Diablo® III

Legal Perspective: Witnessed a Scammer Get Banned

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Twist: OP is obviously the scammer that got banned.
The greater ethical violation was by Blizzard than by the scammer. We are increasingly living in a world where it's acceptable to force buyers into no-fault contracts or put them in situations where they don't actually own the things they buy.

Whether you condone the behavior of the individual or not (and only a sociopath would), condoning the similarly negative reaction of Blizzard perpetuates a policy of stealing a product from a legitimate buyer because you didn't like the way in which he used it. Make no mistake: selling a product with caveats attached to it is in bad faith, and taking away that product for reasons other than is supported by law is theft by any ethical standard.

Please keep in mind that I don't condone the actions of the scammer. Scamming in a game with real money attached to its economy is theft. But enforcing rules about theft is far outside of the jurisdiction of an independent corporation.


^ this is exactly my point and I am very encouraged by the solid reasoning. I am not condoning scamming. It's not even about the guy's conduct. It's about the mishandling of policies and mismanagement of Blizzard employees. At minimum, the banned guy should have had the chance to reply to the accusations before being denied paid privileges.


Just because they write that into the policy doesn't mean it has any real legal effect. Blizzard's policy is not some holy bible. You are entitled to the service you paid for.

Imagine this scenario,

"Hi welcome to Blizzard Cable Services. Please pay subscription fees in advance, and by the way, we can take your money and discontinue service at any time whenever we want. So give us your money at your own risk."


I dunno. I bet Blizz has some pretty savvy lawyers who are well-versed in contract law in general, and online gaming in particular. And I'm pretty sure those savvy lawyers have thoroughly vetted Blizz's policies, including its EULA and ToU. So to say that the policy in question would not stand up in court is probably wrong.


plus its a pretty standard EULA they prob tweaked it here and their but the major part we are focusing on in this tread is standard.
It's a sad world we live in where doing the right thing becomes subject to "well, legally, they don't have a policy for this so they shouldn't have done it". It's a joke!

In real life, if I scammed someone, i would be responsible for my actions. In a game where real money is used to buy items, why shouldn't the same restrictions be in place? Chat logs can prove the scammers intent.

if you scam, you should be banned. fine by me. Wish it would happen more.


Sigh... why do you gloss over the fact that there is no such thing as scamming? Can people be banned? Absolutely if they violated a policy that merits the ban.

There is no policy on scamming. There is no such thing as scamming.

Unless the banned guy was using 3rd party programs or altered the design of the trade window (hacking) in taking items away, he used legitimate means to get his items. While he may have used unethical means by taking advantage of careless people, this is a far cry from violating any policy.
I call COMPLETE BULLCRAP!

"*Acquiring items or any other 'possessions' from another player through misinformation, confusion, or fraud (Scamming)"
(Caveat: Blizzard apparently did a "thorough investigation" but due to privacy concerns they cannot talk about the process.


Blizzard never sent this message. No one has ever been banned for "trade window scamming" but for some reason this ONE dude was... yeah... OP you made all of this up.


This is 100% legit email. No trolling or altering even a word.
06/09/2013 02:53 AMPosted by Nishi
They do not keep those kinds of logs. They probably do after a flagging of some sort though. So for a scammer my guess is he has to reported at least once, maybe a couple times, then they start a log.
How do you know that they don't have those kind of logs?


im sure they do. once a person becomes reported x amount of time the player is most likely flagged and watched. to record a chat log takes KB of space. not to mention that every developer and employee at blizz plays this game too and we may be in a game right now with jay wilson and not even know it. this has been stated by multiple developers that they are in public games all the time. the scammer could have tried to scam a developer at 1 point.
So does anyone actually know if Blizzard has a policy on scam?

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-exploitation-policy
^ this link is about bug exploitation and third party softwares.
No they do not specifically have any policy on scam. But there are other wordings that indicate scam could be punishable.

"Disrupt/Interfere with other players game play"
"Accounts found to be participating in dishonest behavior are promptly suspended or closed"

They leave it very open ended so it's up to the sole discretion of Blizzard.

In fact there are already other players that were already banned due to HC Town PKing and Scamming. My advise is when dealing with outside trades, always fraps it so Blizz knows what they're dealing with.
Edited by Kilragh#1482 on 6/9/2013 2:14 PM PDT

You really shouldn't lump scammers into the same group as hackers. It really is totally different.


The intent isn't. And if you seriously believe that someone who doesn't care, or know (particularly when values are almost wholly arbitrary) that they're short-selling themselves are anywhere remotely near the equal of someone intentionally ripping people off - or lying to them about what they're actually going to trade - you need some remedial courses in logic 101, and perhaps english as well.


Not sure how you can vomit up that blob and add something about remedial english at the end.

But if all we're going off of is intent, which is what you seem to want to do, then the guy who gets scammed is just as guilty as the scammer.
Posts: 2,625

Not sure how you can vomit up that blob and add something about remedial english at the end.

But if all we're going off of is intent, which is what you seem to want to do, then the guy who gets scammed is just as guilty as the scammer.


How is a victim guilty of a crime? I got stabbed, so I'm guilty of attempted murder?

How the hell do you idiots survive into adulthood?
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Blizzard acted entirely correctly. And there's certainly nothing illegal about what Blizzard did.

It's the same as any real world establishment. If you go into an amusement park ($60 admission!) and spit in the faces of every kid you see, you will promptly be kicked out without a refund even if they don't have a rule about spitting in kids' faces though do have a rule saying that if a kid gets spit on, he won't be reimbursed.

Not sure how you can vomit up that blob and add something about remedial english at the end.

But if all we're going off of is intent, which is what you seem to want to do, then the guy who gets scammed is just as guilty as the scammer.


How is a victim guilty of a crime? I got stabbed, so I'm guilty of attempted murder?

How the hell do you idiots survive into adulthood?


Seriously!? You need to get a course on reading comprehension.

/epic facepalm.

Blizzard acted entirely correctly. And there's certainly nothing illegal about what Blizzard did.

It's the same as any real world establishment. If you go into an amusement park ($60 admission!) and spit in the faces of every kid you see, you will promptly be kicked out without a refund even if they don't have a rule about spitting in kids' faces though do have a rule saying that if a kid gets spit on, he won't be reimbursed.


With the only difference that the people can actually fight back. Rather than these scumbags hiding behind a virtual toon and the safety net of Blizzard not doing as much as they should.
Edited by Kilragh#1482 on 6/9/2013 2:20 PM PDT
Posts: 2,625

Seriously!? You need to get a course on reading comprehension.

/epic facepalm.


Being stupid, or not caring, isn't against the rules.

Being a scammer is. Therefore, you can be guilty of malicious behavior.

I'm not quite sure where exactly you're missing the disconnect that ends any similarities between the two. So perhaps, it is you who requires some reading comprehension.

Seriously!? You need to get a course on reading comprehension.

/epic facepalm.


Being stupid, or not caring, isn't against the rules.

Being a scammer is. Therefore, you can be guilty of malicious behavior.

I'm not quite sure where exactly you're missing the disconnect that ends any similarities between the two. So perhaps, it is you who requires some reading comprehension.


OMG you can't seriously be that stupid can you? Nevermind...rhetorical.

*hint* that guy was being sarcastic you moron.

Not sure how you can vomit up that blob and add something about remedial english at the end.

But if all we're going off of is intent, which is what you seem to want to do, then the guy who gets scammed is just as guilty as the scammer.


How is a victim guilty of a crime? I got stabbed, so I'm guilty of attempted murder?

How the hell do you idiots survive into adulthood?


The only reason that the victim falls for this is that he thinks he's getting a good deal from the scammer, he thinks he's ripping the scammer off. He thinks that the scammer doesn't know how much his item is worth, and that's why he's so eager to trade right away without checking the items first.
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No they do not specifically have any policy on scam. But there are other wordings that indicate scam could be punishable.

"Disrupt/Interfere with other players game play"
"Accounts found to be participating in dishonest behavior are promptly suspended or closed"

They leave it very open ended so it's up to the sole discretion of Blizzard.


So then scamming is not dishonest behavior, huh. If I was advertising that I had a 6% crit Mempo, but when we trade I give you a almost perfect Andariel's Visage for about 2 billion gold. Now after I got that 2 billion for a helm that is about 10 million gold. I can be certain you game play would be negatively impacted. More so if you spent real money buying the gold you used to give to me.

Now try and show me where that would not be obvious fraud, scamming, being a con man, etc.. Mr. Armchair lawyer. I think if your professors seen what you posted they might want to laugh you right out of law school.

This is what your OP and this thread has given me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NC257vZ4YiM

See what Godzilla is doing in the above link.

Any judge in the world would no doubt say that since the one that was perma banned. Since you voluntarily joined the community and was given the privilege to play the game as long as you followed the rules. I cannot do anything for you, those rules are want you agree to abiding by when you log on to play. It is like I said earlier, it is similar to joining a club. If you pay X amount of dollars to join a club. If you do not abide by the rules, and it says you must be expelled from the club. Then that is what will happen.

No judge in the world would be able to help you get back into that club. All he would say is the next club you join, please be sure the abide by the rules.
No they do not specifically have any policy on scam. But there are other wordings that indicate scam could be punishable.

"Disrupt/Interfere with other players game play"
"Accounts found to be participating in dishonest behavior are promptly suspended or closed"

They leave it very open ended so it's up to the sole discretion of Blizzard.


So then scamming is not dishonest behavior, huh. If I was advertising that I had a 6% crit Mempo, but when we trade I give you a almost perfect Andariel's Visage for about 2 billion gold. Now after I got that 2 billion for a helm that is about 10 million gold. I can be certain you game play would be negatively impacted. More so if you spent real money buying the gold you used to give to me.

Now try and show me where that would not be obvious fraud, scamming, being a con man, etc.. Mr. Armchair lawyer. I think if your professors seen what you posted they might want to laugh you right out of law school.

This is what your OP and this thread has given me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NC257vZ4YiM

See what Godzilla is doing in the above link.

Any judge in the world would no doubt say that since the one that was perma banned. Since you voluntarily joined the community and was given the privilege to play the game as long as you followed the rules. I cannot do anything for you, those rules are want you agree to abiding by when you log on to play. It is like I said earlier, it is similar to joining a club. If you pay X amount of dollars to join a club. If you do not abide by the rules, and it says you must be expelled from the club. Then that is what will happen.

No judge in the world would be able to help you get back into that club. All he would say is the next club you join, please be sure the abide by the rules.


Damn, if we're really saying that dishonest behavior is enough to get an account closed, then pretty much everyone should get their accounts closed.

What does "negatively affects another hero of their gameplay" even mean? What would be an example of this? It's so broad and ambiguous that it's meaningless. It basically just say "don't be bad mmk?" There's no such thing.

...

I am not saying item swapping is ethical or even that the guy should not be banned. What I am saying is Blizzard can't just step in as a moral police and ban people for something that isn't even against the rules.


You want an example? How about the one you originally gave? lol...

*facepalm*
Posts: 2,625

Damn, if we're really saying that dishonest behavior is enough to get an account closed, then pretty much everyone should get their accounts closed.


No wonder you and your friend are idiots, you think everybody cheats.
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