EHP is 296077.

And I'm kinda used to kiting. Was just giving sns a chance because everyone else is doing it. >.<


I honestly don't know what kind of MP you could run. The build is much better off with lower APS, and 2 APS means you can't spam AM without new casts overwriting the mines before they detonate. Also, LS >> LoH for the build, and it requires a lot of EHP to be able to minimize the amount of kiting you do. If you watch my vids I mostly geared to face tank mobs because it's far more efficient than kiting.

IMO it's closer to a SS or disintegrate build than CMWW in terms of gearing.
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-the build does not necesarrily need -reduction for arcane torrent and is doable with at least 10 apoc. Since we cast living lightning mainly to fuel dynamo, it also refills our arcane.


Some testing indicates the build doesn't benefit from -AP cost as much as other AT varients, so it's definitely not mandatory. 10 ApoC should work fine against 3+ mobs but I recommend 20 APoC to be able to sustain against ubers. 10 just doesn't seem to be enough and if you have to stop to cast LL to refresh your AP you are losing a lot of dps.

08/01/2013 10:01 AMPosted by yems
-the blizzard duration helps a lot specially on higher mp's. On elite fights i swap to soj +2sec duration to get 11sec from blizzard. That give me lots of time to channel the dynamo buffed arcane mines whilst maintaining the coldblood effect from blizzard. Also saves you some time recasting blizzard and arcane to fuel more mines.


Blizzard duration isn't bad but you can run the build without it. It's mostly for solo play and the build is far from ideal for solo play. I even took to using DS instead of blizzard not too long ago and switching illusionist to CM and it seems to work just as good, maybe a little better. A scoundrel with a buriza geared and specced to survive goes a long way towards providing the chill effect for CB. For group play, if you don't have a CMWW in group I suppose you can keep it for the extra 20% buff and utility. Otherwise the main use I had for blizzard was to help keep my alive for the 2 seconds it takes to arm my first mine. After that life steal kicks in and I just spam the mines until mobs are dead.

08/01/2013 10:01 AMPosted by yems
-the most important thing to remember here is to when and where to fuel arcane dynamo


I definitely agree with that. For trash, if you're on a high MP with low DPS, like MP10 with only 200k buffed char sheet dps, then powering AD on large groups of mobs is likely a net gain in efficiency. If you're running MP5 where trash dies to 1-2 mines, then it's not really worth it. Against elites I always power AD up to start and then adjust as needed. Sometimes you can kill the elite without having to move, otherwise you can sometimes drop a LL before you have to move and have AD powered again when you stop moving. And other times you can just ignore AD and cast your mines whenever you find openings.

08/01/2013 10:01 AMPosted by yems
-also, one of the reason why i find this build not that popular even with the huge multiplier's and stuff is that the gameplay is a bit tricky - you need a bit of kiting skills to make it work at topmost efficiency (e.g luring, positioning and such). As a long time blizzard user ive been used to kiting so it's never been an issue


I definitely agree with this. Ideally you should try to minimize kiting as much as possible to maximize efficiency. That means high EHP to be able to face tank mobs, preferably with enough mitigation to gain life against RD since you hit so hard and have a high dps multiplier. Against some affixes that's not an option, like frozen or horde+sentry. That's when some versitility of the build comes into play and you can switch to a kite spec without much trouble. It does take some getting used to, and at high MP it's not easy, but if you enjoy that sort of thing then the build is pretty fun.

Overall I still say it's primarily a group build since it works best with a CMWW or cyclone strike monk (I think that's the one that groups up mobs). It can offer some utility but mainly I like it because it offers a very high effective dps multiplier so you can feel like you actually contribute to dps with the build. In that respect I greatly prefer it over alternatives like Archon or meteor for group play. It works alright for solo play but there's probably more efficient ways to play solo, like lower MP Archon, or SS.
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yea, most people consider "kite" as running away - well yeah most of it, we do but, when we kite, we do it or a purpose like what i said, luring the mobs positioning to our advantage. Lets say for example we lay the mines in a certain area, the most common thing we have to do is lure them around there. One good way of doing it is like doing it in a spiral position (if you've seen the milky way you'd get the idea:D) until they get drawn to the mine.

as for the blizzard duration thing - my main concern there is that, it would be such a waste to recast a dynamo fueled blizzard when you're casting a dynamo fueled arcane mine. Bec. i usually fuel both specially on elite fights.

Blizzard

Duration Bonus +5 Second(s)
Cast Duration 11 Seconds
DPS 170698
Total Damage/Cast 1877678
Damage per Tick 49092 - 86383
Per Tick Crit 206185 - 362810
Life Steal/Hit Avg 16148.07
Life/Sec 26665.45
AP/Crit/Sec 0.1 AP/Sec

Arcane Mines

Average Hit 682794
DPS 1127503
Damage Range 196367 - 345533
Critical Hit 824740 - 1451238
Life Steal/Hit Avg 5872.03
Life/Sec 9696.53
AP/Crit/Sec 3.92 AP/Sec

-since on elite fights on mp10, usually lasts longer than 10secs like the yellow packs. It's a bit a waste not to maximize the blizzard's damage. Getting blizzard duration, it's an almost a double blizzard cast. So in that 11 sec duration im doing 1.8mil x 75% from dynamo x 20% from CB,
and i am also channeling a dynamo fueled arcane mine.

-i haven't tried 10apoc on ubers but i think it would do on double targets - i think we can swap stark winter to unrelenting storm or snowbound. My main point here is to keep our dynamo fueled spells up most of the time along with cold blood being active.

-also in a party with archons , it is important to keep coldblood active so i like to keep blizzard in the slot. I don't know if archons would prefer sns party member over this build but i find it good vs. a run and gun situation:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#bleQgS!dWT!cYbaZc

time warp and blizzard would most likely keep the mobs snared
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Incredibly stupid question: is the single-player build still viable if you substitute Time Warp for Blizzard?

Example: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#beQgOS!ZbT!cbaZcc

Slow Time has the following advantages:
  • When used with Evocation, its cooldown is almost low enough to spam it
  • It slows projectiles
  • It snares mobs for 60% movement and 20% attack speed
  • With Time Warp, you deal 20% more damage to enemies within it, which is fairly beastly


That said, the primary disadvantage is that it simply doesn't do damage on its own -- but as Yems demonstrated, 90% of your damage comes from Arcane Mines anyway; and Time Warp would theoretically boost Arcane Mines damage by 20%, thereby coming out with 10% MORE damage by comparison with a Blizzard build.

Is this a good idea, or is it as dumb as I think it is?
Edited by Gaius#1614 on 9/9/2013 10:09 PM PDT
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Incredibly stupid question: is the single-player build still viable if you substitute Time Warp for Blizzard?

Example: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#beQgOS!ZbT!cbaZcc

Slow Time has the following advantages:
  • When used with Evocation, its cooldown is almost low enough to spam it
  • It slows projectiles
  • It snares mobs for 60% movement and 20% attack speed
  • With Time Warp, you deal 20% more damage to enemies within it, which is fairly beastly


That said, the primary disadvantage is that it simply doesn't do damage on its own -- but as Yems demonstrated, 90% of your damage comes from Arcane Mines anyway; and Time Warp would theoretically boost Arcane Mines damage by 20%, thereby coming out with 10% MORE damage by comparison with a Blizzard build.

Is this a good idea, or is it as dumb as I think it is?


The problem is it uses an attack turn, so you have to stop your channeling. If you use Arcane Dynamo to empower your mines, that means you'd have to re-stack the dynamo before resuming.

I've actually taken out blizzard in favor of EB - short fuse for solo play, and I get CB from my scoundrel, if I use it. The purpose of blizzard is to keep you alive during windup, and EB has the same effect, but without using an attack turn so you can spam it with AM.

Also, drop evocation for illusionist if you want to try that. It works on teleport and time warp. I replace it with CM when I use EB.

Also, Time warp is additive with dynamo and MW, so you don't really get 20% extra damage, it's effectively only around 11% increase for you. For group play it might make more sense to use it to give a bit of group utility, but that's up to you.

And finally, which is what I probably should have said at the start, blizzard adds 20% from CB, which is multiplicative, so you likely get more damage out of blizzard, especially if you add a bit of +blizz duration. That's in addition to blizzard giving your life back from LS while you power your mines.

That's a very poorly ordered reply :S
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 9/9/2013 10:33 PM PDT
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09/09/2013 10:29 PMPosted by Loroese
I've actually taken out blizzard in favor of EB - short fuse for solo play, and I get CB from my scoundrel, if I use it.

Hey Loroese, what are your thoughts on using Frozen Storm as a way to apply CB? What's more, I've actually found that FS is a pretty good way to slow down incoming mobs to increase survivability during the initial pre-arm period, plus it gives an extra handful of procs for EB and thus adds to the DPS potential of an AM/EB build very nicely. It also helps me herd some mobs into neat huge clumps to inflict utter ruination upon.

To further pump up the DPS potential, I've been trying to fully leverage the new Electrify mechanics exposed by yourself, apo, Malakai, and perhaps others. Like yourself, I started off using Short Fuse, and have been practicing to the point where I can transition into using Time Bomb instead, the use of which I understand makes Electrify as hot as possible. I can certainly feel it. In a 3+ mob, it's really amazing the damage I can put out with AM+TB+E+FS. It's faster on MP 10 than anything I've done related to Sleet Storm with my gear set, for example.

Here's what I've been working on, and am extremely addicted to playing. Any thoughts and criticism are appreciated:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#keQfSh!dgW!abacaZ

To further increase survivability in any build, my bread and butter is Mirror Image, and it's used to great effect with AM. It's especially great in situations when mobs are already on top of me before I can arm AM, plus it provides defense against things like Frozen/Nightmare/Knockback.

By the way, one thing I'm surprised you don't mention in your guide is the superior survivability of an AM build, that is if we make it past the pre-arm period. I actually find the 2 second AM delay to be a huge advantage, since I can survive any enemy attack(s) for 2 seconds thereafter since the mines are still bringing in HP. Two seconds is an eternity in D3, and I'm not sure it gets any better than that. In many ways I find AM life steal to be more dependable than what a 1H SS build offers me.
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I've never tried FS because I need Prismatic Armor to survive on MP10. With enough EHP I imagine it could work against multiple mobs. I might prefer chilling aura though, since it would work better against fewer mobs due to better AP efficiency. I'm also not really a fan of having to spam spells often, or I'd play SNS, so I don't like adding more spells you have to constantly refresh.

Electrify is the same issue for me. I run BM to make RD mobs easier to deal with. Since I'm doing like 2-3 mil effective dps against elites, if I don't gain life against RD I kill myself very fast. Thus prismatic armor and BM. Otherwise I still would probably prefer short fuse to time bomb, and it works well with electrify since it's just one blast. I really like the instant cast ability of it, which is great against trash mobs, and I'd probably mostly waste time bomb since trash dies VERY fast.
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I see. Maybe it's all the defense I stack on gear, but using Safe Passage in conjunction means I gain life against Reflect packs at just 3% life steal. Plus I use Mirror Image which diverts a ton of the primary damage I'd otherwise take working against Reflect packs. Maybe these sorts of flexibilities are tough to work into your Arcane Dynamo workflow, come to think of it.

I'm going to take a closer look at your videos to gauge the DPS output between our builds. Your AD setups will grossly outperform mine against single targets, of course, but against crowds I think they have to be pretty close. Electrify with AM+TB might even pull me ahead.

09/10/2013 09:16 AMPosted by Loroese
I'm also not really a fan of having to spam spells often, or I'd play SNS, so I don't like adding more spells you have to constantly refresh.

Maybe it's just me, but I would hardly qualify the use of EB at sub 2.x attack speed as "often" or anywhere akin to freeze spamming, nor refreshing an armor spell every few seconds. Spell spamming fuels a broad spectrum of good builds out there, including those that channel and do not play like FN wizards do.

09/10/2013 09:16 AMPosted by Loroese
I really like the instant cast ability of it, which is great against trash mobs, and I'd probably mostly waste time bomb since trash dies VERY fast.

Since AM delay is about the same as TB, this statement is kind of odd unless you're suggesting you kill trash mobs in one Short Fuse blast.

I think Short Fuse is instead better used to bolster spells that have instant effect, like Sleet Storm. This way EB would be much less likely to be wasted.
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You're right about EB and refreshing armor every 3s as not really being spammy, I'll concede that.

As for short fuse, I like it because of the instant effect. The windup is the most scary part for me and casting short fuse instantly fills my hp while waiting for mines to detonate. Further, mobs tend to die pretty fast with the build, so the 2.5s delay on time bomb means the 2nd or 3rd EB cast might not have anything to hit, whereas short fuse will hit because you only cast it when mobs are around. That's what I meant by preferring short fuse for trash mobs. The idea is you can get like 2-3 casts off in a couple seconds, compared to just 1 time bomb, maybe 2.

Also, I do use safe passage, but because of the dynamo I don't want to cast teleport in the middle of a channel. It's a bit more restrictive, but it works, and I get decent enough dps increase from buriza or dynamo. I mainly use safe passage at the start of a fight to help windup survival.

Next week or the week after I might have time to record some vids with EB, but I'm booked all this week. Until then, the vids posted might be a little out dated, but they're still a decent comparison for elites, so that's what I'd recommend comparing to. Though I can probably kill trash faster due to the dynamo. It also gives options of rounding up large groups of mobs to blast to bits. Basically, as long as you'll be channeling for more than a couple seconds, it's better to power the channel with dynamo, even against trash.
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 9/10/2013 10:39 AM PDT
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09/10/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Loroese
The idea is you can get like 2-3 casts off in a couple seconds, compared to just 1 time bomb, maybe 2.

In my experience, just 1-2 supplemental casts of Time Bomb is usually enough to finish off most trash, this because an AM channel is itself so darn powerful already. In fact, so powerful that I feel the advance casts of Short Fuse are what becomes wasted, instead. For those scary first few seconds, though, I definitely agree Short Fuse is a defensively valid solution. I also keep forgetting that you need to wind up LL in your builds. Boy, you sure know how to live on the edge with AM, as if the AM windup itself isn't dangerous enough for you.

I probably sound to most readers like a total noob when I talk about Mirror Image, but I really think the Simulacrum rune can potentially offer you a lot of extra cushion winding up AD, not to mention extra unmolested AD channel time thereafter against the likes of Nightmare/Knockback. When the pre-arm period gets rough for me, MI almost always pulls me through.

09/10/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Loroese
Also, I do use safe passage, but because of the dynamo I don't want to cast teleport in the middle of a channel.

Now I understand your use of Energy Armor and Blood Magic far better. Actually I like to think that AM is as much of an option offense like SS tends to be with a lot of freedom for personal skill preference.

Anyway Loroese, a much belated thanks for sharing your AM builds. I've really come around to them, feel 100% revitalized in playing my wizard, plus feel a lot more powerful and survivable. I pity all the FN wizards who are quitting, really. There's so much more fun out there.

Edit: Just saw your edit amendment. Sounds cool, I'm looking forward to your updated videos. As for a comparison between our builds, I wouldn't write off the power of Electrify working off of AM + Time Bomb so easily, especially in large groups of mobs that you mention are so good for AD. Maybe I can make a video for you, too.
Edited by MILESIAN#1982 on 9/10/2013 12:41 PM PDT
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Maybe I missed it, but what happens > 1.9 APS?

I never use mines, so sorry if this is a really stupid question.


Mines take 2s to detonate and you can only have 6 out at a time. Above 1.904 APS you cast a 7th one before the first one arms, so it starts overwriting the ones already out. In short, you can't spam mines above 1.904 APS without interruption.


hi all,

i have a question regarding the max number of mines. something seems weird here.
you can only have 6 mines out, right. and i guess it takes me less then 2 sec to put them down (2.21 att per sec). since the mines overwrite each other, and assuming i do not run out of AP, i should have 0 dmg output from my mines, if i keep spamming. but that is not happening, on some lower mp i could kill groups only using frost nova and spamming mines.

do you have any ideas what is going on here?

thx
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05/28/2013 02:50 PMPosted by Loroese
Arcane Mines (AM) - This is the staple dps spell in the build. It does 340% damage per mine, but you cast mines at about 1.5x your APS, so it effectively does 510% weapon damage per second when you spam it. It only costs 16 AP per attack turn. It does have a small aoe radius but it can go over walls and around obstacles .


in my experience AM cannot go over walls, e.g. the waller walls. you will create a mine in front of the wall.
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