Diablo® III

Skorn or 1 hander and uhkapian serpent?

06/10/2013 11:20 AMPosted by Aimless
Skorn is better in every way. 1hder is for preeners.


Pshhhhhhhh I like my 1h/mojo setup but it's in no way budget.....apples and oranges.
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@aimless

That is false and biased.

I run 1h and mojo and I bet I can out tank half the skorn users. I'm not saying skorn is wrong or bad , or that I'm godly.I'm just saying its a differ setup and niether one is better than the other. Comes to ur budget and play style. I personally dont care for 2h weapons and the scorn looks rediculous on the wd just out of place. But for the sake of my argument I did try a skorn it was 1361 dps with 5ls and 165 crit damage. It dropped my dps by 60k and I died to the frist pack I came to twice. I barley ever die with my 1h and mojo. I could tell the slower ais coupled with my lack of ais gear seemed to keep me from staying alive even with the 5ls. I crit more and gain more life back with my 2.8 ls mck then I did with the 5ls skorn. I imagine its a combo of the skorn not being ballin.(1400+dps 6ls), losing the 9cc from my serpent. And overall really slow ais with the skorn. Buy idk that's just my opinion.
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I too couldn't decide, so I bought them all. This way...I have the best of both worlds.
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A skorn is better in every way....
can a skorn give you +damage
against elites...... can a skorn give
you +mana regen..... can a skorn
give you +mana...... can a skorn
give you crit chance...... can a skorn
give you pur..... No the only thing it
can give you is extra ls I went through
the same crap about skorn vs 1h with
my monk months ago all it is is an easy
way to survive high mp levels because
of the high ls.
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Dear op,

Check out my WD. I use an ax+froggy. I can solo or group mp10 fairly well. I die here and ther but only from reflect or knockback elites. So u can defintly get er done without a skorn. I found that tons of vitis key to survival. Also the mass confusion helps me out a lot. Another useful defensive skill is horrify+frightening aspect. Its the "oh crap" skill. Happy huntig and good luck.

Shoot for a min of 70k life. Everyone uses the carving knife set but a black dmg rare stacks dps better with the poisin/Holy dmg of zuni boots n tals ammy.
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1h + Mojo gives more sheet dps.

Skorn gives more survivability. The slow attack speed plays very nicely with the witch doctor resource. And the higher damage range plays very nicely with all the damage multipliers witch dr's have.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8891939979

This guide pretty much sums it up.

Look for the 2her vs 1h + mojo section. The video of the 300k dps guy with a 1h + mojo getting beat by the guy with 200k dps using a skorn doing vota runs is eye opening.
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I didn't go skorn bc I am tired of seeing them in every hero that's not a dh.
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I like Skorn because it allows you to drop all your crutches like blood ritual, vision quest, primary spells, mana runes (with the exception of honored guest it's too good not to use) etc. and run a pure heavy hitter build. This increases your actual damage output far beyond a much higher paper dps WD who uses those crutches. In my case it also increases my survivability a ton because I run SV instead of BR and still have the insane GI/GF combo.

DoT spells will also be way more effective using a Skorn, since attack speed doesn't have any effect on DoT. Pestilence owns with a Skorn.

Edit: Damn I'm about to hit 70k elite kills on my doc.
Edited by MikeHoncho#1169 on 6/10/2013 3:21 PM PDT
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The one thing I'm noticing on this post almost everyone
that is pro skorn has under 900ar and 4000armor and as
far as 2h killing faster with less damage I haven't found that
to be true in my testing my 1h kills quit a bit faster than my
2h set up and it should it has 12k more damage and also +5%
against elites I never go by what anyone else says you get to
many mixed opinions do your own testing and get your own
results.
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i dont mean this to be rude or anything. but it seems that from what i noticed is the same as u dirk. skorn users slack some on the mitigation and rely more on ais and the 6 ls for thier surviavl. not saying that is wrong. but it is wrong to tell people that skorn is the only viable mp10 option when its not. and i can run with whoever wants me to prove that.
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More EHP and less LS, or more LS and less EHP? That is the question. Which one is better? Who knows? What I do know is what a 2 hander does for your build. It opens up more build options because you don't need nearly as much mana. To each his own. Dirk you run SA and BR. Do you know how much more powerful you would be if you ran GF/GI instead? A ton, but apparently you can't handle the mana drain.

Also, just to put this out there, my 1 hand/mojo setup (which I still have) puts me at 231k dps with my SoJ, 62k hp, 4k armor and 750AR with 2.9% ls. Close to 100k more ehp yet I feel so much squishier than when I use my Skorn. Melee attacks are the same but ground hazards like plagued and desecrator and reflect damage are just so much easier to tank with my Skorn.

06/10/2013 03:49 PMPosted by EvoIution
it is wrong to tell people that skorn is the only viable mp10 option when its not.

Who said that? People are giving their opinions which is the whole reason for the thread.
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@Evolution I agree with you 100% and that's what I've
been trying to say do your own testing do what's right
for you I'm just telling you guy's what I've found in my
testing.
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The one thing I'm noticing on this post almost everyone
that is pro skorn has under 900ar and 4000armor and as
far as 2h killing faster with less damage I haven't found that
to be true in my testing my 1h kills quit a bit faster than my
2h set up and it should it has 12k more damage and also +5%
against elites I never go by what anyone else says you get to
many mixed opinions do your own testing and get your own
results.


I love these discussions.

I use bears still and PB and my skorn (2h) setup kills slower then my 1h setup with both bears and PB PERIOD. I, however, do not need the higher defense that those that use COB need since I position and kill more from a distance and have enough HP to mainly wait out the few seconds of the initial reflect as I position then with all my buffs I can kill the elite packs usually before they cast reflect a second time and if that happens I just SW and in general finish them off. Extra health and shielding take a little more caution yet in no way does a skorn kill faster or hit harder with my skill set and I have tested over and over and over in all areas and all acts.

Its just preference. What skorn does allow is a play style that is more forgiving in general and lets you just play with more a brain cramp if needed.

Its just like the defense debate. Bear users that are good at positioning do not need the defense numbers in gear that COB users do since bears can be spammed at a range that keeps you out of the close proximity that COB users need, etc.

To each his/her own. I have both setups yet using a skorn = slow and slower kills for my skill setup and play style thats all yet I still play with a skorn periodically and even with my bear setup it has its uses and the added LS is always a + in vs reflect packs, etc. Both 1h and 2h work well its just what play style you like and what gear setup you have to work with for each setup.
Edited by Gotcha#1167 on 6/10/2013 5:13 PM PDT
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I also find using my skorn kills slower than my 1h+mojo. the other thing I noticed being thrown arround a lot is that skorns are better at mana management than 1h+mojo. it may be true in some cases but people with mana regen, max mana, on mojos even it out a fair bit, great affixes for our class. also I have a 1.39 total attack speed along with the extra mana regen from mojo, a lot of people using the skorn has better mana management argument have 1.3+ attack speed without the added mana regen. some even have more than I do. i'm confused as to how that is better mana management.

the life steal argument imo is the only valid argument for skorn vs 1h+mojo. some may disagree and that's their right. try both and make up your own opinion on what suits you best. a lot of people will try to convince you in both directions as if there is only one right way. make your own path and enjoy it
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Ok, heres the scoop. Jumbassas post is extremely biased toward skorn usage so everything he writes is biased towards 2h usage. Not to say that everything he says is false.

This is the truth. Im saying this in regard to a COB build btw,

2h
pros
-most cost efficient,
-facetank anything in game
-3% more LS for tankability, allows for gearing of less mit/ehp (cheaper)
-most likely better EMP. note that spear/mace with mana reg mojo= better EMP.
-allows for more build diversity due to 6% LS. no mana reg passives/no use of horrify.

cons
-slower gameplay, less mobility.
-less dps/ehp/max mana/pur/elite dmg potential

1h+mojo
pros
-more mana regen/potentially higher mana regen, better for kiting and elites that take longer to fight.
-higher dps(up to 30% more depending on budget)
-higher ehp(up to 300vit/12%life aka potential 25-30% ehp increase for most WDs)

cons
-3% less potential LS, less tankier feel
-problems vs reflect
-potential EMP problems with too much AS.

I wish it were just the same as with monks, where skorns give 3% more ls. Its alittle more complicated than that since WDs have to worry about effective mana and have 30% less mit (3% ls isnt enough to break even with reflect whereas monks/barbs can due to this 30% reduction). so the 3% ls+ less attk speed make the skorn a much more attractive option. If someday blizzard wakes up and gives everyone 30% more mit, skorns would just literally die off the face of the earth.

Due note that if you have enough budget, you can enjoy the extra dps/mana reg/ehp that 1h offers if you play smart, wait for reflect to run a few secs before engage, learn to use horrify in reflect/hard pack situations.

I personally beleive in having as much offensive power while having enough defense. That means I want to use 1h+OH, aka im a epeener. Skorn is great for playability. But you will eventually reach a dps/ehp wall where the only way to upgrade those is to go a 1h+mojo route. If you gear correctly with enough budget, you can outgear any of the deficiencies the 1h+mojo comes with except vs reflect when reflect is on... which is only what 25% of the fight time?

as others have stated if you wanted to play the game with ease/ go zombie mode,
go with skorn.

if you want to kill stuff faster and like alittle challenge and thinking in some situations
go 1h+mojo.

I personally suggest all wd's to use a skorn unless they have a 5bil budget. Elsewise they wont be able to enjoy the positives of the 1her without the deficiencies eating them alive in the harder parts of the game. Jumbassa says that he got a 400m spear and 1.7b zuni mojo and a mempo and still prefers skorn. I say that he didnt have a good enough spear and didnt play 1h correctly. At the very end gearing levels of the game, a 1h+mojo will be able to kill elites at 1.5x faster while being able to survive just as well. I think this will be 2x as fast as skorn once i63 butchers sickles are released. 1250dps/150int/150vit/100 crit/3ls/socket 1her making anyone water in the mouth?
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06/10/2013 07:54 PMPosted by Eugenius
I personally suggest all wd's to use a skorn unless they have a 5bil budget. Elsewise they wont be able to enjoy the positives of the 1her without the deficiencies eating them alive in the harder parts of the game. Jumbassa says that he got a 400m spear and 1.7b zuni mojo and a mempo and still prefers skorn. I say that he didnt have a good enough spear and didnt play 1h correctly. At the very end gearing levels of the game, a 1h+mojo will be able to kill elites at 1.5x faster while being able to survive just as well. I think this will be 2x as fast as skorn once i63 butchers sickles are released. 1250dps/150int/150vit/100 crit/3ls/socket 1her making anyone water in the mouth?


The whole post was brilliant. This last part summed it up perfectly.

If they ever release that butchers sickle they better introduce higher mp levels as well...
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@aimless

That is false and biased.

I run 1h and mojo and I bet I can out tank half the skorn users. I'm not saying skorn is wrong or bad , or that I'm godly.I'm just saying its a differ setup and niether one is better than the other. Comes to ur budget and play style. I personally dont care for 2h weapons and the scorn looks rediculous on the wd just out of place. But for the sake of my argument I did try a skorn it was 1361 dps with 5ls and 165 crit damage. It dropped my dps by 60k and I died to the frist pack I came to twice. I barley ever die with my 1h and mojo. I could tell the slower ais coupled with my lack of ais gear seemed to keep me from staying alive even with the 5ls. I crit more and gain more life back with my 2.8 ls mck then I did with the 5ls skorn. I imagine its a combo of the skorn not being ballin.(1400+dps 6ls), losing the 9cc from my serpent. And overall really slow ais with the skorn. Buy idk that's just my opinion.


u cant out tank me. I dont die cos dead = zero dps. besides fastest vota runs I ever seen was by jumbasa using skorn not epreeners with 300K and 1hders (avg 13.77 sec a pack). Why cos they have to kite skorn users dont. OOM skorn users never are. I try 1dhr I have a top sword my archon uses and bought top mojo was terrible. LS was terrible. Mana was terrible. and in end dps was terrible.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 6/10/2013 8:42 PM PDT
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06/10/2013 07:54 PMPosted by Eugenius
Jumbassa says that he got a 400m spear and 1.7b zuni mojo and a mempo and still prefers skorn.


thats cos he's smart I'm still waiting for any 1hdr to beat him with his low dps I watch the videos of these high dps WD and none come close - if they do i'll change my mind. And dont die ofc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtlHymYsjlA&feature=youtu.be
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/jumbasa-2925/Yojimbo/15726227

5:07 - 5:20 =13 SEC
5:30 - 5:42 = 12 SEC
6:02 - 6:20 = 18SEC
6:55 - 7:12 = 17 SEC
7:59 - 8:11 = 12 SEC
8:44 - 8:55 = 11 SEC (PACK 1)
8:44 - 9:01 = 16 SEC (PACK 2)
9:35 - 9:45 = 10 SEC
10:07 - 10:22 = 15 SEC

13.77 sec to kill pack
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 6/10/2013 8:52 PM PDT
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@Eugenius
cons
-slower gameplay, less mobility.
-less dps/ehp/max mana/pur/elite dmg potential


Can you explain more about "less mobility" for skorn?

I actually found it the other way round....
When I use skorn, I can add more ias gear and still no mana issue. So adding a piece or 2 like inna pants and/or Lacuni, add me more movement speed.

When I use one hand, I dont prefer adding more ias gear (i.e., less mobility)
In fact, I even prefer using my BT pants to give me more LoH, make it tankier toward RD.

So in general, I walk faster when carrying a skorn (well, it's funny that skorn kinda look heavier in the game ;)
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Low damage he's using a 30% soj that's the
equivalent of almost 300k damage unbuffed
I wouldn't exactly call that low damage.
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