Diablo® III

My 2 Cents... DH and Caltrops.

Caltrops is practically the single crowd control capability we have, and it is completely useless at the moment simply due to the ineffectivity of the "slow" in general and its non-existance against elites. Just try using Hooked spines for its virtually 0% slow vs the elites, and torturous ground which usually snares one monster and not the 612 monsters around it. The wizards have perma freeze which work perfectly against elite monsters, why should the DH's caltrops work differently against whites and yellows?

Caltrops working effectively would bring back the kiting ranged DH. You introduced this thing called Monster Power system and rendered all our skills useless, the least thing that could have been done is to re-scale the only way we could zone ourselfs against monsters, Caltrops. Caltrops working properly is step 1 to improving zoning with a DH.

You know, caltrops isn't the only thing. There are few other things that easily be changed to make DH gameplay very exciting at the higher level, eg how things like Sentries could be an excellent way to make multi-dpsing action possible and effective on the DH at all levels. But I do not even have the will to go into it, when there is such lack of communication and somewhat ignorance on the real issues, which many many experienced demon hunters would like help on, to make their gameplay exciting and worthwhile.

I have listened carefully to the Devs insights on Archonthewizard's stream, and frankly was very disappointed by the lack of care and dis-interest into the class. Instead, if you do not mind saying so, I got the impression that the devs were a little arrogant about it that they think they already know everything, and that it's totally fine, and plus, that DH is supposed to be a subpar class. Even the solutions being talked about did not impress me at all because talks about buffing the damage of this or that, cutting the hatred costs etc, these are in my view not really how you are going to solve anything at all for the DHs.

I just want to ask, what are you doing? What is actually gonna be done before the expansion? Who from the Blizzard team really truly understands the demon hunter class and works on it? Can we talk with them to read into their thoughts? I am sure many DHs would have a zillion questions they would like to ask.

I have been part of a DH community which loves the class for its uniquess and its gameplay since day 1. I am sad to note that I am one of the very very very few that still consider myself as a DH player, although I started playing some CM Wizard lately.

This is just my 2 cents, as I just pass by the forums. :)

Thx.
twitch.tv/theprohacker
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im also still on dh, even though there are just too many skills that i would put on, use for 2 mins, and cant stand it anymore. its not that its ineffective(i can deal with that), rather the mechanics are just frustrating to use.
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blame blizzard for nerfing caltrops to a zero proc skill and just slightly reducing wiz and barb procs and even gave them a warning. Caltrops died when blizz nerfed it to the ground. Used to be awesome before though
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06/13/2013 07:04 AMPosted by TheProHacker
Caltrops is practically the single crowd control capability we have, and it is completely useless at the moment simply due to the ineffectivity of the "slow" in general and its non-existance against elites. Just try using Hooked spines for its virtually 0% slow vs the elites, and torturous ground which usually snares one monster and not the 612 monsters around it.


Why are you exaggerating so much here, though

If Caltrops were useless, I wouldn't risk my character's life with the usage of them.

Something being useless, and something being not as powerful as it can be, are two completely different concepts.

Hyperbole isn't going to help the class, be more practical than this.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 6/13/2013 9:03 PM PDT
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If you put RF with NS on left click and caltrops on right click with jagged spikes you can get a decent eDPS stack with caltrops by spamming a ton of them.

I don't like turret play myself but it can be a good build with guardian turret SP: gloom etc. Or even chain of torment.

Not saying it's great or anything because it's another crappy tank build on a flimsy ranged class but it's something to play around with.

I agree with your post wholeheartedly, tank play with low unstackable eDPS is boring as @#$#@$.

It's good to show devs and other players that there's really no facet of DH we haven't tried. Gimmicky monk friends using a sever don't show a good class at all.
Edited by Otaking#1972 on 6/13/2013 10:02 PM PDT
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Caltrop should totally have a rune that sucks in mobs. it would work like a blackhole sucking in all surrounding mobs and slowed once within range! i'll call it Shadow Space or something. ..
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Umm...I love caltrops. They are very useful to me. Hooked spikes on the other hand may not be as useful as the other runes. Torterous ground stops multiple targets at once, not just one.
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It's true that caltrops needs a buff, but I don't think that it's useless. It's actually very useful for builds that use the passive "Cull the Weak" to deal more damage to slowered enemies. Although it would be nice if they buffed caltrops so it slowers elites. I think that they should bring back proc to caltrops.

What I can't understand is how Barbarians have a better offensive passive than Demon Hunters:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/ruthless

I think that we need better offensive passives.

And... Improve dual whielding.
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I believe ALL skills have its uses.. People are either bored or reluctant to try things out.

Also, stuff shouldn't be MP10 usable to BE usable.
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he mean caltrops don't stop the new hordes of monsters, they can be useful to buff you damage with a couple of runes but they aren't good at slowing enemies now, especially elites
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DH basically was nerf-clamoured by Range DH aka Glasscannons back in 1.03. Glasscannoners wanted to force all DH to play Range and stop using Caltrops in general and Caltrop-JS in particular.

1.04 came, and the TankDH spec died.

months thereafter, Blizz introduced Monster Power. Then all of a sudden the Glasscannoners could no longer keep up with the other classes who can manage crowds.

Who to blame why DH suck now? The Glasscannon kiting DH who have migrated to other classes or quit D3 altogether (to keep away from getting blamed at).

I only blame Blizz for their lack of love for range class. And I doubly blame our fellow glasscannon kiting DH for the motivation to weaken a specific skills set back in 1.03 that made DH of 1.08 totally lame.

What skill set am I talking about?

Bring back proc! Bring back proc to Caltrops, grenades and so on. With this, DH can face tank even MP10 and do DPS instead of kiting back to town. Make caltrop do LoH once again. Make it proc Crit and Nightstalker, crowd controls and so on. This will make DH be able to compete against mobs... Wiz can freeze a large group of monsters with the Nova's large radius; Caltrop do no have that much radius! We are still at a disadvantage even if it procs so why not add it anyways? Its been over a year and Barb can WW all the way while having Berzerker on... Why cant we just have proc?
Edited by ragnakore#2796 on 6/14/2013 6:16 AM PDT
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06/14/2013 05:00 AMPosted by Mesercus
he mean caltrops don't stop the new hordes of monsters, they can be useful to buff you damage with a couple of runes but they aren't good at slowing enemies now, especially elites


It can still slow but good luck slowing FAST innate FAST mobs.. only way to stop them is Stun.

That's why Lickers in Act 3 with FAST was a menace pre-Inferno Nerf. Most were even FORCED to remake their game if they happen to encounter one :))

@Ragnakore, i feel you man >_<
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I used to play with Bait the Trap but now love Jagged Spikes.

With a tank built and extra discipline you stack up to 5 while the big crowds rush in and get great additional AOE-Damage (12 yards and up to 1-2 Mio extra damage per sec for no hatred ain't that bad), incredible lifeleech with Gloom + snapshot with Custom Engineering for 12 sec leech - so slow is more like a bonus ;-)

I couldn't believe that with some EHP you can simply hit Gloom + 5 Spikes and just stand in most mob groups on any MP for 12 sec (without Custom Engineering for 6 sec) and do nothing. No need to miss loh-procs like that.

And the Jagged Spikes also fit perfectly to compensate that delay of Echoing Blast and Imminent Doom.
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I used to play with Bait the Trap but now love Jagged Spikes.

With a tank built and extra discipline you stack up to 5 while the big crowds rush in and get great additional AOE-Damage (12 yards and up to 1-2 Mio extra damage per sec for no hatred ain't that bad), incredible lifeleech with Gloom + snapshot with Custom Engineering for 12 sec leech - so slow is more like a bonus ;-)

I couldn't believe that with some EHP you can simply hit Gloom + 5 Spikes and just stand in most mob groups on any MP for 12 sec (without Custom Engineering for 6 sec) and do nothing. No need to miss loh-procs like that.

And the Jagged Spikes also fit perfectly to compensate that delay of Echoing Blast and Imminent Doom.


No one loves Jagged Spikes anymore :(( Very few remembers it's former glory.. But I still find it great ^_^
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06/13/2013 09:01 PMPosted by ActionKungfu
Caltrops is practically the single crowd control capability we have, and it is completely useless at the moment simply due to the ineffectivity of the "slow" in general and its non-existance against elites. Just try using Hooked spines for its virtually 0% slow vs the elites, and torturous ground which usually snares one monster and not the 612 monsters around it.


Why are you exaggerating so much here, though

If Caltrops were useless, I wouldn't risk my character's life with the usage of them.

Something being useless, and something being not as powerful as it can be, are two completely different concepts.

Hyperbole isn't going to help the class, be more practical than this.
QFT. Actually JS can be one of the highest eDPS skills on your bar. And it isn't the only CC skill we have- there is Stun on Bola and Grenades, as well as the snares from Entangling Shot, KB on Impale, and probably a few that I forgot about.
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06/14/2013 12:56 AMPosted by CLOUD
Caltrop should totally have a rune that sucks in mobs. it would work like a blackhole sucking in all surrounding mobs and slowed once within range! i'll call it Shadow Space or something. ..


^^ +1,000
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Id like for caltraps to work vs elites at the least. I dunno if they would think about caltraps working like cyclone strike, Maybe a stun/blind.
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06/14/2013 10:38 AMPosted by Vanadin77
Caltrop should totally have a rune that sucks in mobs. it would work like a blackhole sucking in all surrounding mobs and slowed once within range! i'll call it Shadow Space or something. ..


CA:CB

<3
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06/14/2013 05:46 AMPosted by Chrizzle
That's why Lickers in Act 3 with FAST was a menace pre-Inferno Nerf. Most were even FORCED to remake their game if they happen to encounter one :))


I chuckled...cause its true :<
something like this heh v
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5235713122#1

edit: idk another thread that made me chuckle a bit...not really http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5870857614?page=1
Edited by Neo#1863 on 6/15/2013 4:51 PM PDT
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@Neo:

Ah, the time when strategy was an important factor for players(when all the gear wasn't oversaturated - because we soon find out at the items are just too powerful albeit boring). All Monks and Barbs could do though, was just die repeatedly until they had enough res/armor and life, or a ranged to help them when they had to run. If a Barb or Monk without extreme defense tried to get in to take a swing, they'd just get straight mollywhopped.

D3 was heavily a ranged game then, now it's gone extreme into the other direction instead of striking the balance in between... probably because of how boring and potent gear is with no downside to consider(like Mempo), and some other changes. This is what the players wanted though, remember? There were complaints that in D3 melee was just no good, Blizzard aimed to change that, and now look what happened?

Back when your kiting ability mattered and DHs could do it best, they still can, but it doesn't matter anymore because it's weighted melee game now.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 6/15/2013 5:21 PM PDT
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