Diablo® III

[Guide] Arcane Mines

AD + Prismatic might still yield better overall results considering what you can possibly gain in dps by not having to gear for as much mit. Or even the possibility of being able to gear with enough mit while using Prismatic to not need BM anymore for RD and instead go with Force Weapon. I haven't really delved too deeply into that area, though, because I'd need a helm and gloves like what Melkor has for his AM setup to pull it off I think.


At my gear level I have to use prismatic to break even against RD, and BM. Eventually I'd like to switch to Electrify or pinpoint.

I think ultimately GC+PP+electrify would be the ideal situation, but that requires either a lot of mitigation or the acceptance that RD will hurt bad. For AM Electrify should add about 5% dps (not 7.5% like I said previously), on top of your already high multiplier, whereas force weapon only adds 5% to your already large additive buff, so with AD it's only about 2.5% dps gain over BM. I just find it very hard to drop BM because of the huge survivabilty boost it gives.
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 12/5/2013 8:16 PM PST
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You guys might want to give http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#beQgOS!gTV!cbZZca a look.

It's a nice compromise between AD goodness, and kiting/hit and run effectiveness. You initiate the fight by tossing in a few living lightnings for AD stacks, and a bit of life regen via LS/LoH (I can run both, and is what has me sticking with LL) for what you're about to pull next: Wormhole, as you well know, has a delay before the cooldown starts. It also gives you just enough time to get a spell cast off, and teleport out. What you're aiming to do is teleport into the middle of what ever pack of mobs you just pissed off by LLing, cast Time War, and teleport back out in what ever direction you prefer. Hell, you can jump twice and it puts you just outside of frame of the very edge of your Time Warp shell. From here, you launch your Electrified mines, and cackle in delight as a gaping hole magically appears in the pack. For more survivability, you can drop electrify for blood magic, and paralysis for illusionist. Core approach remains the same.
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Interesting variant, but my understanding of paralysis is it barely does anything right now. You can also get a similar effect out of Reversal instead of wormhole, if you want. I'd recommend trying CB with a cold weapon follower if you play solo, or maybe blur if you play multiplayer and no one provides cold damage.

Personally I prefer gearing for face tanking, so I just use teleport to get out of sticky situations and otherwise just spam AM until mobs die. That's why I use BM and prismatic armor.
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Paralysis works best, I've found, in Crypt runs, where you have ungodly large amounts of mobs in a confined area, but you're right in that even in a situation such as that it's not the greatest. As for Reversal, often times you'll find the place you're teleporting from is a far worse position to be in than even an angry pack of mobs, say for example plague, frozen, etc etc. I like having the ability to reposition in any direction I so choose.

As for passive, Blur is what I'm toying with right now. Combining CM/Illusion is actually a very solid choice, as it ensures you have Teleport/Time Warp at your disposal at any given moment in a fight.

I hear you on the Face Tanking, I like doing that as well. How ever, I found my self often times having to kite for my life because of any number of ridiculous affix combos, double elite/champs, or what have you. I like my particular variant because It works VERY well in either roles.
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12/03/2013 03:30 PMPosted by Loroese
I think ultimately GC+PP+electrify would be the ideal situation, but that requires either a lot of mitigation or the acceptance that RD will hurt bad. For AM Electrify should add about 7.5% dps, on top of your already high multiplier, whereas force weapon only adds 5% to your already large additive buff, so with AD it's only about 2.5% dps gain over BM. I just find it very hard to drop BM because of the huge survivabilty boost it gives.


Oh, wow. Didn't realize Electrify was that much for AM. I knew it was a lot with the change, but not that much. Is that factoring in AD, too? Or would that even matter?
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Oh, wow. Didn't realize Electrify was that much for AM. I knew it was a lot with the change, but not that much. Is that factoring in AD, too? Or would that even matter?


Electrify bonus is independent of AD or other buffs, if I'm understanding it correctly. Basically it just deals damage equal to 10% of the original blast. The proc coefficient of AM is 0.5 so you should get about 5% damage increase from it, based on overall dps. I said 7.5% before but I was spacing out and multiplied that by the speed coefficient, so it should be 5%. Basically Electrify should be multiplicative damage increase whereas force weapon would be additive. There's also been talk of it double dipping from buffs, like Time Warp, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case for CB also (i.e., a 100 damage hit would be 120 with CB, electrify would do 12 damage, but that would become 13.2 damage after CB from the electrify).
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 12/5/2013 8:12 PM PST
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12/05/2013 08:12 PMPosted by Loroese
There's also been talk of it double dipping from buffs, like Time Warp, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case for CB also (i.e., a 100 damage hit would be 120 with CB, electrify would do 12 damage, but that would become 13.2 damage after CB from the electrify).


Yea, anything that applies a damage debuff to the mobs that makes them take more damage it double dips. I was the one that noticed it while trying out the new Electrify back when someone first posted about the change. I couldn't figure out why the numbers were wonky at first, so I recorded a lengthy video to see what was causing it. Come to find out it was TW and CB throwing things off. The number then gets modified by 3 piece Tal Rasha set bonus if you have it.
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Loroese, nice to someone else also stacking physical resist ! I think it's great value.
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12/05/2013 09:12 PMPosted by GAK
Loroese, nice to someone else also stacking physical resist ! I think it's great value.

Yeah, love my physical resist. RD is the most deadly affix for me with all my wizard builds, so I gear to gain life against them, which means high mitigation, high LS, and some extra physical resist where I can get it to push me over the edge. If you're lucky, the physical resist costs almost nothing extra too.
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Thought I would give this thread some love since i'm taking Wiz #4 on the para100 trip.

wanted to do something different than most wizzies out there and i remembered playing with this build in the first days of my exploration into the class. had a lot of fun with it.

that said i want to give a shout out to the ppl who contributed to this thread.

thx a bunch and much love.
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12/03/2013 03:30 PMPosted by Loroese
AD + Prismatic might still yield better overall results considering what you can possibly gain in dps by not having to gear for as much mit. Or even the possibility of being able to gear with enough mit while using Prismatic to not need BM anymore for RD and instead go with Force Weapon. I haven't really delved too deeply into that area, though, because I'd need a helm and gloves like what Melkor has for his AM setup to pull it off I think.


At my gear level I have to use prismatic to break even against RD, and BM. Eventually I'd like to switch to Electrify or pinpoint.

I think ultimately GC+PP+electrify would be the ideal situation, but that requires either a lot of mitigation or the acceptance that RD will hurt bad. For AM Electrify should add about 5% dps (not 7.5% like I said previously), on top of your already high multiplier, whereas force weapon only adds 5% to your already large additive buff, so with AD it's only about 2.5% dps gain over BM. I just find it very hard to drop BM because of the huge survivabilty boost it gives.


As far as RD goes, it might be beneficial to stack some LoH on top of your LS from your MH. and use LL to keep your self alive. Would end up working out to tossing some LL's for the APoC, LoH, Arcane Dynamo stacks, toss in enough mines that you can switch back to LL before they explode.
Edited by Atanatar#1983 on 1/13/2014 12:41 AM PST
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what would do more damage to elites, oculus or triuv? im a little confused because triuv has 3x element damages on it
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01/15/2014 02:08 AMPosted by Crystal
what would do more damage to elites, oculus or triuv? im a little confused because triuv has 3x element damages on it


Depends what dps you end up with for each. If the triumvirate is more than 1.x times your dps with oculus, where x = % elite on oculus, then triumvirate is better.

For example, if you have 100k with oculus with 4% elite damage, and 103k with triumvirate, oculus is better. If you had 110k with triumvirate, then it would be better than oculus in terms of damage.

Oculus is pretty nice at lower gear levels though since you can get a decent amount of hp there, plus teleport CD for extra survivability. At higher gear levels you'll likely get more use out of triumvirate though.

01/13/2014 12:39 AMPosted by Atanatar
As far as RD goes, it might be beneficial to stack some LoH on top of your LS from your MH. and use LL to keep your self alive. Would end up working out to tossing some LL's for the APoC, LoH, Arcane Dynamo stacks, toss in enough mines that you can switch back to LL before they explode.


Let me try to throw some math around. 100k char sheet dps with LL = 50k damage per second per mob with LL, approximately. With 90% mit, that's 500 damage you get reflected back to yourself. LoH returns are going to be about 0.75*LoH*APS, so with around 1.8 APS let's call it an even 1.4*LoH. You'd need 350 ish LoH just to break even against RD with LL. To not die against them you'd need to gain life faster than they deal damage to you, which likely requires several thousand LoH. It also doesn't scale well with DPS, so doubling your dps means you have to double the LoH needed.

In other words, LoH is pretty terrible compared to LS for the build (that's true for almost any build except those with heavy WW use). It's much easier to use BM+LS weapon and stack mit to gain life against RD. Then the higher your dps the more survivability you have.
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Just updated the original post with some interesting math regarding break even APS and/or CC for single mobs. At least I think it's interesting.

Math for Break Even against 1 mob:
APS = Base / (16-0.75*APoC*CC)
CC = (16APS-Base) / (0.75*APoC*APS)
from
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11422722856#4
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01/29/2014 02:11 PMPosted by Loroese
Just updated the original post with some interesting math regarding break even APS and/or CC for single mobs. At least I think it's interesting.

Math for Break Even against 1 mob:
APS = Base / (16-0.75*APoC*CC)
CC = (16APS-Base) / (0.75*APoC*APS)
from
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11422722856#4


You should replace APS with 60/ROUNDDOWN(60/1.5/APS), where APS is your actual sheet APS. Round down to 0 decimals (whole integer).

This gives you the actual tick/cast rate for the mines from the breakpoint.

-dolynick

PS. It's good to see you actively posting again Loroese. We've been without a true resident mathematician for a while.
Edited by dolynick#1290 on 1/29/2014 2:35 PM PST
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what paragon points should we use with this?
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