Diablo® III

Self-found league

Wow, can't believe this thread is still going. 25 pages of people repeating each others comments. Once again, the minority screams the loudest and will get what they want.

Seems like every time 20-30 people make multiple threads and multiple posts about the same topic and beat it to the ground, the devs take note and think it's the majority consensus and act on their whims. Enter the Inferno nerf, blazing guardian nerf, APOC nerf, CM nerf, WOTB nerf and every other game ruining change that's been or soon to be implemented after release.

I guess it won't be long before everyone has to reroll - yet again just to play self-found - yet again and get the cheesy star on their name so people can't tell them their views are worthless because, until they've played self-found, they haven't really played the game yet.

Ugh!!
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06/18/2013 09:08 AMPosted by Aimless
IF you can seriously play this game all over again just for a damn "self-found league", then I PITY you...


try it sometime its pretty fun adn totally changes your outlook on items. brims become BiS weapons yellows and even blues worth picking up again - the grind fun again


No THANK YOU!

Im much happier playing POE! :)))))
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I don't get it. It's not adding a whole sector to the game.

It's adding a freaking check box to when you make a new character.

If you don't like it, it will affect you for roughly 3 seconds as you make a new character.

If it does, you get everything you want.

Really don't see the problem here...
Edited by Dolla#1443 on 6/26/2013 12:13 PM PDT
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06/19/2013 02:25 PMPosted by BlayneRTFM
Once again, the minority screams the loudest and will get what they want.

Welcome to the internet and life in general
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It's sad that this thread will soon max out. TY OP for creating it.
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Posts: 2,162
View profile
Why is this still going?
How is this an issue?
Self-found literally means NOTHING.
If it gives you some pretend feeling
in your head, then just put on items
only you've found.
Other people, who want to succeed,
will trade, buy and sell their items.
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90 Undead Priest
6990
Posts: 616
Not gonna read over the thread as I'm just stopping by to mention my opinion.

I like the idea of self-found for one simple reason:

All of those so-called superior players can stop ratting on my gear just because I don't play the auction house hours a day. I don't want achievements, a feeling a smug superiority, or anything else.

To be entirely honest, all I want is a tiny little badge at the corner of my portrait that says "no, I don't spend my life savings on the GAH and/or spend hours a day playing the RMAH. I play just to play. I play to have fun. So no, my gear may not be as great as yours. No, even though I've played since release day I don't have a thousand hours logged on each character. But that doesn't make my play style less valid than yours, nor my opinion."

The only people who could possibly be hurt by this are the people who lord it over others that their gear is superior- and let's be honest, they could use a reality check. Similarly, the only people who don't want this added would necessarily fall into the same category. It could only possibly effect anyone negatively if it would take something away from them. The only thing that could be taken away is a small slice of their feelings of superiority.

As far as implementation, that's easy. Everyone starts out in self-found mode. Whenever you're going to do something that would 'break' self-found mode (until after you've done it), you get a "are you sure you want to do this?" dialogue, with a link for more info. Easy as that, no checkboxes, no clutter, no one harmed. After you've 'broken' out of self-found mode, you never see it mentioned again.

Edit: Sorry, posted under my old WoW account. I'm Drake#1129 if anyone needs to rat on my gear, etc.
Edited by Drake#1129 on 7/6/2013 2:17 PM PDT
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self-found, prease =]
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You can play self found already. Why do you need a badge?

TBH, I just want itemization fixed, and character customization addressed. I'd rather have the devs focusing on those 2 core flaws of the game instead of debating on this sf nonsense.
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Silly thread that makes little sense.
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You can play self found already. Why do you need a badge?

TBH, I just want itemization fixed, and character customization addressed. I'd rather have the devs focusing on those 2 core flaws of the game instead of debating on this sf nonsense.
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You can play self found already. Why do you need a badge?

TBH, I just want itemization fixed, and character customization addressed. I'd rather have the devs focusing on those 2 core flaws of the game instead of debating on this sf nonsense.


^^^^^^^^ THIS
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Here is a different retort about the whole SF fiasco.

It is like gay marriage. The gay people has all the right to be gay. They are free to come out whenever they want and they would be accepted. Nobody should give them grief about it, and that is what everybody agrees upon.

It only became a problem when the gays tried to legitimize the whole thing and make gay marriage official. Surely it didn't sink quite well and it is still one of the most debated topic in the world today. Why wouldn't it be? The gays are trying to change the rule and a lot of people aren't ready for such change.

So, Self-Found mode.

Players has all the right to play SF. They are free to do it whenever they want. They can play it AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

It only becomes a problem when they started to DEMAND for it to be official. They want to change the rule of the game. Because if SF becomes legitimate, only then they would feel that their SF play has meaning.

So the counter-argument is like this: "You can already play SF. Just don't use AH! Why are you forcing this to the 90% of the players who enjoys trading? Why are you petitioning this to the developers and make it official?"

Ego.

The SF whiners COULD NOT stand it that they are the minority. They wan't to feed their ego. They want a legitimate way to show off. Because if it becomes official, they would feel that they could finally afford the operation to enlarge their genitalia. They can finally wear a badge of honor (or what they think a badge of honor) that will separate them from the rest.

Let us face it, SF players. You aren't playing SF for the love of self-found. You are doing it because of your misplaced sense of superiority. Because after all, SF IS available today. So just play it like how you want it. But why the need to force Blizzard to cater your special need?

Blizzard doesn't have to change every single thing just to please someone. Just like in the real world. The government won't change something just because Joe Toothpick want's something different and demands for it.

So to Blizzard, please DON"T support SF. Because the game is fun the way it is. Sure it needs some fixing, but I don't think I need to tell you how many players are logged in everyday to grind. By making a special case about SF, you are opening the gates for more demands. Pretty soon, a guy who likes to play the game without any armor WILL demand a mode for it. You don't have to be bullied by the minority (or so called elitists) that demands something else.
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The auction house and crappy drops is the problem........trading item for item is fun; because you still have to find good stuff.

Right now 500,000 will buy youa better item than you can probably ever find, not help by half the affixes being totally useless.
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I think both opinions are valid here ("yes, support self-found mode" and "no, don't support self-found mode"), so I encourage you to keep the debate active. It's a good one, and I love getting to hear from each side of the fence -- specifically on why you feel the way you do.

Before this discussion gets too far, though, I did want to bring your attention to the following discussions that Wyatt and Travis had with Archon earlier on this very topic. You can find the full chat here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/9773964/developer-live-stream-interview-w-archon-the-wizard-5-23-2013

What are the chances of us seeing a self-found mode sometime in the future?

Wyatt: That's a good question. I am playing self-found hardcore myself right now; I may take a short break from it to level Paragon this week. We think that it's a fun way to play for some people, but not everyone likes playing that way.

So I think, obviously people can play self-found kind of right now. I think the main challenge is that it would be nice to have a little bit of recognition for it, some sort of indication and validation from the server that your character is self-found. But we also don't want to do it in a way that complicates the UI. I know that our solution to this in the past has always been a little bit inelegant when we introduce things with checkbox options. People complain a lot about Elective Mode, that's a big one, or Advanced Tool Tips, or most recently Monster Power. We've sort of used options as a little bit of a crutch, to hide things from beginners, while still allowing expert players access to these things that we really want. On the character creation screen, do we really want to put another self-found checkbox on the front? I guess, maybe. To make a long story short: I think self-found is pretty cool, but we don't want it to get in the way of people who aren't interested in it. I know we use non-committal language a lot; because design is super-iterative. So it is a matter of trying some stuff out, and we like some stuff, and we don't like others, and we hate promising things only to try it internally and realize we're not happy with it. So, again, lots of non-committal disclaimers.

We've talked about maybe marking your character automatically as having been self-found until you trade. So the moment you equip something that you didn't find yourself -- maybe if I just pull up your battle.net page, then on the web page it says this character has used the Auction House, or hasn't used the Auction House. So that's definitely a soft way to maybe do something like that. The other challenge for me when I play self-found is my gold. I hate having to remember how much gold I had, to not go below the amount I started at. That's kind of annoying, it would be nice if the game just said, "This is how much gold this character has". Then if I wanted, I could opt in to having shared gold with the rest of my account. I consider it great that my gold is shared across my account, most of the time. It saves me from having to transfer gold between all my characters, which is why we did it. But it definitely does make self-found a little bit of a pain. So maybe a little option, or something. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of options, I think it complicates the UI. But I like self-found, so if we can do something to help support and promote it, that would be great.


Any thoughts on self-found mode?

Travis: Wyatt's a big fan of self-found mode, we debate that internally. Not the validity of self-found style, but whether or not we try to support that as a gameplay style. Because at some point, yeah it's cool, but at the same time we don't need to support every style of behavior that emerges in the game, as a full playstyle within the game. We don't need hardcore, softcore, self-found, XYZ because someone liked them. I will say, I think people find self-found to be so enjoyable because honestly, the game is more fun when you pull the Auction House out of the equation. When you feel like the things that you have on your character are something you can be proud of, and not just something everyone assumes you purchased, I think you have a better sense of accomplishment. So I think there is a really strong psychological draw to self-found. I've thought about doing it before, because yeah, I can buy anything I want, my characters are Paragon 60, 70-something, I forget. But there is something really compelling about the idea of just finding things on my own. Especially because it just gets back to the heart of what made D2 items fun. You got excited when you found things on the ground, and that doesn't really happen anymore.

Generally the Auction House, or the items your friends give you, whatever the case: whatever the items you're getting, usually they're coming from somewhere else, and they're usually so powerful that you know everything you ever find is going to be bad by comparison. That really does take away a lot from the gameplay experience, instead it puts the focus on the xp bar moving up which is great, but that's a very rhythmic sort of thing. It's not like sometimes your xp bar decides it's going to give you three levels, for no reason, and you get really excited! Your xp bar just sort of slowly moves along, and you make progress. But finding the cool item or the good legendary is what really mixes up your gameplay experience. I think that's really important, and I think for a lot of players that's lost. I won't say all because a lot of players don't use the Auction House, a lot of players play the game through story mode and then they're done, they play it like any console game. That's fine, too. But what's important to us is that you have fun. That's something that players want something from our game that we're not currently delivering, for some of them. And they try to find their own fun. So I think there's something there that we've talked about and it comes up a lot, and we may pursue something like that one day, it's hard to say. But it's totally a legitimate play style, and it's cool, and I think anyone who hasn't tried it should give it a whirl and make a guy and commit to: I'm only going to wear things I find on my own, and see how they feel.

I think you should try it.

Travis: I've considered it as well.

Since I've tried it, it's pretty much the only way I play right now. For right now I think the game works better in self-found, but it sounds maybe like your theory is, we can address those issues and maybe not have the need for so many players to play self-found?

Travis: I guess what I'm getting at is, I think self-found is very cool. I personally feel like the game does feel better when... TLDR: the heart of the issue is that people who play self-found, what they're really doing is saying to themselves, "I want the reward game to matter, I want to get excited about things I find on the ground." We would say yes - we want the game to always to feel like that for everybody, right now it doesn't and it needs work. What that ends up meaning I can't say, I don't know, we're still working it all out. But what players are doing when they opt into self-found, is basically they're playing the game the way they want the game to be played. They want that to be the right way to play, you want to get excited about finding items, and we want you to. But right now the Auction House sort of sets the bar for what a good item is so high, that 99% of players will never find something better than what they bought for 100,000 gold on the Auction House. That becomes a crappy feeling, so I'm saying I want to get the self-found feeling for everyone, ultimately. And I don't know what that means, I don't know how we do that, necessarily. We want items to feel exciting, we want you to get excited about loot on the ground. That's why I'm putting a lot of my time, trying to think of legendary things that are mind-blowingly awesome, because we want you to have those things in the game. It's just gonna take time.

I agree with you, that it would be better if everyone got the reward that you get from playing self-found without having to add a new sector of the game so to speak. I would probably switch back to playing regularly if I did feel like I was earning most of my gear, and to improve most I would have to find it myself.


Transcript courtesy of Diablo Somepage: http://diablo.somepage.com/news/1555-candid-chats-with-wyatt-cheng-and-travis-day


I and others have done our utmost to impress upon you the value that a separate and optional SFcore Mode of play would offer the community and especially the players who have left.

Our SF tenants in a basic form are: no trading, no dropping items for others, no Auction Houses, and providing an environment where all players are under the same exact ruleset and thus could be played with in public SF games.

A full SF Mode that could be adopted by Blizzard:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9309641216
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To add what others have said, giving a flag/title/halo/whatever to SF characters is only part of what matters to me. For the game mode to be fulfilling, it must also

- Allow me to only match me with other SF players
- Give me extra character slots so I can play both regular and SF
- Separate the stash so that I know which gems I found and which gems I traded without keeping a ledger.
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remove the auction house problem solved
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I think both opinions are valid here ("yes, support self-found mode" and "no, don't support self-found mode"), so I encourage you to keep the debate active. It's a good one, and I love getting to hear from each side of the fence -- specifically on why you feel the way you do.

Before this discussion gets too far, though, I did want to bring your attention to the following discussions that Wyatt and Travis had with Archon earlier on this very topic. You can find the full chat here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/9773964/developer-live-stream-interview-w-archon-the-wizard-5-23-2013

What are the chances of us seeing a self-found mode sometime in the future?

Wyatt: That's a good question. I am playing self-found hardcore myself right now; I may take a short break from it to level Paragon this week. We think that it's a fun way to play for some people, but not everyone likes playing that way.

So I think, obviously people can play self-found kind of right now. I think the main challenge is that it would be nice to have a little bit of recognition for it, some sort of indication and validation from the server that your character is self-found. But we also don't want to do it in a way that complicates the UI. I know that our solution to this in the past has always been a little bit inelegant when we introduce things with checkbox options. People complain a lot about Elective Mode, that's a big one, or Advanced Tool Tips, or most recently Monster Power. We've sort of used options as a little bit of a crutch, to hide things from beginners, while still allowing expert players access to these things that we really want. On the character creation screen, do we really want to put another self-found checkbox on the front? I guess, maybe. To make a long story short: I think self-found is pretty cool, but we don't want it to get in the way of people who aren't interested in it. I know we use non-committal language a lot; because design is super-iterative. So it is a matter of trying some stuff out, and we like some stuff, and we don't like others, and we hate promising things only to try it internally and realize we're not happy with it. So, again, lots of non-committal disclaimers.

We've talked about maybe marking your character automatically as having been self-found until you trade. So the moment you equip something that you didn't find yourself -- maybe if I just pull up your battle.net page, then on the web page it says this character has used the Auction House, or hasn't used the Auction House. So that's definitely a soft way to maybe do something like that. The other challenge for me when I play self-found is my gold. I hate having to remember how much gold I had, to not go below the amount I started at. That's kind of annoying, it would be nice if the game just said, "This is how much gold this character has". Then if I wanted, I could opt in to having shared gold with the rest of my account. I consider it great that my gold is shared across my account, most of the time. It saves me from having to transfer gold between all my characters, which is why we did it. But it definitely does make self-found a little bit of a pain. So maybe a little option, or something. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of options, I think it complicates the UI. But I like self-found, so if we can do something to help support and promote it, that would be great.


Any thoughts on self-found mode?

Travis: Wyatt's a big fan of self-found mode, we debate that internally. Not the validity of self-found style, but whether or not we try to support that as a gameplay style. Because at some point, yeah it's cool, but at the same time we don't need to support every style of behavior that emerges in the game, as a full playstyle within the game. We don't need hardcore, softcore, self-found, XYZ because someone liked them. I will say, I think people find self-found to be so enjoyable because honestly, the game is more fun when you pull the Auction House out of the equation. When you feel like the things that you have on your character are something you can be proud of, and not just something everyone assumes you purchased, I think you have a better sense of accomplishment. So I think there is a really strong psychological draw to self-found. I've thought about doing it before, because yeah, I can buy anything I want, my characters are Paragon 60, 70-something, I forget. But there is something really compelling about the idea of just finding things on my own. Especially because it just gets back to the heart of what made D2 items fun. You got excited when you found things on the ground, and that doesn't really happen anymore.

Generally the Auction House, or the items your friends give you, whatever the case: whatever the items you're getting, usually they're coming from somewhere else, and they're usually so powerful that you know everything you ever find is going to be bad by comparison. That really does take away a lot from the gameplay experience, instead it puts the focus on the xp bar moving up which is great, but that's a very rhythmic sort of thing. It's not like sometimes your xp bar decides it's going to give you three levels, for no reason, and you get really excited! Your xp bar just sort of slowly moves along, and you make progress. But finding the cool item or the good legendary is what really mixes up your gameplay experience. I think that's really important, and I think for a lot of players that's lost. I won't say all because a lot of players don't use the Auction House, a lot of players play the game through story mode and then they're done, they play it like any console game. That's fine, too. But what's important to us is that you have fun. That's something that players want something from our game that we're not currently delivering, for some of them. And they try to find their own fun. So I think there's something there that we've talked about and it comes up a lot, and we may pursue something like that one day, it's hard to say. But it's totally a legitimate play style, and it's cool, and I think anyone who hasn't tried it should give it a whirl and make a guy and commit to: I'm only going to wear things I find on my own, and see how they feel.

I think you should try it.

Travis: I've considered it as well.

Since I've tried it, it's pretty much the only way I play right now. For right now I think the game works better in self-found, but it sounds maybe like your theory is, we can address those issues and maybe not have the need for so many players to play self-found?

Travis: I guess what I'm getting at is, I think self-found is very cool. I personally feel like the game does feel better when... TLDR: the heart of the issue is that people who play self-found, what they're really doing is saying to themselves, "I want the reward game to matter, I want to get excited about things I find on the ground." We would say yes - we want the game to always to feel like that for everybody, right now it doesn't and it needs work. What that ends up meaning I can't say, I don't know, we're still working it all out. But what players are doing when they opt into self-found, is basically they're playing the game the way they want the game to be played. They want that to be the right way to play, you want to get excited about finding items, and we want you to. But right now the Auction House sort of sets the bar for what a good item is so high, that 99% of players will never find something better than what they bought for 100,000 gold on the Auction House. That becomes a crappy feeling, so I'm saying I want to get the self-found feeling for everyone, ultimately. And I don't know what that means, I don't know how we do that, necessarily. We want items to feel exciting, we want you to get excited about loot on the ground. That's why I'm putting a lot of my time, trying to think of legendary things that are mind-blowingly awesome, because we want you to have those things in the game. It's just gonna take time.

I agree with you, that it would be better if everyone got the reward that you get from playing self-found without having to add a new sector of the game so to speak. I would probably switch back to playing regularly if I did feel like I was earning most of my gear, and to improve most I would have to find it myself.


Transcript courtesy of Diablo Somepage: http://diablo.somepage.com/news/1555-candid-chats-with-wyatt-cheng-and-travis-day


What he means is, he loves listening to grown men heckle like a bunch of hens. So carry on, feud like the Hatfields and McCoys. It's entertaining.

But no, an SF mode will never be created because of this. Never.
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I recognize people's ridiculous awesome bind on account crafts. i'll count it, for now.
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