Diablo® III

Self-found league

I just want to be able to easily compartmentalize my characters in my account. I could care less about the AH and the interactions with other players because I'm a solo self-character-found player. I don't want recognition, I don't want to segregate from AH players (because I'm basically segregated from everyone as a solo player).

But, I am finding it harder and harder to use the UI of the game to play the way I want.

I don't want to share gold among my characters. I don't want to share a stash. I don't want to share crafting materials. I don't want to buff any item drop rates from what they currently are.

But, gold, stash, and crafting materials are automatically shared. Even more annoyingly - you used to bring your crafting materials to the craftsman in your inventory and so you could compartmentalize your crafting that way, but with the recent change to craft-from-stash - that part is even harder still now. (I understand that it adds consistency with the way gold was handled, but now I have to manually track crafting supplies as well as gold - and I never wanted the gold shared in the first place).

Currently the UI already supports separation between SC and HC characters in a given account for many of the above mechanisms, I'd like to have an option to separate it further for each character in SC and HC. Then I can character-self-found my own characters and leave the arguments over separate shared games/leagues/ladders and profile indicators to those who are non-solo-account-self-found players.

On the other side of the coin, I also would like the option to (once per character) convert from compartmentalized to shared. I level my characters all the way through Inferno as solo-self-character-found, and at that point then I let them share within the account as a "graduation gift".

Here is my vision of a "character private" mechanism...

When creating a character you click a checkbox to indicate private resources. The following changes are made:

- The character has its own gold account
- The character has its own stash (which might be cheaper to expand?)
- The character has its own craftsmen (which might be cheaper to train?)

- I think the option to isolate the AH would be separate from this concept, and I personally just ignore the AH right now except that I occasionally sell a legendary that I think someone else would want and leave the gold in my AH account, untouched.

The character can be converted back to account-shared and the following would happen:

- gold would be deposited into shared account
- stash would empty onto ground around the chest and the private stash would be destroyed and replaced by the shared stash (or we could force the character to put everything in their inventory that they don't want to lose?)
- craftsmen would disappear and be replaced by shared craftsmen
- shared stash and craftsmen would have to be separately leveled by the shared characters, they don't inherit stash pages or crafting levels from any private character

With respect to the leveling of the private stash and/or craftsmen:

- It might make sense to have cheaper stash/craft leveling for the private character since they can't share the financial burden? Or not? I actually don't have a strong opinion there.
- If it is cheaper to level a private stash or craftsman then those levels should not transfer to the shared account equivalents (when the character is turned into "account-shared")
- If it is not cheaper to level private stash/crafstmen then some transfer might make sense.

I wouldn't mind a way to be able to occasionally share an item or some gold from a private character to the shared account, or maybe in reverse at the whim of the player, but not at the cost of having everything shared in a single set of resources.

This is all about "ease of accounting" for a particular playing style (closely related to self-found) that I believe others are also using - it's not about different game play or "rules". Some blend of character-private with account sharing would work fine as long as it was easy for a player to ignore the account sharing for a given character until they decide otherwise. Currently there is no way to opt out of any sharing of stash and craftsmen, and it is possible to manually track gold and crafting supplies to keep them private, but that is really annoying to do. Note that the AH is an example of sharing that can be ignored - you just don't click on it - but gold and stash sharing is not something you can "simply ignore" right now.
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With respect to disallowing AH use for a self-found player, I wouldn't want the AH to be completely inaccessible. Right now I am self-found, but I do sell things of value on the AH, and do not keep the gold. I don't want someone else who wants the option to buy a very rare item to miss out just because I don't buy things on the AH, or use it to pad my gold account.

(Note that if there is any buff to the drop rates for self-found characters then I see the dilemma and I think it makes sense that the AH should be inaccessible to avoid inflating the economy there, but I'm also against buffing drop rates for self-found in the first place.)

I mentioned before having a "donate" option on the AH. You could sell an item and have the proceeds donated to charity (if you sell it on GAH, then the donations would bank until enough was there to sell on the RMAH and the proceeds of that sale would go to charity).

If they added this donation option then I could see "self-found" only having access to AH on a "donation" basis (and only if there are no buffed drop rates for self-found). If there was no "charity mode", then I still think it makes sense to allow some form of restricted sales for self-found characters (if drop rates are standard), but it would be nice to be able to vector the gold somewhere other than the self-found gold account.
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if they take the lazy way out and use only "shiny recognition status" you can be 100% assured games will be full of loser griefers dropping unids all over place, making self-found players lose their status.
its really not far fetched, just look at hc griefing with town aggro pk


Not far fetched, that is so true. Maybe they could do it in a way that lets those chars only see their own drops and nothing else. I like the fresh economy part of a general ladder, but not much more that would come with it. This status would have enabled me to play a recognized form of my own, personal fresh economy. If telling people how "awesome" they are is nice thing to have, or just an unnecessary waste of time is in this case luckily not my decision. And now I'm out of here again, when I posted earlier I wasn't aware that there is already a full-blown war around this topic going on elsewhere in this part of town.

PS: I would have liked to like the post from Waterfiend at least twice, so here you go ;)
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I'm so annoyed with all this bs. "I found all my item. I'm super good at this game. Not like you who spend money to play it. Give me recognition since I bloody need one because I can't afford to gear myself like cc warriors." Whenever I go to monk forum it's like "just cleared inferno on my self found monk". Really? I cleared mine when it's 1.0.3-1.0.5( I don't really remember) where I have like max 400k gold. You don't see me posting all over the forum telling people about it. Now every time I check the forum it's more about the self found players. What? You have e-peen problem that you require recognition so much. jeez
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Self found is moronic in the current itemization. Already not fun never finding items I want on AH or if there is one it's already 2 beez sniped being resold on black market never to be found again - now you want to limit yourself to this horrendous RNG of D3 that's completely inferior to it's predecessor?

Sorry that's just moronic, you deserve a swift kick in the backside for being a masochist not any damn recognition.

How about be self found after they fix this terrible loot and maybe it will actually be rewarding and fun, imagine that? Till then just play hardcore, AH-ing really doesn't matter much on there.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 6/15/2013 3:02 AM PDT
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06/14/2013 09:34 PMPosted by Grave
if they take the lazy way out and use only "shiny recognition status" you can be 100% assured games will be full of loser griefers dropping unids all over place, making self-found players lose their status.

This is a good point. I think someone mentioned a "Warning" box whenever you're about to equip gear that would nullify your SF status.
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06/15/2013 01:52 AMPosted by obiwan
And what's about a self-founded that buy a gear in the AH, once... "incidentally" ?

Then you would lose your SF status. /discussion

Edit: Oops, correction. Having non-SF gear in your inventory would be okay per se.... but equipping it would cause you to lose your SF status.
Edited by Waterfiend#1909 on 6/15/2013 3:23 AM PDT
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06/14/2013 09:58 PMPosted by Dirk
They should just flag Items self-found in your profile. Then you could see which pieces are self found on everyone.


I'm self found and I agree with this 100%.
I like this much more than a self-found league to be honest, and it's less trouble for Blizzard to implement.

The problem with a self-found league is also that people would have to start from scratch.
I mean, I love the game, but no way I start from scratch, self found, after 40k elite kills. Took me so long to get some just OK drops ( !@#$ mempo, triumvirate, stuff like that )...

But just flagging self-found items would be a good thing I think, and not just for self found.
I assume even AH-using players like finding great drops, and would be proud to display them.
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Lylirra,
the Auction House undermines item progression and the devs have concluded this in their live stream interviews recently. Let me reiterate the point the devs made, you have your items you found and your level 60. You go on the Auction House and find AMAZING items much better than you have for a cheap so you buy them all for all slots. Before you bought those items you were wearing items on a scale of 1-10 say a 2 or 3 the items you just bought are a 7-8. The scaling of rarity of items becomes little to none above the 8 range so you've skipped past 5-6 levels of item progression, this is how the Auction House undermines item progression because the Auction House has essentially given you those items, it is a tool much better than farming (playing the game *cough*) for item progression. The problem with the Auction House is that it undermines one ofthe main core aspects of the Diablo3 experience which is item progression.

Why is a separate self found character mode necessary in comparisons to what the typical moron response to "just dont use the AH then" snide remark. Self found comes with a level of respect. It gives value to yourself, to your characters, and the people you come across. Having a self found mode is the only way to ensure that you and the other players you play with legitimately found their items as opposed to the "just don't use the AH then" (very childish response) which even some very dedicated and strong willed people will have a hard time giving in to eventually but this reinforces the point that it ensures legitimacy. It also ensures that players are not duping themselves in the item progression experience like mentioned above which is important and the devs I think know this now.
Should self found mean no trading in-game though? Maybe, but I would say its not the same as the Auction House. The odds of you joining a game with someone that has a "godly" item that they're willing to trade for something you even have that is "godly" enough to match it is very unlikely therefore I think in game barter trading is legitimate for a self found mode, I suppose it just becomes a "No Auction House" mode at that point.
Edited by NOLLegendz#1445 on 6/15/2013 6:03 AM PDT
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This game is too far forward to change UI into something else. They failed simple as that. I go through 1000's of rare and Legendaries and find nothing that is better than my current gear and my current gear isn't even that good. I'm getting tired of picking up rares because they are nothing but garbage that lvl 52's won't even buy.
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06/15/2013 02:16 AMPosted by flarbear
wouldn't mind a way to be able to occasionally share an item or some gold from a private character to the shared account, or maybe in reverse at the whim of the player, but not at the cost of having everything shared in a single set of resources


With respect to disallowing AH use for a self-found player, I wouldn't want the AH to be completely inaccessible. Right now I am self-found, but I do sell things of value on the AH, and do not keep the gold. I don't want someone else who wants the option to buy a very rare item to miss out just because I don't buy things on the AH, or use it to pad my gold account.


06/15/2013 03:12 AMPosted by Waterfiend
This is a good point. I think someone mentioned a "Warning" box whenever you're about to equip gear that would nullify your SF status


I think it's ideas like this that make self-found (SF) a really convoluted idea. It's like hardcore players who want an escape. A let-me-buy-him-back-after-x-months idea (yea it was on here). And here's the thing. Diablo II really wasn't self found per character either. You al know this. You go find a game, copy the name of it, and jump back and forth among your characters trading gold, items and the such to get stuff from one to the other.

Sure it was easier to be SF in Diablo II, but people always had an escape when they became weak and couldn't resist. Or maybe "weak" has nothing to do with it and SF was never a considered issue in Diablo II. It's only now, now that it's all shared, that people want something else. You know what I wanted in Diablo II? Share stash. It made sense. SF isn't a bad idea, but it seems for every limitation, people want more. With more options given, some what less and more with escape parameters in case they flip flop.

It's incredibly convoluted and cannot be correctly instituted with so many conflicting ideas.

On top of that, you're only allowed 10 characters. Do you know what I did in D2 when I got tired of a character build and the stats and how I messed them? I deleted the character! I deleted the character! If you want true self found, delete everything on either hardcore or softcore, destroy every item, give away every ounce of gold and start over. Who cares if your artisans are level 10. That seems to be a very insignificant factor.

Once you've purged one side or the other, only make one character and play OR ...

- -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- -

Or just ask Blizzard for to all you to use one slot that is completely isolated from the current hardcore and softcore shared-ness.

Here's how that works. If you haven't used all 10 slots, use one now to create a character.
Choose class
Hardcore / softcore
self found or no?

  • NOW it's all separate. At this point, all your account's items are tagged.
  • You cannot pick up anything you dropped by one character in one game while on a character that is self found.
  • You can accept trades and give items to people but cannot accept items in return.
  • You can see but cannot pickup items that people find in game but throw down on the ground.
  • You can "sell" items on the AH, but the gold is given to some other means.
  • Now here's even the greater catch here. People wanted the idea of trading items for items like in olden days. Well self found is self found. Either it's one or the other or maybe it's actually meta-self-found where you can trade items with others in game or a new self found AH.
  • You cannot accept gold from any other means but by selling to vendors in game or through the game itself.
  • So which is it? pure no trading self found or you can trade with others but not with gold? An auction house that trades items with items would be significantly difficult to program. We're talking expansion level detail that cannot come out for x months or years. That's a whole other rant post by me.
    Edited by Lykos#1124 on 6/15/2013 10:29 AM PDT
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    I agree that a self found league would keep the game alive. At this point I would start a new char, wouldn't use the ah, but only if I play with other people that play like me so I don't feel outdated, and an official ranking system existed, with all the players based on dps and ehp !
    I still have my first good drop. Used it a lot then, would have been using it now and would have personalised it if there have been an option to do so and if I was in a self found league. file:///C:/Users/Proof/Documents/Diablo%20III/Screenshots/Screenshot008.jpg
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    omg get over yourselves already.
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    06/14/2013 01:34 PMPosted by Nishi
    I believe Congressman Daywalk3r campaigned on this very issue.


    LMAO
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    I guess it would be really easy to make a "self-found" league on the Blizz side of things. Just another game mode like HC...

    All it would take is locking out AH and making everything BOA including gems and mats.
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    I totally think self-found mode is a childs way of saying. I wont pay to play and will not or can not actually pay. Or a true Fan of Diablo that cant justify paying anything more to blizzard.

    Anyways, if they do create this mode they need to do a few things

    1) Make this mode separate just like Hard Core, except no AH.
    2) Make Everything the user picks up BOA. That way there is no cheating in self-found mode.

    Without reason 2, Whats to stop them from having two accounts and buying items on one, then giving it to there other account. Then its not true self-found instead its pay2win and defeats the sole purpose of playing that way.

    If they want self-found mode, and want Recognition for it Give it to them, but do not consider adding it if you do not listen to both option 1 and option 2.
    Edited by mat82284#1707 on 6/15/2013 10:23 AM PDT
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    Possible re-post because I took too long to post original?

    @Lylrilla,

    Ref: Ideas taken from Iron-man style of play http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6412492777

    The programming required to institute a separate "Self-found" mode shouldn't be too difficult. We are asking for restrictions that could be disabled by terminating JumpSubroutines. My idea follows:

    - Self-found players can only play with other self-found players and there should be a limit on the level difference of the players to prevent power-leveling abuse, i.e. 5 levels maximum. Some games even divide the experience gained by giving more to the higher levels and less to the lower levels (but what about Paragon levels? Ten levels?);
    - No trading, no auction houses, no dropping of items or gold; in effect, all items are account-bound;
    - Selling items to vendor should give more coins because all you can do is sell them or break them down;
    - Except for above statement, vendors should remain the same;
    - Item drop rates in general should be improved, especially for plans that are used by the Blacksmith and Jeweler;
    - Each self-found character is a separate instance, thus a separate stash, separate blacksmith and jeweler; you can't trade items between that self-found character and any other character;
    - Self-found mode should also be able to be used with hardcore mode; either/both selected via checkboxes;
    - Monster Power, Infernal Machine, etc. all to remain the same; and
    - Denote self-found characters in a special way...I know, give us a halo (colour matches character class, i.e. red for Barbarian, purple for Demon Hunter, yellow for Monk, green for Witch Doctor, and blue for Wizard).

    For your consideration.
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