Diablo® III

So Its "OFFICIAL" The ps3/ps4 gets the better version



Not sure what you're actually looking for here with your comment? We admit the item game we created in Diablo III has flaws, we've openly admitted those flaws to our players and that we want to improve them. The next big step is to identify the right way to fix those flaws and, in the process, really re-capture that lust for loot and feeling of "HOLY CRAP ORANGE" that many players feel is missing right now.


I think the best thing you guys can do for Itemization is reducing the amount of useless affixes on items. The holy crap an orange could be restored if that 1 or 2 random affixes would have significantly less affixes they could role and all of them being something at least moderately useful to a class or build type. Honestly If the legendaries were worth finding people would not mind a legendary drop rate nerf. They're found almost every run I do now and I never get excited about them and I feel like all the players here should get that wow factor when a legendary drops.

Even if the drops were nerfed, the 1 time that legendary drops for someone if they knew that holy crap this could be amazing or at worst still good they would be satisfied IMO and get that excitement back of seeing that orange beam of light.
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Really it just boils down to blizz putting resources to make the console version that should have been put towards fixing the PC game and finally making that a good, stable platform. This makes your current PC fans feel like the console game is just a blatant cash grab. I think most of us understand D3 will never have the resources and development rate WoW has, and that makes sense, but do work fast and hard to at least fix D3 and make it good. Then while we wait for expansion, pvp or w/e it might be we'll have a good game to play vs just constantly feeling like all we're doing is waiting for that once patch that will finally address the real issues.
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[quote]But I don't know -- is that something that you guys would appreciate? We're always willing to experiment and find out what method works best to getting you information about the game. (Granted, it may not always be new information since Diablo III doesn't iterate as frequently as games like World of Warcraft or ones that are still in beta, but I think just having some transparency and candid communication with the developers would be nice.)


It is something I would appreciate, I used to play Runescape all the time; even becoming a player mod after 8 months and what jagex used to do each month was give us a behind the scenes showing upcoming content.

I know that it is not practical for you to do a behind the scenes piece every month because they tended to stagger updates for a year which allowed them to do that, but once a month posts telling us what you have been up to would be great, and would let us see where it is up to rather than this "in the dark" feeling we have now :)
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That's disrespectful towards the community, even though I know you guys regret that the itemization blog came out so soon (e.g. Travis Day said that in his interview with Archon on Twitch). Once it's done, just stand up to it, don't hide your heads behind your hands, like they could cover you.

So, Lylirra, this comes from a respectful player who loves D3 : why did you guys stop communicating about itemization for so long ? You come out as very unprofessional, especially after you yourself said you guys were going to make efforts to communicate with the community


That's fair. At the moment, we just don't have a lot of details to share about itemization (beyond what we've already communicated). Our goal is always to share new information once it's available, but the tricky part is what to communicate in between those points. Do we just reiterate what we've already said? Do we talk high-level only? Or do we just remain mum until that new information is out? Players are definitely divided on what they want.

Going to back to Travis's blog, itemization was a very popular topic and we wanted to acknowledge the concerns that players had officially, even if we didn't have a lot of details to share about how we were going to approach specific pain points. That was also feedback we'd heard a lot of: "We don't care if you don't have any details to share. Just respond to us." And so that particular developer journal blog was born, as well as the following Ask the Devs topic.

The upside to posting Travis's blog when we did is that is tackled some of the major discussions players were having while they were new and relevant. It was also a direct response to the feedback we'd been given. The downside is that the blog came out just as we were starting to approach our itemization revamp, so there's not been a lot of new information to share between then and now. We're still working on the same ideas and theories, but nothing's really reached a point where we can communicate that a) these are the things have been locked down and b) here are all the details of how those systems will work. Also, the communication we've provided on those "in-between" stages has been met with a lot of criticism (see the responses to the all itemization-related "Ask the Devs" answers) so far. Some people even said: "I don't know why you're even bothering to answer this if you don't have any details to share" -- which was the exact opposite feedback we'd heard just a few weeks prior.

We'd love to do more informal chats like what Travis and Wyatt did with Archon on the May 15, where the developers just take some time to casually talk about the game and their approach to certain issues. We might not have a lot of new information to share in those chats, but at least it would establish a nice of cadence of conversation. Less formal, more frequent.

But I don't know -- is that something that you guys would appreciate? We're always willing to experiment and find out what method works best to getting you information about the game. (Granted, it may not always be new information since Diablo III doesn't iterate as frequently as games like World of Warcraft or ones that are still in beta, but I think just having some transparency and candid communication with the developers would be nice.)


The problem is Lylirra...that without itemization, there is no reason to play. It doesn't matter if you play with friends, play alone, play in public games, play hardcore. It all boils down to when you I.D. 500 rare items and they are almost always vendor trash. It's disheartening. It makes me want to quit playing. I don't even bother logging in anymore, because it's always the same thing..stupid affixes on items, finding garbage for 2 to 3 hours and vendoring or breaking down everything.
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Also, the communication we've provided on those "in-between" stages has been met with a lot of criticism (see the responses to the all itemization-related "Ask the Devs" answers) so far. Some people even said: "I don't know why you're even bothering to answer this if you don't have any details to share" -- which was the exact opposite feedback we'd heard just a few weeks prior.

That's because most of the answers you gave in Ask the Devs were complete non-answers.


We'd love to do more informal chats like what Travis and Wyatt did with Archon on the May 15, where the developers just take some time to casually talk about the game and their approach to certain issues. We might not have a lot of new information to share in those chats, but at least it would establish a nice of cadence of conversation. Less formal, more frequent.

Completely agree with this. More communication would be better. You guys should check out how often League of Legends developers chat with the community.

I mean, look at this thread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3424065

132 responses from a developer sharing his throught process, why certain things worked, why certain things didn't work, taking feedback from the community, and actually caring about their responses.

This is just completely and utterly mind blowingly awesome compared to how you guys operate.

ps. I also think it's complete BS that you guys were able to implement the "fewer items, better quality" improvement for the console version BEFORE you implemented it for the PC version. I understand that they are different development teams, but what the heck is the PC dev team? Do they have far fewer resources? Are they slower? I just don't get it.
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I feel the important question to ask is 'once the itemisation is fixed; what is next? Finding a new item is nice but to what with it. Same acts over an over. No new quests, puzzles, goals for your character. Love D3 but I am even starting to loose interest. With so many unopened 'doors' on each map imagine if they lead somewhere? A level that goes up a MP every 10 mintues and does not end at MP 10. Drops then linked to how long you lasted? Link the use of gems to characters levels. How about combining gems, an off hand item that can be used for 2 handed weapons for all characters, items that have great benefits that come at the losss of other skills, skill bonus based on how long you have played without dying e.g. loss of a nep valor stacks..... I could go on but got to get back to the game.
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I can't claim to speak for the entire community, but as far as "how to communicate" when you have no major information to share... I understand that dilemma. The timing of the blog post and the inability to answer many of the biggest questions in Ask the Devs (which I believe is why people overall were dissatisfied) is all unfortunate.

But how about this: Can you share one item (ideally one a week in a blog post detailing the process and discussions going on)? One example of an item that has been re-designed, be it a set piece, legendary, or something else? In 3 months is there really not a single thing that we could be shown so that we know what work is being done and have something to look forward to?

Worst case scenario, people would be critical of whatever is shown, but at least the development team would have that feedback to take into consideration as they continue working on the patch.
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06/11/2013 06:22 PMPosted by Lylirra
Over a decade and counting ain't enough?


Not sure what you're actually looking for here with your comment? We admit the item game we created in Diablo III has flaws, we've openly admitted those flaws to our players and that we want to improve them. The next big step is to identify the right way to fix those flaws and, in the process, really re-capture that lust for loot and feeling of "HOLY CRAP ORANGE" that many players feel is missing right now.


You can start (honestly, not being sarcastic or mean) with changing that to "HOLY CRAP GOLD WITH CLASSIC DIABLO FONT"
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[quote]

Going to back to Travis's blog, itemization was a very popular topic and we wanted to acknowledge the concerns that players had officially, even if we didn't have a lot of details to share about how we were going to approach specific pain points. That was also feedback we'd heard a lot of: "We don't care if you don't have any details to share. Just respond to us." And so that particular developer journal blog was born, as well as the following Ask the Devs topic.


NO IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TOPIC AND WILL BE UNTIL IT IS FIXED
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06/11/2013 04:09 PMPosted by Lylirra
Everything we get is super rushed feeling instead of complete and considering the amount of time you guys spend being mum about things, we are being reasonable to doubt you guys care.


We know that some players feel that way about previous changes we've made (i.e. legendary improvements), and it's not unreasonable. Even if that's not actually the case, that's part of the reason why we're taking things a little more slowly this time around and really looking at more big/sweeping changes to the core of the item game.


I never developed a game, but when I do something, I usually do it with alot of care, that's just my line of work, unfortunately, I don't have millions of people who pay for my work...

This being said... why isn't it the case with a million dollar game industry?

Oh right, ECON sucks right now...

peace
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TL:DR - The "item hunt" is simply not working right on PC at the moment. Consoles are going to get the interim 'band-aid' to try to help since there will be no AH. Both versions will catch up when Blizzard pull their fingers out and revamp the whole item side of the game.

I say wipe everything and just start again, but the problem is now Blizzard have dug themselves in a hole and don't want to refund or seriously piss off everyone who did spend real cash on buying current items for their toons on the AH. I really feel that no matter what they do now, it will either HAVE to be a revamp entirely of all itemisation and the "item hunt" causing a huge outcry from the idiots who spent hundreds of real cash dollars on digital property, or it will be a massive compromise which won't actually address the root cause of the issue and therefore won't fix the "item hunt" side of the game because to do so they would tread on too many people's toes.

Basically, to quote a famous person "this !@#$ is whack" :(
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Can somebody explain me why i need to find this topic at page 5 instead of page 1 ?
And i seriously cannot understand how the devs coult have fecked this game up so much.
Diden't Josh Mosqueira said :To this end, you can expect to hear more from our designers, producers, and directors about what we have in store.
Did he meant for the pc players or people that are going to buy it on the console ?
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Hello Lylirra,

Thank you for your honest answer, I'll respond to it although I know you'll probably only read and not respond to it, because it's not a chat here. But I have faith that you do your job well, so I'll respond knowing I most probably won't get another response.

06/11/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Lylirra
That's fair. At the moment, we just don't have a lot of details to share about itemization (beyond what we've already communicated).


I'm sorry but I don't believe this. To be more accurate, I think what you guys consider "new stuff", "details about itemization" is not the same thing as the community.

To me, if you don't have anything new it's because you guys all went on vacation for three months and didn't work at all. You have to make a difference between new concepts and new material : Itemization blog was new concepts, but I believe (and hope) that you guys have turned some of these concepts to reality : you probably created new affixes, rolled iLvL 63 Legendaries that could be 63 before, inserted items customization, Legendary dying, etc.

Why don't you guys share some of this material ? Here's a suggestion :
You certainly have an internal ETA on the itemization patch. Although you guys don't have to communicate on it, you can make a communication strategy revolving around this ETA.
Imagine your ETA is in 2 months (that's kinda extreme, I really, really, REALLY hope it comes sooner) : now you can evaluate how much new content you have and release this :

Itemization snippets

In these short blogs you guys could show, without going in details, screenshots of new stuff. For example :
- iLvL 63 http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/leorics-signet, iLvL 63 http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/sledge-fist, iLvL 63 http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/moonlight-ward etc
- Badly rolled Spirit stone, Wizard Hat, Cloak, insert class specific item here, so that we can see how items will be useful again
- Newly coloured legendaries
- Later on maybe show some new affixes (for rare AND Legendary items)

All this comes with very little description and a lot of non-committal language, we don't care !! We just want to see you guys are actually working on new stuff, and have some previews of what it'll look like. You don't have to go in-depth about how it'll work out with all the rest of the changes, but at least we can see some new stuff and keep our hopes up.

06/11/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Lylirra
Also, the communication we've provided on those "in-between" stages has been met with a lot of criticism (see the responses to the all itemization-related "Ask the Devs" answers) so far. Some people even said: "I don't know why you're even bothering to answer this if you don't have any details to share" -- which was the exact opposite feedback we'd heard just a few weeks prior.


Ask The Dev's was a really good initiative, and all the smart people that I saw comment on it really appreciate it. We all look forward to it. I love it, and while there were some disappointing answers (I read every blue post, so I know when something has already been answered, but that’s not your fault), many of them were very interesting.

So, why did you guys get so much criticism ?
The answer for me comes essentially from some mistakes you made, which is totally normal since no one is perfect.

The main mistake you guys did was lack of transparency.

For instance, people couldn't see how many votes the questions had. Also, they didn't get any justification as to why some highly voted questions didn't get an answer.
Why is this such a big deal ? Because this lack of transparency opened the doors to A LOT of speculation. And speculation will always turn out bad for Blizzard in sensitive matters like these. This opened the doors to things like :
- "Blizzard only chose to answer the easy questions"
- "They only answered the questions to which they already had given the answers before"
- "The only questions that get answered are the ones approved by the evil shareholders of ActiBli$$ard"
- "Why do AtD if there's nothing new to share ?"
- "Etc"

If we knew how many votes each question had, we would probably blame the community for voting up stupid/already answered questions, instead of being against Blizzard.
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06/11/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Lylirra
We'd love to do more informal chats like what Travis and Wyatt did with Archon on the May 15, where the developers just take some time to casually talk about the game and their approach to certain issues. We might not have a lot of new information to share in those chats, but at least it would establish a nice of cadence of conversation. Less formal, more frequent.


While the more communication we get, the better, I personally don't like this. I hate audio/video chats, especially the long ones, because there's no built argument, and I can't go and find the info I want right away. I can't roam through some text and focus on certain parts. Also, I like to read D3 stuff at work, and I don't have access to it if it's audio/video.

Here's a question : why do you consider AtD as a formal communication channel ? It shouldn’t be formal !! As you can see, I like AtD and don’t think you guys should stop doing it, it’s IMO one of the best communication formats.

Anyways, enough talking, thank you again for your answers, I know you guys are doing your best, just don’t leave the community without any info for so long, this is bad for you guys.

PS : Sorry for my english, it's not my natural language.
Edited by Mist3rHyde#2460 on 6/12/2013 9:29 AM PDT
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I never developed a game, but when I do something, I usually do it with alot of care, that's just my line of work, unfortunately, I don't have millions of people who pay for my work...

This being said... why isn't it the case with a million dollar game industry?

Oh right, ECON sucks right now...

peace


That was a stupid thing to say. I DO develop games and software. The amount of time and effort involved in making a simple iphone game is incredible. Let alone a massive game like Diablo. Blizzard takes their time. They always do. Stuff never comes out as early as we would like it to. Deal with it, or just don't buy their games.

The vitriol against Blizzard is retarded. Just do what most of us do--if you're not having fun then go play another game for a while (Playing through Ninja Gaiden: RE on Ultimate Ninja mode myself) until this patch is ready.

I can't think of any other game I've bought since the original Gears of War that I was still playing over a year later.

That and Diablo II. Which I've reinstalled and played to death probably 5 different times.

Anyway...I just get sick of all the crybabies on these forums. I'm still having fun.
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Can we get this discussion moved to the General Forum? I just barely found this, as most tracker sites don't track the Under-construction sites (http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/ doesn't), and this is pretty important for PC version, and if you sit inside the forum you don't see latest posts from blizzard employee's at the top.

But I really think Lylirra's posts need to be seen by the community at large, and not hidden in here.
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But how about this: Can you share one item (ideally one a week in a blog post detailing the process and discussions going on)? One example of an item that has been re-designed, be it a set piece, legendary, or something else? In 3 months is there really not a single thing that we could be shown so that we know what work is being done and have something to look forward to?

Worst case scenario, people would be critical of whatever is shown, but at least the development team would have that feedback to take into consideration as they continue working on the patch.


Funny, I had written my response this morning, but we had a very similar idea. I suggest something less compromising though, just a screenshot with something interesting, not necessarily any further details.

Anyways, I agree that Blizzard MUST share some stuff with the community, and stop doing (only) fan art/events/trivial "favorite/funniest/blabla" posts. Every time I see one of those I almost feel insulted by Blizzard.
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Wow this is hidden so deep in the Console section no one will ever notice it. It should definitely be moved to general since it goes way beyond Console.
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