Diablo® III

which is better now?

0dog VS cloud of bats
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Bats. I'm only at 178k dps and I friggin tear mp10 up. Enemies splatter all over the place.
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06/12/2013 02:41 PMPosted by Freddyk79
Bats. I'm only at 178k dps and I friggin tear mp10 up. Enemies splatter all over the place.


What can anyone say to that?

I suggest the OP get your secret recipe.
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If a 0dog was ~178k dps they'd be more than able to farm mp10, assuming their defensive aspects were in check. Just like any spec.
Edited by Mitchlol#6174 on 6/12/2013 4:27 PM PDT
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Yes a zero dog. Not an under-buffed CoB build.
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Bats. I'm only at 178k dps and I friggin tear mp10 up. Enemies splatter all over the place.


What can anyone say to that?

I suggest the OP get your secret recipe.


there's a reason why the mojo for 0-dogs has low damage. i can say that my 130k not BiS 0 dog gears is 3/4 as efficient as my 270k(the most BiS that i can afford right now) CoB build. imagine if the 0-dog build gets 270k.

and yeah, that's for mp10 as well.
Edited by chubs#6873 on 6/12/2013 6:05 PM PDT
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Neither is really "better", but 0dog requires billions of gold in gear to do the same damage output as 300-400mil CoB build.
Edited by Joey#1757 on 6/12/2013 6:24 PM PDT
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I die much less playing with bats due to GI reseting cool downs of such skills as spirit walk and being able to use passives such as spirit vessel for second life

With bats, I do MORE dmg. dont listen to anyone. 210k dps COB killed ghom 2.5-3x times faster than 150k 0-dogs. Do note that the 150k dps 0dogs build costs more as well... WIth that budget a 250k cob build is possible.

I clear trash faster, I move faster due to GI reseting cooldowns and I have more survivability due to not having to gimp my passives to be able to run a 0dogs build.

If blizzard someday decides to increase -zombie dogs on gear by 5 on each slot so that we dont have to use tribal rituals or use 2 -ZD+ tribal rituals so that we can get more gearing/passives options. Id say 0dogs would be okay. But right now..... I 100% sure an equal cost cob build would !%*@###* 0dogs build insofar as survivability and kill speed BY FAR.

The only time a 0dogs build really shines is in multiplayer setting so that its feeding other players infinite globes which opens options for very cool combos. Think about all the passives that gives resource on globe pick for each of the other classes. What cool combos could insue!! But that is about it.
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ah yeah i forgot to compare survival issues. yes, a CoB build survives more than a dogger because of the passives they use.
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wtb ascii Fry 'not sure if' face
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If blizzard someday decides to increase -zombie dogs on gear by 5 on each slot so that we dont have to use tribal rituals or use 2 -ZD+ tribal rituals so that we can get more gearing/passives options. Id say 0dogs would be okay. But right now..... I 100% sure an equal cost cob build would !%*@###* 0dogs build insofar as survivability and kill speed BY FAR.

The only time a 0dogs build really shines is in multiplayer setting so that its feeding other players infinite globes which opens options for very cool combos. Think about all the passives that gives resource on globe pick for each of the other classes. What cool combos could insue!! But that is about it.


That's it right there. 0 Doggers are basically required to use Tribal Rites, Zombie Handler, and Gruesome Feast. There's no room for GI, which is one of the most powerful skills for a witch doctor in the later stages of the game. 0 doggers are great in multiplayer, but without GI they are unable to keep voodoo+paranoia up against elites and are forced to kite more as SW doesn't proc as often. No doubt 0 dogs is an extremely powerful build capable of high effective dps, but it is very restricted at better levels of gearing. I do hope blizzard tweaks these issues and returns 0 dogs to the prime position it held in the bears era.
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06/12/2013 06:31 PMPosted by chubs
ah yeah i forgot to compare survival issues. yes, a CoB build survives more than a dogger because of the passives they use.


Dumbest comment ever. Either your being sarcastic or you're truly ignorant of the dog build.
Edited by JonkZ#1210 on 6/12/2013 10:06 PM PDT
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As a Zero Dog player I would steer newer players to bats due to the current bottleneck of gear for dogs. I see lots of "Help me with Zero Dogs" threads and all of the players have ok gear but a weakness really shows up when you add dog gear. I personally lost 89k dps changing out my SoS to Homoculous.

If you want to play dogs, wait for the item patch or have +10 bil gold.
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Posted by chubsah yeah i forgot to compare survival issues. yes, a CoB build survives more than a dogger because of the passives they use.


06/12/2013 09:54 PMPosted by JonkZ
Dumbest comment ever. Either your being sarcastic or you're truly ignorant of the dog build.

Agreed. For example other builds need LS to tank. No damage = no heal. For a 0dog running 'For The Master' and LS, it's guranteed at least 24k life return per attack, even when elite shielding is up. But still I am not here to bring down the survivability of other builds, there are advantageous of bat/bear builds as well. I enjoy both but prefer 0dog.
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ah yeah i forgot to compare survival issues. yes, a CoB build survives more than a dogger because of the passives they use.


Dumbest comment ever. Either your being sarcastic or you're truly ignorant of the dog build.


im not, against whites, 0 dogs is superior. but against elites i find myself in trouble sometimes when i go on the middle and can't get out. moreof when i got caught on frozen + desecrator. i have no 2nd wind skill whilst my SW is on cooldown. someone already asked that before how to survive on 0 dogs while SW is on cooldown, so i know we have the same problem.

06/12/2013 10:58 PMPosted by BotakZhang
Posted by chubsah yeah i forgot to compare survival issues. yes, a CoB build survives more than a dogger because of the passives they use.


06/12/2013 09:54 PMPosted by JonkZ
Dumbest comment ever. Either your being sarcastic or you're truly ignorant of the dog build.

Agreed. For example other builds need LS to tank. No damage = no heal. For a 0dog running 'For The Master' and LS, it's guranteed at least 24k life return per attack, even when elite shielding is up. But still I am not here to bring down the survivability of other builds, there are advantageous of bat/bear builds as well. I enjoy both but prefer 0dog.


hi, you cant even use skill when you are frozen. so how do you get 48k life/sec when you're frozen and SW is on cooldown? well i tend to find myself in those situations a lot so i said that. im talking about elites here. whites are no problem at all.

with GI resetting cooldowns in a matter of seconds, you can get out from the middle by just re-SW'ing.

but yeah, that's just me and my playstyle. others have more dodging techniques so they dont have those problems. my bad.
Edited by chubs#6873 on 6/13/2013 12:21 AM PDT
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hi, you cant even use skill when you are frozen. so how do you get 48k life/sec when you're frozen and SW is on cooldown? well i tend to find myself in those situations a lot so i said that. im talking about elites here. whites are no problem at all.

with GI resetting cooldowns in a matter of seconds, you can get out from the middle by just re-SW'ing.

but yeah, that's just me and my playstyle. others have more dodging techniques so they dont have those problems. my bad.


So you suicide your character? I'm not saying I never die but I also don't get into a situation I am totally over extended. Specific to frozen elites; identify they are frozen, and give yourself room to move.
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not really, sometimes i just find my WD not able to get out from the fray. i have a couple of lags too maybe that why. nonetheless, i agree with you guys, 0 dog all the way. i'd like to upgrade soon to be more efficient.
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For any starting player right now, bats is clearly the way to go.

Zero dogs is more a boutique build and its not for everyone. For anyone who is even thinking of going zero dog, i'd suggest getting a cheap 5 piece set to try it first. you can get this for less than 50 million gold. You need at least 34 seconds of reduction. Even 33 sec is no good. I have 120k dps zero dog gear in my stash, with good mitigation and life stats, and it doesn't kill as fast as my cob build (which is very close to the gear in my profile, minus the shield and add about 60k dps)
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