Diablo® III

So Its "OFFICIAL" The ps3/ps4 gets the better version

Lylirra, I think the big question the community here is asking and wants an honest answer to is this:

The console version of Diablo 3 uses the same skills and abilities, and the same core stat mechanics, and yet has an itemization package in place or near enough to be put into place to have it ready in September when the game launches (August really since it takes time to master, batch, and ship boxed copies to stores). Why is it then, if the console version is using the same stat and affix system as the PC version, does the PC version have to wait quite a few months longer to receive its itemization patch?

I get that the console version has no AH and a minimalist trading system, but everything else being the same stat wise, how is it they get the itemization fix first and we get to wait until most likely next year at the earliest? That doesn't really make sense to me, or to most other players here.

I'm not fond of calling anybody out, but in this case somebody has some explaining to do, because if a viable loot model is ready for one version of Diablo 3, then it can't be that difficult to port it over to the other version. If the AH is your issue, then you need to deal with that now, not later, thereby forcing us to wait until that fix is in too.

I think I can speak fairly well for the community in this instance when I say that we didn't expect to pay $60 to buy into a two year Diablo version of the Final Fantasy XIV fiasco. 1.0.8 came out on May 7th, over a month ago and we've been talking itemization since January (actively at least - much longer than that in actuality). Asking us to wait out such a long period of time when there appears to be a workable itemization mdoel on the console version just plain seems absurd.

I think we deserve an explanation why "our" dev team can't pick the brains of the console dev team(s) and get that ball rolling much sooner. Using BlizzCon as the gateway cop-out isn't sitting too well with most of us, myself included.
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Really good write up. I hope this gets answered. Im sure it'll take a few days they need to collaborate on how they can answer this without getting them in trouble or without revealing the truth.
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Guys an itemization patch on the PC version is going to directly effect the RMAH...

I mean what else is there to say?
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Guys an itemization patch on the PC version is going to directly effect the RMAH...

I mean what else is there to say?


Then the RMAH needs to go. Period. It's crippled the game since its launch. It's time for Blizzard to decide what it wants more: short term money from the RMAH or long term brand/company loyalty from its players and restored faith in the development teams.

Honestly, I would choose the latter since the ripple effects of the former are more far reaching than most might realize.
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Guys an itemization patch on the PC version is going to directly effect the RMAH...

I mean what else is there to say?


Then the RMAH needs to go. Period. It's crippled the game since its launch. It's time for Blizzard to decide what it wants more: short term money from the RMAH or long term brand/company loyalty from its players and restored faith in the development teams.

Honestly, I would choose the latter since the ripple effects of the former are more far reaching than most might realize.
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I could not agree more.

But until this community comes together for something other than bytching, the RMAH isn't going anywhere.

It's the best of both worlds, heavy micro-transactions in a full price game.

We have to mutiny, we have to demand it shut down, but more importantly, we have to stop using it.

You're not going to cut your arm off just to spite your thumb, as long as it's generating revenue, it's going to stay.

viva la resistance, once the console version is out, so shall I be
Edited by Bobolexi#1794 on 6/15/2013 2:43 PM PDT
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I really like how Blizzard acknowledges that itemization has it's flaws....

For a reference apple with flaw...
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTK4ZooDys_rOWqS2XNgW-zBTiUOf3GzDpHMeGEbASAYxP_P0Oe

What itemization would look like if it were an apple...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRy1nseDg42-R5B68ocSBdjeUdGxAeehhhdaTOeAfb84h7OYy0S
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That shot of Belial makes me a bit envious.. Then again, how often are u lookin at the character's while playing. Still, would look so bad@ss on playback.. Ya, I feel like we've certainly been beta testers for the last year, but I enjoy the game so I might even get a cheap PS3 or xbox for the console experience to play with some of you b!tches in person! :)
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06/11/2013 06:22 PMPosted by Lylirra
We admit the item game we created in Diablo III has flaws, we've openly admitted those flaws to our players and that we want to improve them.


And we have yet to see real changes. So forgive us if we're skeptical. Very skeptical.
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06/15/2013 02:30 AMPosted by TheTias
The console version of Diablo 3 uses the same skills and abilities, and the same core stat mechanics, and yet has an itemization package in place or near enough to be put into place to have it ready in September when the game launches (August really since it takes time to master, batch, and ship boxed copies to stores). Why is it then, if the console version is using the same stat and affix system as the PC version, does the PC version have to wait quite a few months longer to receive its itemization patch?


The console and PC iterations have completely different "monster density" so they can't simply port the same 'quality over quantity" formula to the PC version, it needs to be balanced and tailored for the PC version. I think players need to start moving away from considering the two games to be synonymous, they are essentially two different titles.

It's also been confirmed that the itemization changes will land as one major patch for the PC version, referred to as "Item 2.0" by the devs. So even if they do have certain aspects of the revamp ready, we won't see them until they're all completed. So by all means the quality over quantity aspect may very well be finalized but they are holding it off so we receive it as a package. I think that's a great approach personally.
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Posted by Lylirra
We admit the item game we created in Diablo III has flaws, we've openly admitted those flaws to our players and that we want to improve them.


Where did they admit that ?
Link please.
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Guys an itemization patch on the PC version is going to directly effect the RMAH...

I mean what else is there to say?


Then the RMAH needs to go. Period. It's crippled the game since its launch. It's time for Blizzard to decide what it wants more: short term money from the RMAH or long term brand/company loyalty from its players and restored faith in the development teams.

Honestly, I would choose the latter since the ripple effects of the former are more far reaching than most might realize.
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Official Mac Tech Support Forum Cookie™ (Mint Chocolate Chip)
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Agreed, this is getting a bit ridiculous. You've got Jay Wilson, Rob Pardo, and Travis Day all admitting publicly that the AH and itemization around it has been deleterious to the game, yet there's been nothing significantly done to remedy it in like a year and a half now. Then we have the console version releasing, which addresses the aforementioned issues, but us PC guys get nothing. The excuse that "the console versions and PC version are different projects" is intellectually dishonest at best.

This really seems like a pretty scumbag move, and it's only being done to continue the RMAH revenue generation stream. Everyone knows that if you fix the itemization, you also then fix the reliance on the AH too.

I really hope that Blizzard doesn't count goodwill as an asset, because it's all but evaporated as far as this project goes. It will be interesting to see what happens when people play the console version and realize just how badly the loot has been adulterated in the PC version. The people who still can't figure out that the drops revolve around the AH will be in for a surprise.
Edited by Cryogen#1749 on 6/19/2013 12:02 PM PDT
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all i wanted was for d3 to have offline mode and i didnt give a !@#$ about AH its stupid and is the reason for drm. i should just pirate a cracked version so i can play offline, there are even petitions on several sites to have an offline mode put in for the pc d3, yet still no change.

do we even have pvp yet? i dunno i havent played in a while. like, since launch week.
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06/11/2013 03:41 PMPosted by Lylirra
There's a chance that when a white or gray item drops, that it will be automatically converted to gold too.


Seriously? Perhaps you guys should consider this for PC too since people are asking to hide them and you guys have never really seemed to like the idea of them having much use outside of making "loot explosions."

The downside is that the blog came out just as we were starting to approach our itemization revamp, so there's not been a lot of new information to share between then and now.


Wait... so you guys were starting to work on the itemization 3 months ago and it's not going to even be out before Blizzcon? This stuff is going to take bloody effing more than 8 eight months to do? Really? Do you know how incompetent that makes you guys look?
Edited by Scorch#1428 on 6/21/2013 8:51 PM PDT
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Posts: 197
Not sure what you're actually looking for here with your comment?


Your previous statement about trying not to rush the itemization seems a bit off. Instead of "overnight", you may have meant "over 4,000 nights".

06/11/2013 03:59 PMPosted by Lylirra
We can definitely understand that players would like said changes made overnight -- heck, we would too -- but we'd much rather take our time and come up with something that's actually meaningful and relevant, rather than implement something quickly that doesn't satisfy the current problems and/or make the game anymore engaging.


Lets compare the development periods of a few games (by Blizzard and by others):

  • Deus Ex: 1994-2000
  • The Elder Scrolls Morrowind: 1998-2003
  • The Elder Scrolls Skyrim: 2006-2011
  • Half Life: 1996*-1998
  • Dark Souls: 2009*-2011
  • Torchlight 2: 2009*-2012

  • Diablo 2/LOD: 1996*-2001
  • Starcraft 2 (WoL): 2003-2010
  • World of Warcraft (Vanilla): 1999-2004

  • Diablo 3: 2001-2012+

  • D3 blows the other games out of the water in how long it took to make! Perhaps you can provide a simple explanation of the decade plus long development process of creating the flawed "item game" that you're trying to improve after release?
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    You forgot GTA, think the average development for the big ones like GTA V and GTA IV were like 5 years ?
    GTA has never dissapointed me.
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    06/22/2013 12:11 AMPosted by Variable
    Not sure what you're actually looking for here with your comment?


    Your previous statement about trying not to rush the itemization seems a bit off. Instead of "overnight", you may have meant "over 4,000 nights".

    06/11/2013 03:59 PMPosted by Lylirra
    We can definitely understand that players would like said changes made overnight -- heck, we would too -- but we'd much rather take our time and come up with something that's actually meaningful and relevant, rather than implement something quickly that doesn't satisfy the current problems and/or make the game anymore engaging.


    Lets compare the development periods of a few games (by Blizzard and by others):

  • Deus Ex: 1994-2000
  • The Elder Scrolls Morrowind: 1998-2003
  • The Elder Scrolls Skyrim: 2006-2011
  • Half Life: 1996*-1998
  • Dark Souls: 2009*-2011
  • Torchlight 2: 2009*-2012

  • Diablo 2/LOD: 1996*-2001
  • Starcraft 2 (WoL): 2003-2010
  • World of Warcraft (Vanilla): 1999-2004

  • Diablo 3: 2001-2012+

  • D3 blows the other games out of the water in how long it took to make! Perhaps you can provide a simple explanation of the decade plus long development process of creating the flawed "item game" that you're trying to improve after release?


    That's actually not true, the game we are playing now was not a decade long dev.

    The version we have now started development approx 2006 not 2001. The 2001 version by Blizzard North was 100% scrapped in 2005 and a whole new team started from scratch. That means they didn't utilize any existing elements whatsoever from the previous dev (not even conceptual art).

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that itemization in it's current form is flawed, but your argument by comparison of dev lengths is unfounded.
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    Posts: 197
    That's actually not true, the game we are playing now was not a decade long dev.

    The version we have now started development approx 2006 not 2001. The 2001 version by Blizzard North was 100% scrapped in 2005 and a whole new team started from scratch. That means they didn't utilize any existing elements whatsoever from the previous dev (not even conceptual art).

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that itemization in it's current form is flawed, but your argument by comparison of dev lengths is unfounded.


    I disagree completely. The development of Diablo 3 (according to wikipedia) was started with Blizzard North in 2001 and still continues. If the D3 they were working on was a completely different game, such as a racing game or a first person shooter, then I would agree with you. However, the D3 they were working on was the next in the Diablo series and not some scrapped and abandoned game altogether. You can't disregard the time and effort that went into creating that even if their version was not similar to what we have right now.

    Here's a hypothetical example: if Blizzard hired me for a few days to create completely different itemization and throw the old system out, I can't claim that it took Blizzard a couple days to create their itemization system. The work and process in the past cannot be ignored; there were many lessons learned and an evolution of itemization from start (Blizzard North 2001) until now (my few days of creating something completely different).
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    Btw i think our names should be in the end credits of the console game for beta testing.
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    The console and PC iterations have completely different "monster density" so they can't simply port the same 'quality over quantity" formula to the PC version, it needs to be balanced and tailored for the PC version. I think players need to start moving away from considering the two games to be synonymous, they are essentially two different titles.

    It's also been confirmed that the itemization changes will land as one major patch for the PC version, referred to as "Item 2.0" by the devs. So even if they do have certain aspects of the revamp ready, we won't see them until they're all completed. So by all means the quality over quantity aspect may very well be finalized but they are holding it off so we receive it as a package. I think that's a great approach personally.


    This. People keep complaining about the itemization method being implemented in console should be simply ported to PC.

    1. they are 2 DIFFERENT games with separate development teams
    2. They have different monster densities - they have probably done the math, that clearing an act 1 console will yield less drops in general than act 1 on PC, so the item drop tweaking needs to be done
    3. the lack of an AH (which I think is due to the game using b.net servers so player safety is an issue) will now restrict the availability of items in the economy.

    It is natural the team developing the console version would have arrived to this, and as such needed to come up with solutions that are unique to console. Their need for a different itemization solution is natural to the console economy would present.

    Porting the console solution may not be right for PC because there already is a fast delivery method to move items to market, and on top of that a run may yield more drops in general due to monster numbers. Without testing and calculations, that could potentially blow up an economy and where you need the crappy items to make the higher quality items sell for the values they are currently selling for - and hence create an item hunt.
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    For 2 different games they sure look a like ,only the pc got the worst version.
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