Diablo® III

help me out! sort of newb WD firebat build

alrighty folks. my main char is a monk, he's lvl 92. once he's capped out im moving to my WD.

now my WD is lvl 10, almost end game geared out, dps was 250k last i checked (though at the moment im looking for a new main hand weapon) and ive been researching builds. ive landed on firebats, but when i started experimenting with it i couldnt firebat for more than 4 seconds before i was completely out of mana. and i watch videos where people seem to be able to just continuously keep it up, with their mana pool not even going past the 90% mark. so what the hell?

do i need crazy mana regen on my gear? are there skills/runes i should be using for mana regen? what am i doing wrong?
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Yeah...you're using Pierce the Veil, and you don't have Zuni 4pc. No !@#$ you're running out of mana in 4 seconds. :P

Your build is all kinds of wrong, as well. No Spirit Walk? Zombie Dogs+Sacrifice? Eh?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bcUdfi!cYT!bcZccZ

This is what I use and I never run out of mana.

As for gear, I'd highly recommend a Zuni 4pc. (head+chest+ring+boots) The 20 mana regen is a huge difference. Also, switch the Serpent for a well-rolled Thing of the Deep. The 20 pickup radius is really helpful, and gets you tons of mana back from Grave Injustice.
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you have too much atk spd. to support that I would think you need to drop pierce the veil and zombie handler for blood ritual/spiritual attunement. Also change locust swarm rune to devouring swarm.

drop sacrifice for spirit walk with jaunt rune.
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thanks for the comments guys.

(keep in mind im newbish) but the reason i never wanted spirit walk is the 2 second duration. just seems so short.. but ive never actually tried it out, so yeah... lol.

the zombie dogs and sacrifice was purely for dps. the way my monk works is he has tons of buffs, which when all active gives him something like 100k bonus in dps. i was just trying to recreate that. obviously... it doesnt work the same..

ill experiment more this weekend and welcome more comments, thanks guys!
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Most go with a more conventional Zunimassa build, and for good reason. Get the skull, armor, ring, and boots, and you will be awash in mana. The advice to go with a Thing of The Deep was good. That 20 yd pickup radius is great. Also, I've tried the firebat build, and don't like it. It's just me, but I love the bears. When they hit a monster he flies up in the air, and maybe his head falls off. Very gratifying. Personally, I think running around going whoosh with a green flame thrower is boring.

If you just stick with theGold AH, and don't succumb to Pay2Win, all the Zunimassa gear can be had cheap -- as can everything else in the game. With patience you can pick up decent gear in the AH for anywhere from a few hundred thousand to a few million. Sure it won't have the highest number this combined with the best that, but just go for better than what you have and work your way up. People make mistakes, get fed up when a good item doesn't sell, and dump it cheap. You can get lucky. Also, crafting can produce some really good stuff for not much gold.

Good luck.
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thanks for the comments guys.

(keep in mind im newbish) but the reason i never wanted spirit walk is the 2 second duration. just seems so short.. but ive never actually tried it out, so yeah... lol.

the zombie dogs and sacrifice was purely for dps. the way my monk works is he has tons of buffs, which when all active gives him something like 100k bonus in dps. i was just trying to recreate that. obviously... it doesnt work the same..

ill experiment more this weekend and welcome more comments, thanks guys!


I agree with everything that was stated by the guys.

My rule of thumb is you want to limit IAS on gear to max 2 pieces so 18%. And you should look at a slow weapon too. a 1.2 spear or mace is ideal. if you went with a int LS skorn, you can support more ias on gear. Skorn is very popular among WD's right now. I use one when I run against mp10 ubers. The 5+ LS allows me tank ubers

Mana management is central to a WD's playstyle.

You want to go with 4 piece zuni bonus. Drop that tals chest. You can go with a mempo, but then you'll need to get a string of Skulls mojo to complete the 4 piece zuni.

i don't know of one build that can PtV at high mp. So you have to drop that. You could use Spiders and Vision Quest passive which = +30% mana temporarily to offset the PtV, however, if you have to relaunch bats...the initial 220mana cost will eventually kill your mana.

And one note about sacrifice...most people using a hybrid sacrifice and bats build are using the Pride rune. This is an auto mana fill up. You have too many mana spenders in your build. I like to use 2 main attacks and the rest of my skills are supporting to make killling faster and easier.

oh...and put Spirit walk on your skills list. This is almost required for all WDs. If you don't like 2 seconds, use the jaunt rune. OR use the mana return rune if you are running out too fast. You'll need this against reflect and avenger prefixes. Launch SW and continue to channel against these prefixes
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alrighty. im geared and playin around.

im still getting used to the build, but its pretty good. functional. but ive got some... things..

i was using locust swarm initially, but i wasnt really digging it. costs mana and it doesnt do anything besides get attention. so i went back to my old fav, firebomb. does damage, no cost, and gets attention. but im still open to suggestions.

i get the hype about spirit walk now. im using hex, amazing dps boost. the firebats themselves have terrible radius. i died a couple times right in front of a monster because i wasnt "on" him.

but my biggest problem is ranged monsters. all my dps is based on close proximity.. so whats a guy to do?

im also using zombie bears. im not sure if theyre worth the casting cost. especially when ive got the firebats. theres a little more range, but not enough for what i need. soooo... yeah..
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Definitely get used to spirit walk. It allows you to tank any situation (arcanes, explosion, etc) and to continue channeling. Coupled with grave injustice and spirit vessel it can have a very short cooldown, allowing tanking through pretty much any situation.

Locust swarm is predominantly used for xp or legendary farming, or any area where there are large mobs of whites. The point is to cast it once and then keep running. The spell will spread to monsters off-screen and bring them towards you. Every 15 seconds or so you stop, throw out some bats/bears and watch 100s of monsters run into them. It yields a lot of experience.

Ranged monsters will always be a problem. They are the major weakness of every wd. In general, our best spell to deal with them is spirit barrage (well of souls). Decent damage and can be easily targeted over long distances. If you get high enough dps it's possible to just chase them down with bears/bats. If you are farming elites, try using mass confusion/paranoia on ranged mobs. It seems to drags them closer.

And in terms of fireballs....well, it's really not a good idea. Think of a monk trying for an effective dps build using primaries as damage dealers (not including FoT). It can't be done. Monks get spirit from primaries, which is why they are used. Wds get nothing. Hopefully in an upcoming patch they introduce in-built mana-on-hit for primaries, but until then they are useless.

PS. I see you have dropped a lot of your attack speed. Very good call :)
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Endless Firebats build here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/RHVfan-1399/hero/19063925

Note my 3 pieces of reduced FB and my mana regen is at about 91 I think. The goal for high MPs is being able to survive while maintaining CoB with LifeSteal. Need to gear for both of these.

Use grasp for locating a "post up spot", run into mob, use Soul for damage buff(good w/ life steal too btw), start CoB, drop Hex and repeat.

- Grasp is good for mobile enimies
- I use Ghost Trance Voodoo for group play and it will heal you while using Jaunt for tanking.
- Jaunt is great for avoiding ground attacks and bypassing arcanes
- CoB build really is gear dependent, I keep armor and AR high because it is so stationary. If you can't maintain CoB and stand still then you are not tanky enough.
- Even only 150K dps, I can easily handle mp10 solo or group and crit into the million level quite often.
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My build in my profile uses Spirit Barrage Well of Souls and the passive Rush of Essence to both regen mana and to attack annoying far away enemies.

I can use it with:
Skorn
Spear (1.2 aps)+ Mojo or Shield
Manajuma carving knife (1.4aps) + Mojo or shield

For the 1handed options you'll need to be careful with reflects damage due to needing more mitigation to handle the lower life steal.

Because CoB has such high damage, there are many ways to deal with it, such as RHVfan's build or another one that uses Maximus, or... lots of ways.
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So I noticed a lot of you rock witching hour. Tonight I will get a good one and then switch my shoulders to a +10k life pair I crafted(make up for BT set) and change JungleF to PtV.....wonder if I can still maintain CoB effectively.....be nice to have a viable CoB and have a hard 200k dps :)

Let ya know results
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Ya, PtV passive def consumes too much mana. I could only maintain CoB for a couple seconds but if I had to restart it more than once or twice I was empty. Worked ok on mobs but Elites were to difficult without being able to maintain COB. Maybe if I geared for max mana but I think I am done gearing WD anymore. I did find a good witching hour that I will be keeping equipped. Added like 20k dps without any noticeable survivability issues.

Endgame WD DONE!
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i think ive stumbled upon a winnner!

ive made my main attack locust swarm/devouring swarm. it jumps from mob to mob, leeches mana and gets attention. and even when im done firebatting i usually have mana to spare.

im getting used to spirit walk and soul harvest. and i think id like to keep big bad voodoo, even though i have a tendancy to forget i have it. but, again, open to suggestions for that skill spot.

and honestly the rest... i just have to get used to. none of its second nature yet, so i just got to keep playing.

thanks guys!
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I am a new WD. Why are people recommending lower APS? Is it related to mana consumption?
Edited by AMH#1804 on 6/16/2013 2:32 PM PDT
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i think ive stumbled upon a winnner!

ive made my main attack locust swarm/devouring swarm. it jumps from mob to mob, leeches mana and gets attention. and even when im done firebatting i usually have mana to spare.

im getting used to spirit walk and soul harvest. and i think id like to keep big bad voodoo, even though i have a tendancy to forget i have it. but, again, open to suggestions for that skill spot.

and honestly the rest... i just have to get used to. none of its second nature yet, so i just got to keep playing.

thanks guys!


I haven't had the cash to gear up like these guys but with 240+hours I got the time in. As far as BBV I agree the timer is too long which makes you A. Hesitant to use it wanting to save it for the right moment. B. Forget about it C. Use it all the time and never have it up when you need it.

I highley suggest you use Hex with Jinx rune. Hex goes off all the time and gives 20% dmg boost to hexed monster. Also hex'ed monsters don't cast hit or run. Just shuffle back n forth looking like a chicken or pig. You get about 2 hex's per cast and the 20% dmg bonus plus removing an elite from the fight is priceless. You will not be disapointed just remember click it often.
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06/16/2013 02:18 PMPosted by AMH
I am a new WD. Why are people recommending lower APS? Is it related to mana consumption?


Short answer. Yes.

I personally like 1.6-75 aps personally. Ticks hit faster which means lifesteal happens faster and damage over time goes up. But cost more mana. With 24MS,which I use for paragon, farming. (Lacuni adds IAS) I'm at 1.62 aps. Equiping my RES Vit bracers I am at 1.51APS. I only use them when I'm getting my !@# kicked. Lacuni for Grinding.

P.S. for 1.7+APS viability you are going to need to spend ALOT of money. Ask Lamboi about high APS builds and cost/viability.
Edited by BlackCamel#1397 on 6/16/2013 3:49 PM PDT
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Less than a billion for the build I have in my profile...

Prices skyrocket since 1.0.8... my 120M mojo worth at least 1b now...
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ugh... another snag..

so dps is good... mana is better... but not perfect. but i am very squishy.

ive been regearing a bit to get more HP, and ive still got a couple more slots to fill (mojo&ring). but i learned with my monk a while ago that adding more HP didnt necessarily help, just that i had more health to lose. so even when im done regearing im not sure if my problem will be solved.

i can kill stuff easily in mp10, but i have little survivability so ive been playing mp8. but even in mp8 im dying often enough to be embarrassing...
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06/22/2013 08:42 AMPosted by shajaki
so dps is good... mana is better... but not perfect. but i am very squishy.


Even your monk is squishy, and you think you can pull the same concept off when WD does not have the 30% damage reduction? Not going to happen.

Try the Skorn path with your current gear, it will solve a lot of your problems.

There are 2 simple boss tests in MP10 to check your gear and build balance.
1) Azmodan - tank in the stacks of pools to simulate ground effects of elites
2) Siegebreaker - dealing with reflect damage at high DPS output

Where you succeed or fail, you will know the limitations of your gear and skill build, and what you need to balance them up.

06/16/2013 03:42 PMPosted by BlackCamel
I personally like 1.6-75 aps personally. Ticks hit faster which means lifesteal happens faster and damage over time goes up.


You really don't need that. With bats, you have effective APS >2 using a slow Skorn. Getting faster small chunks of lifesteal won't help in survival - if you die within 1 sec or 1-shot, then that MP level is not suitable for you.

06/16/2013 02:18 PMPosted by AMH
I am a new WD. Why are people recommending lower APS? Is it related to mana consumption?


Test on a single boss or Uber run. The gear-build balance to maintain the channel is the amount of APS that is suitable for you. You can get more IAS, if you manage to maintain your mana.

but my biggest problem is ranged monsters. all my dps is based on close proximity.. so whats a guy to do?im also using zombie bears. im not sure if theyre worth the casting cost. especially when ive got the firebats.


WoS and/or Hex can be a good backup skill against ranged kiting elites. The requirement with gearing for Bears and the non-requirement for gearing for Bats are in conflict. You'll be better off focusing your gear on one path, than trying to mix the 2 staple builds together.
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06/22/2013 11:48 PMPosted by PaulNg
so dps is good... mana is better... but not perfect. but i am very squishy.


Even your monk is squishy, and you think you can pull the same concept off when WD does not have the 30% damage reduction? Not going to happen.

Try the Skorn path with your current gear, it will solve a lot of your problems.

There are 2 simple boss tests in MP10 to check your gear and build balance.
1) Azmodan - tank in the stacks of pools to simulate ground effects of elites
2) Siegebreaker - dealing with reflect damage at high DPS output

Where you succeed or fail, you will know the limitations of your gear and skill build, and what you need to balance them up.


my monk... is not squishy. currently he isnt as resistant as he used to be, since i accidentally sold my near perfect crafted bracers. ive been regearing in hopes to get back to to where he was. but getting those bracers was like striking lightning... something like 800 pairs to get the good ones so i dont even think im going to try and make any more for him. no hes not where he was, or where id like him to be. but hes more than functional, and able to solo mp10, and play in full open games. so dont just look at him and assume hes squishy.
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