Diablo® III

Will D3 support OpenGL4 with OS X Mavericks?

Hi guys!
Just finished watching WWDC'13 keynote where Apple presented many new cool features/products.
They also presented the new OS X Mavericks coming this fall and packing the whole bunch of new cool features. And OpenGL4 was finally among those features.
So I'd like to ask the guys at Blizzard if we'll see an API update for D3 to support the OpenGL4 for better performance/look in the future when Mavericks arrives?
Thanks!
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Too soon™
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I'll wait :)
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90 Undead Warlock
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I imagine they would need to get their hands on a developers copy first, if they don't already have one.
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Be aware that if/when this happens, 10.6.8 support in any form whatsoever (as in the game at least launches) is gone. Just sayin'.

Update soon or else.
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Thanks for response, TheTias!
Is there absolutely no way to keep the 10.6.8 support? I.e. having two compiled app versions - ogl4 one and the legacy one?
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Very unlikely. If they did plan to do that, I imagine they would announce it rather than saying they are dropping support. Would also mean needing to spend extra time working out bugs in each patch to make them work with each OS.

They are dropping the support so they can take advantage of what the newer OS can offer the dev team that the older OS won't let them do. Dropping it also means, hopefully, better gameplay for those who have low end spec systems, but newer OS.
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In the contrary to "if/when/be_aware_of" D3 team members are always saying when they're asked about better/newer APIs support in D3:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9245385714#10

It's kinda sad, if you ask me..
Edited by Kaellar#2472 on 6/13/2013 4:58 AM PDT
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@ Kaellar:

S4d1k is also the D3 team member and sc2 team member. In fact he is the ONE man responsible for all 3 games graphics engines. him and only him. So supporting OpenGL 3 or 4 is a huge endeavor, especially for a single person to also try to simultaneously support 10.6 and OpenGL 2.1. It's why i always say, users who don't upgrade hurt everyone. Blizz does system surveys and have to support what the survey data supports users still run. If more users were on 10.7 plus, blizz would be far more inclined to push these newer apis. They can't if it means alienating 20% of their user base though. 2% on other hand, is more reasonable sacrifice. Like tia says, upgrade to latest OS X your mac can support at any given time, is better for you and everyone else in long run. when 10.6 goes bye bye, then hello opengl 3.2/4.1 (if it actually makes game run better, like he says)
Edited by MysticalOS#1981 on 6/13/2013 11:44 PM PDT
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Does OpenGL 3.2/4 really matter when all but one IMAC has a 512mb card in it? Macbook airs and minis still run the lackluster intel HD graphics.

To get anything reasonable performance at higher settings you must spend 2 to 3k for the top end cream of the crop mac. We have been getting short changed for about 10 years by apple in the GPU department.

There are myriads of choices out there that could make their way into a new mac, apple has the skill and knowledge to do it.

But its more profitable to push and shove users into the higher money machines.

So OpenGL....does it even matter?
Edited by sneakytails#1320 on 6/14/2013 8:18 PM PDT
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Yes, it does matter.

OpenGL 3.2 has 95% support in Lion and later, meaning all of the Macs that can run Lion or later (which will soon likely be the only supported OSes) will see a benefit. The main benefit is moving from the Compatibility Profile, which is what Snow Leopard uses and is forcing on Lion/Mountain Lion due to back-support necessities, to the Core profile in OpenGL 3.2. That alone should resolve some of the longstanding issues with things like stutter and asset loading.

OpenGL 4.x will be a bit trickier since that requires a relatively modern card, the minimum being a Radeon 5xxx series or nVidia GeForce 3xx series or later video card/GPU. None of the Intel GPUs will benefit from this except the new Haswell HD4600, which is why it's tricky to bother with OpenGL 4.x right now.

But moving to Core Profile in 3.2 (Lion/Mountain Lion) definitely has advantages in terms of support and longevity.
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06/14/2013 10:38 PMPosted by TheTias
But moving to Core Profile in 3.2 (Lion/Mountain Lion) definitely has advantages in terms of support and longevity.


This is a bit too technical for me but I certainly hope that this action provides performance enhancements.

Listen, there is a problem when I see double... triple... and in dramatic cases like Diablo3, quadruple the performance increase when running my machine via Windows 'Bootcamp'. This is a colossal failure, and I don't for a second doubt that infrastructure such as Core Profile's affect my performance, but there is a lot more to do. This isn't merely 'tweaking', we have a huge uphill battle to climb i.e. there is a lot more that needs to be addressed before Mac users are satisfied.

On a side note, an issue that plagues both Windows & OSX, what is happening with the server-side problems implicated by 'increased mob density'? I have buddies with what are essentially supercomputers experiencing paralyzed visuals because of this.

Thank you.
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Yes the OpenGL improvements sounds great, I am all for it, but its more complicated than that for more than a few users.

A lot of mac users want to upgrade to the newest OS and glean the benefits from them but for me and others its the cost of the software that would have to be replaced that stops us.

My software investment is greater than what I paid for my mac. I need my software on a daily basis. Its a very big deal to replace this stuff.

Diablo 3 costs around 60 dollars, having to spend a few thousand on software to run on the new OS to play d3 again is just out of the question for me and others.

Its not even the big 3 software titles for me, I have a lot of smaller programs that really make life easier for me and are not available on the newer OS.

I wish all i did was surf and play games on my mac but for me and many others this is not the case.
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Tia uses 10.6 as his primary OS still, but has 10.8 as well. there is really very little excuse for not having a 10.8 system for gaming while maintaining 10.6 for your specific software titles that need rosetta. dual booting on a mac is quite easy to setup. plenty of guides out there. tia can probably write something up to about his setup.
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Once core profile comes over then yes I will switch over to dual boot OSX. But right now I get better performance under Bootcamp on my second partition.
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06/15/2013 12:31 PMPosted by sneakytails
Once core profile comes over then yes I will switch over to dual boot OSX. But right now I get better performance under Bootcamp on my second partition.


In all fairness (and honesty), even with Core Profile, Apple's implementation of OpenGL may still be somewhat lacking vs. the Windows implementation in terms of performance. We'll have to wait and see. I hope that by being able to ditch the Compatibility Profile that we'll at least see improvement, and we should since many of the functions in there are specifically related to asset management, but I can't say with any certainty that OS X will be on par with Windows performance even then.
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Then in the meantime its plan B for now and continue running bootcamp.

After plan C for a while (the console version) I will come back and check on our mac baby.

Hopefully by that time better GPU's come into being on low to mid level macs and the OpenGL under mavericks is implemented.

Until that time its hurry up and wait....
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06/14/2013 10:38 PMPosted by TheTias
None of the Intel GPUs will benefit from this except the new Haswell HD4600, which is why it's tricky to bother with OpenGL 4.x right now.

Well, it's not only HD4600, but the whole Haswell HD Graphics series (Including 4200, 4400, 4600, 5000, Iris/Pro) supports OpenGL 4.
Just my 2cents :)

Even with Core Profile, Apple's implementation of OpenGL may still be somewhat lacking vs. the Windows implementation in terms of performance.

Is there any hope that Mavericks will implement OpenGL in better way? From not-that-advanced guy's perspective it looks like they did a lot of work on the field of system performance' optimization.
Edited by Kaellar#2472 on 6/16/2013 3:32 AM PDT
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Bump!

Anyone install Mavericks yet, tried diablo?
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I totally support Blizzard moving their system requirements up to Mavericks if that's the only way. Mavericks is likely going to be the fastest adopted system upgrade in history, because it's FREE. I mean seriously...come on guys. If that means we can't play D3 on older OS software, then that's fine by me. Apple has just changed the game in a big way by offering their OS as a free upgrade. Not to mention Mavericks supports system hardware from 2007 for crying out loud!

I have heard a few people have tried playing D3 on Mavericks already, but one person said their fan speed increased and there was a lot of lag.
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