Diablo® III

Self-found league

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Give players recognition for self-found status. That is all
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I believe Congressman Daywalk3r campaigned on this very issue.
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06/14/2013 01:29 PMPosted by TheFunGun21
Give players recognition for self-found status. That is all


NO
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I think we should go the other way and give players a giant dollar sign over their head if they use the auction house. ;)
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Why?

I'm all in favor of self-found play but everyone has their own opinions on the matter.
- Can you use previously crafted gems?
- Can you craft with previously earned gold?
- Can you used existing crafting plans that have already been learned?
- Can you even craft?
- Are you allowed to pass down gear from self-found character to another self-found character?
- Can you still sell items on the AH and use those funds to craft?
- Are HF rings ever permitted or are they to much of a cheat?
- Can you play co-op? If so, do you have to play with other self-found players?

Not all self-found players have the same answers to these questions.
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Why?

I'm all in favor of self-found play but everyone has their own opinions on the matter.
- Can you use previously crafted gems?
- Can you craft with previously earned gold?
- Can you used existing crafting plans that have already been learned?
- Can you even craft?
- Are you allowed to pass down gear from self-found character to another self-found character?
- Can you still sell items on the AH and use those funds to craft?
- Are HF rings ever permitted or are they to much of a cheat?
- Can you play co-op? If so, do you have to play with other self-found players?

Not all self-found players have the same answers to these questions.


Yes, plus just why? I play self found and don't feel the need for a league. Why does it matter?
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Blizzard has better things to worry about.
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EDIT: double posted.
Edited by Taganov#1343 on 6/15/2013 10:03 AM PDT
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I wouldn't mind having my artisans, stash and gold reset whenever I start a new character...

But getting recognition from it? Pfft! Who the hell cares?
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06/14/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Tuinebap
NO


YES.

More choices make a fun game. Simplicity makes boring games.
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Posted by TheFunGun21
Give players recognition for self-found status. That is all

NO
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06/14/2013 01:29 PMPosted by TheFunGun21
Give players recognition for self-found status. That is all


I think you have a very good idea. It'd be interesting to see if such a thing could be implemented.

Make some kind of separate ladder that tosses out and gives the royal boot to anyone who uses the AHs or even trades for gear. In my view that would not only be the best idea, but also the best of the best ideas Blizz has ever made since launch.
Edited by RockSalt#1639 on 6/14/2013 2:44 PM PDT
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06/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Garthandal
You can not have a self found character, it must be a self found account through all characters. Only then will you be recognized as a true hero. May the cats be with you.

Only items dropped by that character can be used on said character.
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Posts: 128
90% of people who say their self found are full of crap. They either used the AH at some point, traded with somebody, used gold they bought or were just given something from a friend. There's no way you can fully gear a character with high end stuff that all dropped for you. As we all know 99.9% of everything that drops is total crap. and 99.9% of the good stuff that drops is either pretty crappy or something that your class/build can't really use.
Edited by Omrakos on 6/14/2013 6:22 PM PDT
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66 Gnome Rogue
935
Posts: 1,162
That would be a bit divisive among the players (self-found vs cash-found).

So I hope that such a league is never created officially...and no, I am not a cash found player.
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06/14/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Fantomex
I think we should go the other way and give players a giant dollar sign over their head if they use the auction house. ;)


not only this, we had ideas before about such status!

when they walk we should hear gold in pocket sound, also they should drop 1 pice of gold while walking.
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you just like saying your self found because you think it makes you better than everybody else. Its pathetic.

Maybe some, but I only talk about my self-found monk where it applies. Is there something wrong with wanting to find your own gear? It isn't about having the best stuff in the game for some people, so the idea of how long it can take to gear up for higher content isn't as daunting. When I geared my other characters up using the auction house, I didn't feel very rewarding. Each purchase sort of felt cheap to me, like I was bypassing the whole game.

I remember my first purchase. I was level 57 or so and stuck in act 2 hell on my Demon Hunter. I was down on my luck for DPS so progressing as getting difficult. I gave up on hunting for a new weapon and just bought one off the auction house. I felt kind of bad, but was able to finally make progress.
Edited by Omrakos on 6/14/2013 6:23 PM PDT
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Community Manager
Posts: 3,079
I think both opinions are valid here ("yes, support self-found mode" and "no, don't support self-found mode"), so I encourage you to keep the debate active. It's a good one, and I love getting to hear from each side of the fence -- specifically on why you feel the way you do.

Before this discussion gets too far, though, I did want to bring your attention to the following discussions that Wyatt and Travis had with Archon earlier on this very topic. You can find the full chat here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/9773964/developer-live-stream-interview-w-archon-the-wizard-5-23-2013

What are the chances of us seeing a self-found mode sometime in the future?

Wyatt: That's a good question. I am playing self-found hardcore myself right now; I may take a short break from it to level Paragon this week. We think that it's a fun way to play for some people, but not everyone likes playing that way.

So I think, obviously people can play self-found kind of right now. I think the main challenge is that it would be nice to have a little bit of recognition for it, some sort of indication and validation from the server that your character is self-found. But we also don't want to do it in a way that complicates the UI. I know that our solution to this in the past has always been a little bit inelegant when we introduce things with checkbox options. People complain a lot about Elective Mode, that's a big one, or Advanced Tool Tips, or most recently Monster Power. We've sort of used options as a little bit of a crutch, to hide things from beginners, while still allowing expert players access to these things that we really want. On the character creation screen, do we really want to put another self-found checkbox on the front? I guess, maybe. To make a long story short: I think self-found is pretty cool, but we don't want it to get in the way of people who aren't interested in it. I know we use non-committal language a lot; because design is super-iterative. So it is a matter of trying some stuff out, and we like some stuff, and we don't like others, and we hate promising things only to try it internally and realize we're not happy with it. So, again, lots of non-committal disclaimers.

We've talked about maybe marking your character automatically as having been self-found until you trade. So the moment you equip something that you didn't find yourself -- maybe if I just pull up your battle.net page, then on the web page it says this character has used the Auction House, or hasn't used the Auction House. So that's definitely a soft way to maybe do something like that. The other challenge for me when I play self-found is my gold. I hate having to remember how much gold I had, to not go below the amount I started at. That's kind of annoying, it would be nice if the game just said, "This is how much gold this character has". Then if I wanted, I could opt in to having shared gold with the rest of my account. I consider it great that my gold is shared across my account, most of the time. It saves me from having to transfer gold between all my characters, which is why we did it. But it definitely does make self-found a little bit of a pain. So maybe a little option, or something. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of options, I think it complicates the UI. But I like self-found, so if we can do something to help support and promote it, that would be great.


Any thoughts on self-found mode?

Travis: Wyatt's a big fan of self-found mode, we debate that internally. Not the validity of self-found style, but whether or not we try to support that as a gameplay style. Because at some point, yeah it's cool, but at the same time we don't need to support every style of behavior that emerges in the game, as a full playstyle within the game. We don't need hardcore, softcore, self-found, XYZ because someone liked them. I will say, I think people find self-found to be so enjoyable because honestly, the game is more fun when you pull the Auction House out of the equation. When you feel like the things that you have on your character are something you can be proud of, and not just something everyone assumes you purchased, I think you have a better sense of accomplishment. So I think there is a really strong psychological draw to self-found. I've thought about doing it before, because yeah, I can buy anything I want, my characters are Paragon 60, 70-something, I forget. But there is something really compelling about the idea of just finding things on my own. Especially because it just gets back to the heart of what made D2 items fun. You got excited when you found things on the ground, and that doesn't really happen anymore.

Generally the Auction House, or the items your friends give you, whatever the case: whatever the items you're getting, usually they're coming from somewhere else, and they're usually so powerful that you know everything you ever find is going to be bad by comparison. That really does take away a lot from the gameplay experience, instead it puts the focus on the xp bar moving up which is great, but that's a very rhythmic sort of thing. It's not like sometimes your xp bar decides it's going to give you three levels, for no reason, and you get really excited! Your xp bar just sort of slowly moves along, and you make progress. But finding the cool item or the good legendary is what really mixes up your gameplay experience. I think that's really important, and I think for a lot of players that's lost. I won't say all because a lot of players don't use the Auction House, a lot of players play the game through story mode and then they're done, they play it like any console game. That's fine, too. But what's important to us is that you have fun. That's something that players want something from our game that we're not currently delivering, for some of them. And they try to find their own fun. So I think there's something there that we've talked about and it comes up a lot, and we may pursue something like that one day, it's hard to say. But it's totally a legitimate play style, and it's cool, and I think anyone who hasn't tried it should give it a whirl and make a guy and commit to: I'm only going to wear things I find on my own, and see how they feel.

I think you should try it.

Travis: I've considered it as well.

Since I've tried it, it's pretty much the only way I play right now. For right now I think the game works better in self-found, but it sounds maybe like your theory is, we can address those issues and maybe not have the need for so many players to play self-found?

Travis: I guess what I'm getting at is, I think self-found is very cool. I personally feel like the game does feel better when... TLDR: the heart of the issue is that people who play self-found, what they're really doing is saying to themselves, "I want the reward game to matter, I want to get excited about things I find on the ground." We would say yes - we want the game to always to feel like that for everybody, right now it doesn't and it needs work. What that ends up meaning I can't say, I don't know, we're still working it all out. But what players are doing when they opt into self-found, is basically they're playing the game the way they want the game to be played. They want that to be the right way to play, you want to get excited about finding items, and we want you to. But right now the Auction House sort of sets the bar for what a good item is so high, that 99% of players will never find something better than what they bought for 100,000 gold on the Auction House. That becomes a crappy feeling, so I'm saying I want to get the self-found feeling for everyone, ultimately. And I don't know what that means, I don't know how we do that, necessarily. We want items to feel exciting, we want you to get excited about loot on the ground. That's why I'm putting a lot of my time, trying to think of legendary things that are mind-blowingly awesome, because we want you to have those things in the game. It's just gonna take time.

I agree with you, that it would be better if everyone got the reward that you get from playing self-found without having to add a new sector of the game so to speak. I would probably switch back to playing regularly if I did feel like I was earning most of my gear, and to improve most I would have to find it myself.


Transcript courtesy of Diablo Somepage: http://diablo.somepage.com/news/1555-candid-chats-with-wyatt-cheng-and-travis-day
Edited by Lylirra on 6/14/2013 3:51 PM PDT
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