Diablo® III

120sec cooldown PETS should NEVER DIE!!

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This is long, but I would like everyone to notice the flawed design in summoned units.

You can summon 4 types of Support Unit in this Game, they are (examples)
  • allies
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/companion
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/active/familiar
  • decoys
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/mystic-ally
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/active/mirror-image
  • turrets
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/sentry
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/active/hydra
  • stations
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/inner-sanctuary
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/big-bad-voodoo
    And out of the 4 kinds only decoys will be destroyed, but out of the 5 classes only Monks have a 0 cooldown decoy.

    I have no idea how much Life does each pets have but Mystic Ally can deal 40% dps and only cost 25 Spirit. The nearest by comparison to cost is Demon Hunter's Boar Companion, deals 38% dps and cost 10 Discipline with a 30 seconds cooldown. A Monk can gain about 100 Spirit per second while a Hunter can only only gain about 20 Discipline per second. With 100 Spirit you can make 4 summon, with 20 Discipline you can make 2 summon but each will be 30 seconds apart. In other words, Companion should deal 3-5 times more damage compare to Mystic Ally. If the cooldown in Companion is to prevent players from wasting their resource then a 1 second cast delay similar to Shadow Power is all it needs. There is no reason for this cooldown, it makes them WEAK, and useless in time of need. I'm not the designer so I have no idea why the cooldown was added in 1.0.5. Each decoy type skills need to deal more damage if a cooldown is stopping players from casting them.

    Mirror Image is the funniest decoy type unit, it only last 7 seconds but it also have a 25% of your Life Pool, so it will die if it is hit. The skill have a 15 seconds cooldown, so personally I think it should work like Zombie Dogs, Companion, Mystic Ally, etc. once summon the unit stays until destroyed. This is the only decoy unit that have tooltip telling us how much Life it has, but it is also the only unit that DOES NOT deal damage by default. Zombie Dogs can deal 9% and there are 3 of them which adds up to 27%. Add 10% damage to these shouldn't hurt. Now, if you look at the video in the Game Guide, you will see that after casting "you move" away from the mobs, but this is a lie... The spell will "move you" into random direction away from your position of cast. If the skill is like the effect on http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-grin-reaper where the copies are summoned by your side without moving the player will give us more control over the spell.

    There are a few 120 seconds cooldown skills, and they are suppose to be the most powerful skills in the Game. But unfortunately some of these skills are decoy type summoned units. Decoy type units will be attacked and destroyed. IF they stayed alive at all time they can deal massive damage to nearby enemies.
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/active/call-of-the-ancients
    3 Units, 60% damage, 15 second duration
    3x 60% x 15 = 2700% weapon damage
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/fetish-army
    5 Units, 20% damage, 20 second duration
    5x 20% x 20 = 2000% weapon damage
    Now, if you ever used these skills how long did these units last? Depending on the monster strength, I would say 3-8 seconds. So players are wasting 120 seconds of their time to summon a few pets to dance around and die before they can even deal damage, yes, these units sometime die before they can reach their target. Summoned units with a duration limit should work like turrets and stations, they should not take ANY damage after they become summoned.

    Skills are not under used by players, they are under used by the designers. These kind of problems would not have existed if the staff team have tested each skill and their possibilities and potentials in different scenarios. Why give players a choice that will be removed after a few attempts. I'm pretty sure the team designed every skill and rune so there are massive numbers of build for players to choice from, but why am I not seeing them.

    ===================================================================

    This is a bit off track, but I would like to add.
    Wizard can only summon 1 Hydra, Demon Hunter can only summon 1 Sentry, but after 1.0.5 Demon Hunter can summon 2 Sentries with a 8 seconds cooldown in between.
    The cost of 1 Hydra is 1.5 seconds with base Arcane Power Regeneration
    deals 28% x3 = 84% for 15 seconds
    = 1260%
    The cost of 1 Sentry is 7.5 seconds with base Hatred Regeneration
    deals 175% for 30 seconds
    = 2625 per 15s, 5250 per 30s
    Sentry cost 5x more resource, but deal 4x more damage, and the ability of having 2-3 Sentries on the field easily over come this cost difference. IF Hydra base cost is increased to 30 AP with a 5 seconds cooldown in between, but allow the players to summon 3 sets of hydra on the field, we have the following result
    deals 28% x3 = 84% for 15 seconds
    = 1260 +840 +420 = 2520%
    and after 15 seconds = 3780% per 15s as you can keep summoning hydra before it ends
    compare to sentries
    = 2625 +1225 = 3850% at 15s, 5250-7875% per 15s (2-3 Sentries).
    The number might look lower form Hydra but you can cast different Arcane spenders with Wizard while having all 3 active Hydras where as for a Demon Hunter it will be nearly impossible to keep up all 3 Sentries and keep using Hatred spenders without using other means of Hatred Regeneration.
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    i have always wished hydra was a permanant summon. I would find it considerably more useful had that been the case.
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    I thought you knew? They don't test the skills for viability or balance, they just see if they pop up, leave and do damage. You do realize they literally only made this game to create a cash cow and any effort they put into the game is next to none. Every update except for maybe, maybe, 5-10% was all copy/paste or just a change in numbers. None of it was tested most likely and if it were, it was only to see if it worked. No scenarios were tested most likely. If there were scenarios tested, it was from a prosaic tester. The only time anything ever gets tested is in a beta. I never tested the DE beta and clearly people made a mistake with the drop rates. Most likely people didn't want to test the DE rate for more then a few hours simply because it's pointless for them. They aren't getting paid to test the game. A paid tester should be finding every conceivable type of glitch or exploit they can think of. Not push the button, oh it goes, done and done.
    Reply Quote
    If dog never dies then you just destroy one of the best WD build...
    Reply Quote
    My WD pets can tank better than any barb out there.

    Being swarmed by mobs doesn't even bring them below 90% of their total health.

    The only time they die is when they are when: Swarmed by mobs + Standing on 2+ Desectrator pools + (add 1 more affix here) all at the same time to die.

    IF no desecrator affix on elites, not even triple packs with Plaugue + Fire Chains + Lighting, etc can kill them =D
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    06/14/2013 01:08 AMPosted by ZOMGWTFBBQ
    If dog never dies then you just destroy one of the best WD build...

    If you didn't read, just don't post anything, where did I said that dogs never die?

    06/14/2013 01:13 AMPosted by FireZombie
    My WD pets can tank better than any barb out there.

    If my barb is swarmed by mobs, I can stand on 3 molten + 3 plague pools... how are your dogs better than barbs?

    btw elite affixes deal less damage to pets and follower, I think the damage is reduced to 10-15% of the damage dealt to you. Just to help you survive.
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    06/14/2013 03:30 AMPosted by KirusAlufras
    If dog never dies then you just destroy one of the best WD build...

    If you didn't read, just don't post anything, where did I said that dogs never die?


    You didn't. You said you want them to never die, in the title of this thread.
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    06/14/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Zen

    If you didn't read, just don't post anything, where did I said that dogs never die?


    You didn't. You said you want them to never die, in the title of this thread.


    Actually the title says 120s CD pets should never die. Dogs are not 120s CD pets.
    Reply Quote
    I agree OP.

    Here's my conjecture of the day: these 2-minute cooldown skills would be great if we could use 10 or 15 or more active skills. Who wouldn't have Fetish Army on their bar and use it every 2 minutes for 3-8 seconds of god mode?

    But the reality is that we are limited to 6 skills. I don't think this is a bad thing: it mathematically allows for more build diversity. But the skills need to be balanced around a 6-skill system, which they aren't.

    So yes, make those little buggers invincible, and double their damage while we're at it.
    Reply Quote
    Every pet skill/rune in this game needs to be buffed whether it has a cd or not honestly. With the exception of sacrifice, all pet related skills in this game are lackluster. Even after they buffed sentries/companions for DH.

    Monk allies may have no cd, but you still don't see very many people using them. An ability needs to bring something pretty useful for most people to be willing to give up one of their limited slots for it (which is another thing working against long CD abilities, especially if you have no way to reset them faster). D2's skill system was much more fitting for any kind of pet related specs.

    Also, only being able to summon one hydra at a time is blasphemous and shameful. It should be 4-5 at least!
    Reply Quote
    yeah but in D2 "pets" had actually a use. I mean a real use. Not like in D3.

    I mean ancients anyone? Worst skill ever ... they are not really "pets" in that sense, but still.
    Reply Quote
    I stopped reading when you made it sound like Monk Pets are the best Pet spell.

    In reality? They are trash.
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    I stopped reading when you made it sound like Monk Pets are the best Pet spell.

    In reality? They are trash.


    If that is what you are reading, I can't help it. IMO Mystic Ally are good, but they are not the best, and if you are a monk you can use Mantra and Sweeping Wind which makes Ally completely useless. Who wouldn't want a 60% damage aoe at all time.

    If Ally are trash, then all the other pets in this game are worst than trash...

    Blizz made the durability of Wolf Companion = 1 Zombie Dog, by comparison this does not make sense.
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    06/14/2013 12:55 AMPosted by BigL
    i have always wished hydra was a permanant summon. I would find it considerably more useful had that been the case.


    I would blame the strategy promoted as "doubled it" at the launch of the game. There was no consideration given to allowing the player to compensate for the increased difficulty. Instead players had to kite certain "doubled it" mobs off to a corner and out of the way in order to complete gameplay progression.

    The game has suffered since then because of that original design decision.
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    Skills are not under used by players, they are under used by the designers. These kind of problems would not have existed if the staff team have tested each skill and their possibilities and potentials in different scenarios. Why give players a choice that will be removed after a few attempts. I'm pretty sure the team designed every skill and rune so there are massive numbers of build for players to choice from, but why am I not seeing them.


    You do realize that there are trillions of different possible combinations. Add in the situations and you would have so many combination it would take millions of players to learn that. Heck one player along might take millions of years just to test all of the possibilities of one class only. If you think that one man can live that long then go ahead and knock yourself out.
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    06/14/2013 08:34 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
    Skills are not under used by players, they are under used by the designers. These kind of problems would not have existed if the staff team have tested each skill and their possibilities and potentials in different scenarios. Why give players a choice that will be removed after a few attempts. I'm pretty sure the team designed every skill and rune so there are massive numbers of build for players to choice from, but why am I not seeing them.


    You do realize that there are trillions of different possible combinations. Add in the situations and you would have so many combination it would take millions of players to learn that. Heck one player along might take millions of years just to test all of the possibilities of one class only. If you think that one man can live that long then go ahead and knock yourself out.


    Just because I can mix pancakes with a cow pie, doesn't mean it works.
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    Better idea...

    Get rid of cooldowns. Let our resource pools be the limiting factor of how often we can cast something. owate... that would be "fun".
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    You do realize that there are trillions of different possible combinations. Add in the situations and you would have so many combination it would take millions of players to learn that. Heck one player along might take millions of years just to test all of the possibilities of one class only. If you think that one man can live that long then go ahead and knock yourself out.


    Just because I can mix pancakes with a cow pie, doesn't mean it works.


    Now that underlined portion could explain what I was commenting on. Also there are a lot of players that are more concerned about using the most efficient build for farming and moving at the fastest possible speed. That is why some players just do not see the choices in D3. Heck with a barbarian I have played using different builds. All of the themed builds I have tried are fun to play. They are as follows; Ancient Crawler (slow CC build), Indiana Jones, Shaker (Earthquake/Seismic Slam), and my current Bloodthirst build.
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    Sentry can't crit, single target, can't deploy from a distance, has cd so not really efficient in a fast pace game play.
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    06/15/2013 06:54 AMPosted by AnhHa
    Sentry can't crit, single target, can't deploy from a distance, has cd so not really efficient in a fast pace game play.


    Sentry are great, are not most attack "single target"? Sentry can become multi target is you use the right rune. The cd is used to compensate for the extra gun, how is that a problem?
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