Diablo® III

Sentry - Chain of Torment [INFO]

Because unless it's an elite Kiter, I won't even bother :3

Also, I most of the time carry a Stun or Immobilize item. May it be a belt, quiver or gloves. or an Ammy.
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Hey Chrizzle!

CoT is my best skill. I would like to try using it with more CC (Stun, Freeze....) item.

Right now, I got 4,1% to Chill on my Vile Ward. I would like to find an other item with some CC but I don't want to lose too much DPS (or eHP).

What do you suggest?

sorry for my bad english.....

PaT
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7. Although it is independent of your APS, Calamity/Windforce "might" work better on lower end of weapons since it has Min/Max damage(BLACK DAMAGE) wherein the Skill takes it damage from.

However, if a Manitcore is gemmed with Ruby, it will deal higher damage. NEEDS MORE TESTS though.


Hey Chrizzle, I forgot about this thread! >.< again, great thread!

I just wanted to point out that the above highlighted information is incorrect.

When a skill deals "Weapon Damage" it leaves all elements as is on the weapon, so lets say you had a Manticore with 400 black damage and 400 poison damage, for 800 damage total and you had a 6% cold SoJ. You're CoT would deal damage as this:

1 Tick = 400 Black Damage + 400 Poison Damage + (400 Black * 0.06 Cold)
= 400 Black + 400 Poison + 24 Cold
= 824 Weapon Damage

So if CoT's tick rate is independent of ApS, that would mean that Manticore takes advantage of it the most by having the high damage range(especially if you went with two rubies), but its low aps doesn't matter anymore.
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09/30/2013 06:26 AMPosted by PaT
Right now, I got 4,1% to Chill on my Vile Ward. I would like to find an other item with some CC but I don't want to lose too much DPS (or eHP).


The chilling effect is the same effect as a Cold damage. Just use a Cold SoJ and it will always slow, you could use a cold weapon or Tal Rasha's Ammy.

I really like Witching Hours with Freeze on them. You lose a decent chunk of Dext, but the freezing is awesome.
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I'll edit it out ;)

and will test out some time.. I haven't really logged into the game. My stash is really fcked up and am kinda bummed out to fix it up. LOL

The tick rate is indeed independent of ApS, however, it will still manage to change the damage.

I think either Nubtro or zoid that gave the calculation for it.

To give an example.. with 3 APS, the CoT will deal 100k damage while Spitfire or Sentry without rune will deal 33k each tick or something like that :)

PS: Numbers are an example and aren't accurate.

EDIT: Tasty, I said they that take more into the min-max because of the Archery Passive :3 I remember now. Haha.

Reason why WF is best for Sentry is because of the straight up +DMG it gives. While Calamity works with CoT even though it is independent of APS is because of the Min-Max on that part.

AFAIK, Sentry benefits more on APS(regardless of rune), DEX, AVG Damage(WF and Calamity), +% Element, +%Elite/Racial(ex. Demon), +%Damage... (dunno if I forgot anything else)..

It doesn't benefit from ChD and Crit Chance.

We all know that +% Element gives more effect on a weapon with +%Damage and Min-Max.. so Calamity fits also.

Hey Chrizzle!

CoT is my best skill. I would like to try using it with more CC (Stun, Freeze....) item.

Right now, I got 4,1% to Chill on my Vile Ward. I would like to find an other item with some CC but I don't want to lose too much DPS (or eHP).

What do you suggest?

sorry for my bad english.....

PaT


So far.. I was looking for Freeze Inna last time but it was REALLY expensive..

Sadly, if we are to get CC effects on any of our gears, we'd be sacrificing 1 roll that is better used by Damage or eHP roll.. so.. you really can't have both worlds :(

So far.. What I did last time was Freeze on both Belt and Weapon. Stun on both Gloves and Quiver.

You WILL get a decrease in DPS or eHP.. but every time a monster is Stunned or Frozen.. they don't really deal damage :3 That's why I opted to exchange an eHP roll for a Crowd Control roll.

Again though, we have VERY FEW choices.. and that makes itemizing hard.

I remember that time when I was just rocking 15-50k DPS.. I don't die but ANY ENEMY will die a slow and agonizing death.
Edited by Chrizzle#1390 on 9/30/2013 6:47 AM PDT
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IMO, you can replace Shuriken for CoT as CoT will produce more damage when you're fighting elites.

The build has unlimited Disc and Hatred.



I tried COT with both Shuriken and Jagged separately. Both worked nicely. SC was stress free and gave me a tankiness when I am not meleeing, e.g. running past mobs. JS was more frenetic but more damage. With SC, I had excess discipline though. Perhaps I can use Torturous Ground or Bait the Trap and save myself some spamming.

For freeze and other CC, what % would be minimally effective?
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IMO, you can replace Shuriken for CoT as CoT will produce more damage when you're fighting elites.

The build has unlimited Disc and Hatred.



I tried COT with both Shuriken and Jagged separately. Both worked nicely. SC was stress free and gave me a tankiness when I am not meleeing, e.g. running past mobs. JS was more frenetic but more damage. With SC, I had excess discipline though. Perhaps I can use Torturous Ground or Bait the Trap and save myself some spamming.

For freeze and other CC, what % would be minimally effective?


That's why I sometimes swap out SC on my build :)

Also.. there's no such thing as excess disc, there's always ways to spam them out.

As for %CC. 4% is good already. higher the better. More damage sources gives higher chance to proc the crowd controls.
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7. Although it is independent of your APS, Calamity/Windforce "might" work better on lower end of weapons since it has Min/Max damage(BLACK DAMAGE) wherein the Skill takes it damage from.

However, if a Manitcore is gemmed with Ruby, it will deal higher damage. NEEDS MORE TESTS though.

IIRC CoT is NOT independet of attack speed. Instead of getting faster ticks, attack speed will directly enhance your damage. Let's say you have 3100 dex, 2000 DPS from Calamity/Ruby/Jewelry, 100% IAS). CoTs dps will be:
2000 * 32 (Dex) * 2 (IAS) * 1.25 (CoT) = 160k

Theoretically you could get about 2300 combined DPS with a Calamity, 2250 DPS with a crossbow, 2330 DPS with a Manticore (2 rubies) and 2200 DPS with a bow, so you would be looking at about 200-220k max dps per CoT Sentry without any other buffs.
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09/30/2013 06:39 AMPosted by Chrizzle
Reason why WF is best for Sentry is because of the straight up +DMG it gives. While Calamity works with CoT even though it is independent of APS is because of the Min-Max on that part.


The 15% bonus damage from archery could become more potent then a crossbow, but the biggest factor is that CoT is looking at your weapons min and max damage regardless of Aps AND element. Lets take diabloprogress' rated "best Weapons in the world":
http://www.diabloprogress.com/item/37807030 = Manticore: 1370 - 1857
http://www.diabloprogress.com/item/26321320 = Calamity: 741 - 1310
http://www.diabloprogress.com/item/27096017 = Windforce: 785 - 1494
http://www.diabloprogress.com/item/34719959 = Rare Bow(pure black): 776 - 1458

So I'm going to add in the archery bonus(for the bows) and also 6% cold damage from a SoJ for all weapons I just listed:

Manticore:
1370 - 1857 Total Damage
285 - 646 Poion Damage
Min Black Damage = 1370- 285 = 1085
Max Black Damage = 1857 - 646 = 1211
1085-1211 Black Damage
( 1085 * 0.06 ) - ( 1211 * 0.06 ) = 65 - 72 Cold Damage

Manticore Min Damage:
1085 + 285 + 65 = 1435
Manticore Max Damage:
1211 + 646 + 72 = 1929

Min/Max:
1435 - 1929
Avg = 1682

Calamity:
741 - 1310 Black Damage
( 741 * 0.06 ) - ( 1310 * 0.06 ) = 44 - 78 Cold Damage

Calamity Min Damage:
741 + 44 = 785
Calamity Max Damage:
1310 + 78 = 1388

Min/Max:
785 - 1388
Avg = 1086

Windforce:
785 - 1494 Black Damage
( 785 * 0.06 ) - (1494 * 0.06 ) = 47 - 89 Cold Damage

Windforce Min Damage:
785 + 47 = 832 * 1.15 = 956
Windforce Max Damage:
1494 + 89 = 1583 * 1.15 = 1820

Min/Max:
956 - 1820
Avg = 1388

Rare Bow:
776 - 1458 Black Damage
( 776 * 0.06 ) - (1458 * 0.06 ) = 46 - 87 Cold Damage

Rare Bow Min Damage:
776 + 46 * 1.15 = 945
Rare Bow Max Damage:
1458 + 87 * 1.15 = 1776

Min/Max:
945 - 1776
Avg = 1360

Even with the Archery bonus, Manticore/Rare Xbows work better with CoT because it's tick Rate ignores aps and they inherently have higher damage ranges. Weapon Damage skills, such as CoT, Spray of Teeth, Multishot, all of those will apply ALL elements, not just black.
Edited by TastySouP#1157 on 9/30/2013 7:33 AM PDT
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09/30/2013 07:26 AMPosted by Poekel
IIRC CoT is NOT independet of attack speed.


If CoT is not independent of attack speed then the above information I posted is incorrect.

If it is independent and always ticks at the same rate then my information above holds true.

If the weapon damage of CoT scales with ApS, then my information, again is incorrect. To test this someone should grab an iniates hand crossbow and go grab a min damage ring, this will make your weapon do 3-3 Damage, so you will always see the exact same white and yellow numbers every tick. So if ApS does affect the weapon damage the white and yellow numbers should change if increase your aps. ( I'd do this but I'm at work, anyone want try it? :D )
Edited by TastySouP#1157 on 9/30/2013 7:31 AM PDT
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tasty soup help nyan compute his new eDPS :D
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If the weapon damage of CoT scales with ApS, then my information, again is incorrect. To test this someone should grab an iniates hand crossbow and go grab a min damage ring, this will make your weapon do 3-3 Damage, so you will always see the exact same white and yellow numbers every tick. So if ApS does affect the weapon damage the white and yellow numbers should change if increase your aps. ( I'd do this but I'm at work, anyone want try it? :D )

Tested it a few months ago:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9281758733
"Chains do get higher damage from higher attack speed (as they always tick every 0.5 seconds). Sentry test:
3359 Dex
55 damage
1.62 AS
8% elemental damage
Normal shots: 3596
Chains_ 2080
Normal: 55 * 34.59 * 1.08 * 1.75 = 3595.6305 (as observed)
Chains: 55 * 34.59 * 1.08 * 1.25 * 1.62 = 4160.65815 / 2 (ticks every 0.5 seconds) = 2080.329075 (as observerd)"
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The reason why I said it's independent is only on the tick side.

Further posts states that it takes APS into consideration when dealing damage, not on ticks though.
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Interresting.....
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09/30/2013 07:54 AMPosted by PaT
Interresting.....


Yeah.. Though I still miss that time where CoT crits.. you can only have 1 though.. so.. what we have now is somewhat better because we can have max of 3 ;)
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The reason why I said it's independent is only on the tick side.

Further posts states that it takes APS into consideration when dealing damage, not on ticks though.


Okay cool! Since the damage is variable with attack speed, it'll definitely vary from weapon to weapon, but I think that Bows might come out on top in the end. I want to do more tests tonight to see the damage increases for myself.

Thanks for the info guys ^.^

BtW, the LoH proc rate on CoT is absurd. It's 2.25 and that is so high i think its worth mentioning :)
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As for %CC. 4% is good already. higher the better. More damage sources gives higher chance to proc the crowd controls.


Misled by you I tried out an all melee build with SC, JS, ST and COT. Works great so far and I will just ignore the kiters!

Also got a 4.6% freeze Innas belt for a nice price - the freeze WHs were way overpriced. I lost some life but got my dex bonus and DPS rose somewhat including the Holy damage. I dismissed my scoundrel and went to FOM. With the 4 melee skills, the freeze was very nice. ;)
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Tested it a few months ago:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9281758733
"Chains do get higher damage from higher attack speed (as they always tick every 0.5 seconds). Sentry test:
3359 Dex
55 damage
1.62 AS
8% elemental damage
Normal shots: 3596
Chains_ 2080
Normal: 55 * 34.59 * 1.08 * 1.75 = 3595.6305 (as observed)
Chains: 55 * 34.59 * 1.08 * 1.25 * 1.62 = 4160.65815 / 2 (ticks every 0.5 seconds) = 2080.329075 (as observerd)"


Are you sure that the attack speed gets added as multiplicative damage modifier? Multiplying the damage value by the ApS is the same as having a passive that gives 62% more damage, and that is insanely high.

Another example of a skill that scales damage % with attack speed is Mantra of Evasion - Backlash. Every 0.01 ApS increase = 2% more damage for Backlash, are you sure that Sentry doesn't work in a similar manor, additive percent increases based upon ApS values?
Edited by TastySouP#1157 on 9/30/2013 9:43 AM PDT
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The reason why I said it's independent is only on the tick side.

Further posts states that it takes APS into consideration when dealing damage, not on ticks though.


Okay cool! Since the damage is variable with attack speed, it'll definitely vary from weapon to weapon, but I think that Bows might come out on top in the end. I want to do more tests tonight to see the damage increases for myself.

Thanks for the info guys ^.^

BtW, the LoH proc rate on CoT is absurd. It's 2.25 and that is so high i think its worth mentioning :)


Proc coef of CoT is 0.75.....(/tick/target) Really good for LoH. I play without SP or SS on MP10 because my CoT keep me alive (...and 3% LS on bow help too...) and give me a lot of Hatred with M4D/Mortal ennemy.

CoT + Shuriken + HA/Cinder Arrow + (Trail of Cinder) = lots of LoH.
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09/30/2013 09:52 AMPosted by PaT
CoT + Shuriken + HA/Cinder Arrow + (Trail of Cinder) = lots of LoH.


lol who needs life steal when you proc like a beast haha

09/30/2013 09:52 AMPosted by PaT
Proc coef of CoT is 0.75.....(/tick/target) Really good for LoH


You're right, I meant 2.25 per second, 3 ticks/sec * 0.75 = 2.25 ^.^ good point though
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