Diablo® III

Raise the drop rate of Demonic Essences

Posts: 31
What are any of the questions asked by Blizzard in this thread relevant at all?

First, there ought to have been an intended mean time to craft a "end game" item at each slot by design based on the probability of occurrence of the craft divided by the average essence per hour at a particular MP at a particular DPS level.

Second, there ought to be a reduction to mean time to craft at higher MP's. Otherwise there's no point at all to obtaining higher DPS. The main issue here is that it doesn't seem like the incremental drop rate increase can ever possibly justify farming at higher MPs at any achievable DPS level.

Monster health (set aside damage) increases by 39% from MP9 to MP10 but the DE drop rate increases (supposedly) by 3.6%. That seems somewhat out of line with the increased time to kill those mobs. Shouldn't there be more reward for the increase health/damage?
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There's no way to change the current "most effective" way of DE farming without completely changing the mechanics of the game. What people don't notice (either because they're too stupid to notice or because they don't want to) is that none of the suggested changes to DE drop rate will change the fact that it's more efficient to farm them on MP5 than MP10. "More Kills = More Loot" is the way it works and the way it will always work.


if the drop rate were 100% on MP10 then i think the efficiency between drops and the time invested would be more equally balanced. For example, if it takes 1:30 to do a cota run or warrior's resrt run on MP10, not including teleport back to town, leave game, restart and get back to the warrior's rest again, you're talking maybe 35-40 DE drops on mp10 in a solid hour of monotonous gameplay, which is on par with the current most efficient low MP DE farmer. but knowing that after investing the time i'm GUARENTEED to have essenses, make it worthwhile even if all 40 bracer crafts are garbage...


There's no other response to this other than you're putting way too much value on the guarantee. You're putting so much value on the guarantee that you're willing to take a 30-50% hit in expected DE/hr. I can't say anything other than that's stupid. Why are you so willing to do something stupid?
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-Right now it is a pain to farm demonic essences, their drop rate is just too low for an item that much needed by the players,

-Considering the actual drop rate in mp10 is 38.9% it is just extremely low, considering most players have to craft in amounts of 100 or 200 at the same time, it just gets too annoying.

-There are some upgrades that cannont be achieved without crafting at all, i'd like demonic essences to be guaranteed when killin every single elite monster in mp10. That'd be awesome


Your post is pretty interesting, because most threads I've seen (both here and on other Diablo fan sites) typically say that Essences drop too frequently. I'm glad you created it, since it's generated a lot of great debate on the topic.

Couple of questions for you so I can get a bit of context for where your feedback is coming from (anyone is welcome to chime in):

- On what MP do you typically farm?

- Do you usually just farm casually and pick up whatever Essences you acquire along the way, or do ever go out of your way to farm Essences specifically?

- About how many Essences do you pick up in a session?

- Do you use those Essences immediately, or are you a player that likes to stock up?

- When it comes to crafting, is gold the limiting factor for you or are Essences?

- How many Essences would you like to ideally see in a farming session, and why do you feel that amount would be better than what you see currently?

Thanks!


Same, I'll answer this too :)

MP 5-6 Keeps level 1-2, Rakkis crossing, Fields.

Probably just along the way.

6-7 sometimes less, like 5-6

I like to save up to 100 per sack, then use one group at once (so 100 at once)

Essences, if I sold something ;)

Most of all is because crafting doesn't always just give you good stuff, so naturally you would need many, so after I used all my essences, I don't get anything good from them, so we are trying to buff the rates because things are not good enough.
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There's no other response to this other than you're putting way too much value on the guarantee. You're putting so much value on the guarantee that you're willing to take a 30-50% hit in expected DE/hr. I can't say anything other than that's stupid. Why are you so willing to do something stupid?


when you've put as much time as i have into the game you start developing expectations perhaps. i tell myself that i must be insane every time i play this game for hours on end and get nothing out of it other than some mild entertainment that feels more like work than fun.

the guarantee is everything jt217, back when i was farming keys and organs for the hellfire ring, if i went through 5 NV stacks on an MP less than 10, and killed the KW but got no key and/or killed all 3 ubers and get 1/3 organs, that is a stupid waste of time. i actually hate dropping down to MP5 doing VOTA runs and getting more DE's. there's 0 challenge associated with that...

this is just my opinion, you obviously have yours...
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I can understand some of your frustration as I some times also get 0 after killing 7-10 elites in mp6. But there is nothing wrong with the drop rate, and I don't think a big change will be beneficial to everyone. I have crafted over 3000 boa item to upgrade my 5 characters, but if I can get more DE to cover up the rate I get the other mats, it will be more beneficial.

The current drop rate for demonic essence is 15% +10% per mp level. But this +10% will increase depending on the previous drop rate of the previous mp. Not using the number on the base.

To add a solution to some of your complains, why not ask for an increase in chance with the increase in NV stacks, for up to 75% extra.

so for mp0 you have 15% and after 5 stack it will be +75% = 26.25%
mp1 will be 15 +10% +75% = 28.88%
mp2 will be 15 +10% +10% +75% = 31.76%
...
mp10 = 68.09%

This will benefit players that are willing to play for longer periods and not just do Warrior's Rest over and over again.

26% for mp0 is 1/4 chance, how is that anything bad?
I don't think drop rate should be 100% on mp10 only, like the Hellfire, not every player can play mp10. Inferno machine should really be a base percent that is increase with mp, but also increased with NV stacks, so players don't have to get 5 elite kills before entering into the gates since they already work hard on getting the keys with 5 stacks. Each stack should add 15% chance to drop the machine, and have the rate to drop hellfire organ the same as demonic essence. So players can get the ring in mp6 the same they get it in mp10...
For mp6 you have 26.57% to drop organ w/o NV, and with 5NV you get 26.57+75% = 101.57%

Right now, a lot of the game is based on "getting to play in mp10 efficient" this is wrong, as it defeats the purpose of having mp as players are being pushed to play the highest possible mp when it acts as a challenged base choice players can make. MP10 should be IMPOSSIBLE to play, and only playable for players that put enough time into the game, not for players that bought there ways to it.
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nah they dont need to increase the drop rates of demonic essence. i have over 1000 and i can barely stay above 10 million gold. blame blizz
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Im going ahead and just leave this here!
06/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
- On what MP do you typically farm?

MP9 when solo and mp10 when farming with friends.
06/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Do you usually just farm casually and pick up whatever Essences you acquire along the way, or do ever go out of your way to farm Essences specifically?

Most of the time on this game im farming keys. So most of the time i get 5 pack -> key -> NG. I never farm DE like some people, but i do get them all in my farming.
06/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
- About how many Essences do you pick up in a session?

Can´t really say, on average im going with a 2 - 3 DE on a key run.
06/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Do you use those Essences immediately, or are you a player that likes to stock up?

I always craft 25 itens at once. That dosent mean i get 25 DE and craft. I do whenever i'm felling lucky. Must say it´s not working for me, i'm sitting on 1,200 crafted amys trying to find an upgrade!
06/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
- When it comes to crafting, is gold the limiting factor for you or are Essences?

Disappointment is. I'm alway crafting 25 amys check them out. Not getting an upgrade, so i say to myself: I'm NEVER again crafting another amy! Couple days later there i'm crafting...
06/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How many Essences would you like to ideally see in a farming session, and why do you feel that amount would be better than what you see currently?

I do think the DE should be around 50% on mp10. I know DE are the limitation for most people (cause the other pieces you can find on the AH), but if it becomes to easy to find it becomes "too easy". And that´s never fun on video games.
06/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
Thanks!

^^
Edited by mech#1825 on 6/11/2013 7:24 PM PDT
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06/11/2013 05:21 PMPosted by BurningRope
They are now, like it or not, and making essences trade-able means you only need $$$ to have all you want. That....that is NOT Diablo.


Your right this is diablo and this game has never had BOA at all until essences came into play. It is am item farming and trading game at the core and BOA fly's in the face of what the IP has been to date. This is not a MMO its diablo and trading has always been a core aspect of the game. BOA should not exist in the game because it hinders the trading game especially when the drops are so bad.

Diablo has always worked on the simple principal of currency talks and bull walks. If you don't want to take the time to accumulate GG gear you don't have to. You can play on whatever difficulty level you want but that is no reason to make any item that is not a personal upgrade worthless. These crafted items could go on the market and make a lot more players feel powerful with their characters for cheap.
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Posts: 515
I quit playing D3 because this >.<
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No matter how many DE you've got.RNG is RNG.

You can get BIS in 5-20 crafts....or 100-200....or 1000-10000 crafts or>>> or NEVER

And the stats may not be the max?

IMO should introduce more different types of crafting materials that are more rare adding stats like;

Demonic Blood-- 5-10cc gloves&ammy (droprate are rare like 0.01%-0.1% per elite)
-- 3-6cc for razorspikes

Demon Bones-- 6-9ias (0.05%-0.5% per elite)

Demonic Soul-- 30-50cd for gloves (0.001%-0.01% per elite)
-- 50-100cd for ammy

Demonic skin -- 70-80 allres (0.01-0.1% per elite)

THIS WILL ENCOURAGE MORE crafting as you can get the STATS YOU WANT by progressing yourself! Not RNG all the time?
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- On what MP do you typically farm?
Dependent upon character, but the hardest levels that can be achieved with some efficiency.

- Do you usually just farm casually and pick up whatever Essences you acquire along the way, or do ever go out of your way to farm Essences specifically?
I never specifically go out of my way, sometimes if I am playing Perma WOTB then unless I can swiftly click it and grab it, I pass, otherwise I pick up every time.

- About how many Essences do you pick up in a session?
I vary my runs depending on how I feel, I have had at most 15-18 essences in one farm, nearly cleared.
- Do you use those Essences immediately, or are you a player that likes to stock up?
I don't always stock up on demonic essences, but when I do, I craft BOA items.
I hope someone gets that ^^ reference.

- When it comes to crafting, is gold the limiting factor for you or are Essences?
Gold for me is more of a factor than essences, but I have had sometimes where I have had more gold than essences and wished to craft more.

- How many Essences would you like to ideally see in a farming session, and why do you feel that amount would be better than what you see currently?
Ideally at least 1 in 3 Elite/Champ packs should drop one.
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MP1 pretty much IS a waste of your time. DE's will rarely drop there. I get a lot of DE's from farming MP8-10 elites and named monsters, and sometimes goblins will drop one as well.

Do a few runs attacking Ssthrass (next to the Ancient Tunnel), Mundunogo (the fallen shaman you find at the weird dock-looking area), the "unmerciful slavemaster" in the Prisoner event (I forget his name), and Ashangu (the guy that raises all the fallen maniacs from the tiny pool.) They're all in the Dahlgur Oasis. And of course, never pass up the opportunity to kill a few elites and goblins you find on the way as well. Altogether I've found myself with probably 958 DE's in my stash (this is a roundabout number) since they were first introduced. And I've spent quite a few of them on crafting, so the total number of DE's I've found altogether might easily be over 1000.

Hope this helps.
Edited by MimSiE#1669 on 6/11/2013 8:30 PM PDT
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Suggestion: Why not give us some demonic essences from salvaging items? They shouldn't be tied only to drops. Any rare Ilvl 62-63 items salvaged should be able to give you DE's. An legendary over Ilvl 60 should give you brimstone and DE upon salvaging. Special events should give DE and any boss should automatically drop a DE.

Blue please read.


This is not a good suggestion. The whole idea of DEs is that you must play the game in order to get these crafts. The point is to make sure people are rewarded for playing the game rather than the AH. By letting ilvl 62-63 items salvage into DEs then you give auction house warriors the ability to buy their way to the top again which is counter to the whole idea of DEs and the new account bound crafting system.

DEs must be obtainable by playing the game only and not through the auction house.
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BOA crap should be removed from DE since all craft with DE is BOA :)
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There are two types of players:
players with too much gold and no DE to craft;
players with stacks of DE with no gold to craft.

And DE was supposed to be a gold sink. Now I have the gold I want to spend but can't lol
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Just wondering, when have people ever said that they drop to frequently? I'm not trying to be disrespectful however, you act like wanting the drop rates raised is a new point of view, it is very common and it has actually been a "popular topic" on these forums multiple times. I realize you may not always see it but it has happened quite a bit.
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06/11/2013 06:56 PMPosted by AnHiLaToR
There's no other response to this other than you're putting way too much value on the guarantee. You're putting so much value on the guarantee that you're willing to take a 30-50% hit in expected DE/hr. I can't say anything other than that's stupid. Why are you so willing to do something stupid?


when you've put as much time as i have into the game you start developing expectations perhaps. i tell myself that i must be insane every time i play this game for hours on end and get nothing out of it other than some mild entertainment that feels more like work than fun.

the guarantee is everything jt217, back when i was farming keys and organs for the hellfire ring, if i went through 5 NV stacks on an MP less than 10, and killed the KW but got no key and/or killed all 3 ubers and get 1/3 organs, that is a stupid waste of time. i actually hate dropping down to MP5 doing VOTA runs and getting more DE's. there's 0 challenge associated with that...

this is just my opinion, you obviously have yours...


What you're saying to me, right here, is that you are absolutely fine with getting 50% less DEs long term, as long as you can get one every time. You could farm mp5 and kill 300 elites and wind up with about 150 DEs or you could spend the same amount of time on mp10 and only kill 100 elites and get exactly 100 DEs. You'd choose mp10. You're essentially the type of person that takes even money vs. a dealer ace even though you know that insurance is a horrible bet.

Furthermore, DEs and keys are completely different because you're required to get 5 stacks before killing a Keywarden. Which increases the time you spend in game and increases the mp level at which you are most efficient. I know that you don't like math and numbers cause it's hard and stuff, but you're willfully being ignorant of reality, which is one of the worst things you can do in life.
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The only limiting factor for me is the gold price for crafts
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06/11/2013 04:15 PMPosted by Relentless
A lot of the players that feel the drop rate is way to low seem to also believe that MP10 should be the best MP for farming them. It's not. MP5-6 is where the top geared players mostly farm DE for a reason


You are correct MP5-6 is the best place to farm DEs but why should it be that way? Why can't players who are capable of handling MP10 be rewarded equally by playing in an MP level that is fun for them. Why force players with 400k DPS to farm MP5-6 instead of 10?

It would be better if players could CHOOSE which MP is fun for them without feeling gimped by their choice.
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BOA crap should be removed from DE since all craft with DE is BOA :)


No because then players with lots of gold (either through flipping or RMAH) can essentially craft their BiS gear without playing the game (just by buying DEs and other mats). That is the opposite of what the BOA system was trying to achieve.

The point is to reward players for playing the game and not the AH.
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