Diablo® III

I hate to make this topic but .. ladder.....

Is there any legit reasons to not get this implemented? In general discussion you cant really tell if the guy made it just to troll everyone because it looks like they actually put some thought into it. I hear this "I dont want to lose my gear or have my character deleted". Hc players are smarter than this right ? I cant even see the slightest downfall for ladder.

Anyone care to chime in?
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Community Manager
Personally, I dig the idea of a ladder, but I lack the time to be competitive in one. For me, it would be all about the reset they create. Wyatt talked about ladders in his chat with Archonthewizard recently, and you can read the transcript provided from diablo.somepage if you're interested.

What's the reason you'd like to see ladders in Diablo III?
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Fresh start , seeing the first set item drop , the race to 60(100)

For one the community knows whats good and whats bad item wise. So all the trash that was selling for 250 when the game came out that was really just bad items would still have a lower base value just because we all have gained some knowledge about what to use. Though they would still sell for more than usual the ah would probably balance. Not to mention having an empty AH would be amazing. Group bonuses now and monster density ( should be included through-out the whole game and I would like to see NV stacks while leveling )

TBH why wasnt it put into this game to begin with? Even Blizzard would make a KILLING on a fresh AH every 6 - 8 months when the resets happen .
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I feel that they should focus on adding more content to explore than re-exploring content.

If there's a ladder, there must absolutely be NO additional incentive to play it other than personal goal. Same with Self Found if that was to be implemented. No ladder exclusive items. No increased drop-rate. Nothing :/

I would much rather have "PvE challenges" in an Arena... in which I can challenge myself and try to improve my "high-score" than having to regear to get back where I was before the ladder reset... only to have it reset again.
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TBH why wasnt it put into this game to begin with? Even Blizzard would make a KILLING on a fresh AH every 6 - 8 months when the resets happen .


I feel as though it would have an opposite effect on their RMAH bottom line. Why spend $250 on a virtual item that has guaranteed depreciation and will lose 90% of its value in 3 months. Yes, that is already what's happening when you pay for items in this game but it's not as blatantly obvious as a ladder would be to the credit card bovines. But on the flip side, Ladder Gold would definitely be more valuable than regular gold. I'm not sure if the economies would even the two effects out.

A gripe I have with ladder is the crappy 10-character limitation on accounts.

And of course, you need to remember that the person who decided that ladder was "not fun" is no longer working on this game.

And Wyatt had come out and said that ladder is in no way happening without being a part of an expansion. So... you'll probably get your ladder as long as you plunk another $60 into the coffers of hell.

Edit: I re-read the thread so far and wanted to include more thoughts:

06/17/2013 04:07 PMPosted by Yukmout
Fresh start , seeing the first set item drop , the race to 60(100)


Because of Blizzard's lack of promised control over cheating, there will never be a true race to 60(100). Blizzard has continuously disappointed the community by its lack of enforcement towards even the MOST OBVIOUS botting and I feel as though a ladder would only make more of a mockery of the company's once-heralded flagship franchise.

If there's a ladder, there must absolutely be NO additional incentive to play it other than personal goal.


I do not understand the people who have this mentality. Why de-incentivise the draw towards ladder play? Ladder-only items has been a long-standing history in this franchise and have had great success.

The reason for ladder-only items is that they will be actually hard to find, if only for a short while. If a ladder season started tomorrow with a new unique helm that could only be found on Inferno MP5... there would be a race to be the first to get that helm. There would be posts across the boards with "FIRST EVER X-HELM FOUND!" and there would be anticipation among the masses for days, or maybe even weeks. That's really what this game is about, isn't it? The anticipation of something better.... (Oh the irony!)

If this same helm was implemented in both ladder and non-ladder environments, the first one would be found within 5 minutes of the patch launch, posted on the AH and instantly bought for 2-Beez and re-posted on D2JSP for 10x the price in a grand total of about 15 minutes.

Implementing new items in non-ladder environments makes for less excitement about the new items. ESPECIALLY with the AH as part of the equation. In a game which has hard-to-find-items as it's central draw, the AH obliterates much of the mystery surrounding what is "really" available.

Unlike past versions of the game, you no longer know a guy who has a friend who found a Windforce and let you see it in the trade screen once. Now you can see that there are about 10,000,000 Windforces on the market and you can even sort them using Excel to figure out which ones are over and underpriced.

Too much of the mystique has left this franchise. Ladder-only items may be one of the last hail-marys this game has, and there isn't even a ladder to find them in yet.
Edited by Diomedes#1380 on 6/17/2013 4:33 PM PDT
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06/17/2013 03:59 PMPosted by Grimiku
What's the reason you'd like to see ladders in Diablo III?

It's an opportunity to revisit.

What that means is that some of the success of ladder depends on the game's depth.

It's quite fun, in Diablo 2, to play a completely new and whacky build, while doing so in the fresh start context of ladder, building your character as you go.

The instant-skill switching in D3 and no other character-based customization hampers this factor.

I wrote a lot more in the other ladder topic:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9245745553?page=17#326
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i want a ladder so the gold to item ratios dont get way out of control like they are now.

a good hard reset every 6 months or so would be a great idea.
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That 10 character limit would change to 10 non ladder characters and 10 ladder characters. though you really only need 1.
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Ladder is pay2win at maximum level. You buy all the good gear and reach paragon 100 in under a week.
Soooo, I don't know why everyone wants it that much, I thought most players don't like pay2win.
I mean it would be fun to race to hc inferno diablo again but the game is too easy for that, I'd rather just see some class balance (like make DHs OP and other classes suck for the next 6 months and then bring them to the same level)
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What that means is that some of the success of ladder depends on the game's depth.

It's quite fun, in Diablo 2, to play a completely new and whacky build, while doing so in the fresh start context of ladder, building your character as you go.

The instant-skill switching in D3 and no other character-based customization hampers this factor.


Absolutely agree. I was going to put something like this in my previous rant but I didn't want to get too off-topic.

06/17/2013 04:33 PMPosted by Yukmout
That 10 character limit would change to 10 non ladder characters and 10 ladder characters. though you really only need 1.


Oh we're making things up in fantasy land now? Okay. In my ladder, Pony-land is actually Awesomesauce Dragon Land and there's a Dragon King who has 7 affixes and there's a SPECIAL SET IN THE GAME that can only drop in Awesomesauce Dragon Land that has viable, sought-after affixes that are useful 100% of the time and have much more viability than a crappy level 33 sword that has a .01% chance of rolling insane damage to make sure you faceroll the game on every character you ever make from thenceforth - making the game even MORE of a mundane snoozefest than it already is.

Try not to post false "facts." It only spreads misinformation on these boards.
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In the beginning of the game there wasnt loot to pay2win for when you just hit 60. Thats the whole point. You have to get that far in a certain amount of time with LIMITED loots. Its perfect.

Who said it was a fact ? Its a possibility IF ladder was even happening . This is a hypothetical situation thread ... Do you know what that is ?

Dragon land ....
Edited by Yukmout#1681 on 6/17/2013 4:44 PM PDT
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I do not understand the people who have this mentality. Why de-incentivise the draw towards ladder play? Ladder-only items has been a long-standing history in this franchise and have had great success.

The reason for ladder-only items is that they will be actually hard to find, if only for a short while. If a ladder season started tomorrow with a new unique helm that could only be found on Inferno MP5... there would be a race to be the first to get that helm. There would be posts across the boards with "FIRST EVER X-HELM FOUND!" and there would be anticipation among the masses for days, or maybe even weeks. That's really what this game is about, isn't it? The anticipation of something better.... (Oh the irony!)

If this same helm was implemented in both ladder and non-ladder environments, the first one would be found within 5 minutes of the patch launch, posted on the AH and instantly bought for 2-Beez and re-posted on D2JSP for 10x the price in a grand total of about 15 minutes.

Implementing new items in non-ladder environments makes for less excitement about the new items. ESPECIALLY with the AH as part of the equation. In a game which has hard-to-find-items as it's central draw, the AH obliterates much of the mystery surrounding what is "really" available.

Unlike past versions of the game, you no longer know a guy who has a friend who found a Windforce and let you see it in the trade screen once. Now you can see that there are about 10,000,000 Windforces on the market and you can even sort them using Excel to figure out which ones are over and underpriced.

Too much of the mystique has left this franchise. Ladder-only items may be one of the last hail-marys this game has, and there isn't even a ladder to find them in yet.


Adding "ladder only items" mean that NL will no longer be the place to farm for items. People will want new items. You are FORCING them to play Ladder. You are imposing your play-style on people who don't want to play Ladder. They will have to play ladder, or suck it up for months and hope they have enough gold to buy an overpriced version of the item. Also, most of the Ladder characters will be deleted once they become NL.

If the AH is your problem, how about you start pushing for MORE BoA legendary items and other loots. That would fix your problem you have with "10 000 000" Windforce in the AH, would it not?
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Ladder is pay2win at maximum level. You buy all the good gear and reach paragon 100 in under a week.
Soooo, I don't know why everyone wants it that much, I thought most players don't like pay2win.
I mean it would be fun to race to hc inferno diablo again but the game is too easy for that, I'd rather just see some class balance (like make DHs OP and other classes suck for the next 6 months and then bring them to the same level)


you arent paying to win.

a ladder would mean a hard reset on items and gold. everyone starts fresh. yes ppl will buy items on RMAH but they wont be "godly" like alot are right now.(unless someone gets some lucky rolls)

for hardcore a ladder would be great. i love the fact of a hard reset like they did in D2 it kept the economy changing every few months.when items get into the 2B+ range it just baffles me that someone would need that much gold for 1 damn item. i liked the start of D3 the most when the highest item selling was 100m and it would stay in the AH for a feww weeks cause...who the hell had that much gold lol.

2B is max for AH but d2jsp i see items going for 10b i seen someone trying to sell a BIN item for 30b
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I do not understand the people who have this mentality. Why de-incentivise the draw towards ladder play? Ladder-only items has been a long-standing history in this franchise and have had great success.

The reason for ladder-only items is that they will be actually hard to find, if only for a short while. If a ladder season started tomorrow with a new unique helm that could only be found on Inferno MP5... there would be a race to be the first to get that helm. There would be posts across the boards with "FIRST EVER X-HELM FOUND!" and there would be anticipation among the masses for days, or maybe even weeks. That's really what this game is about, isn't it? The anticipation of something better.... (Oh the irony!)

If this same helm was implemented in both ladder and non-ladder environments, the first one would be found within 5 minutes of the patch launch, posted on the AH and instantly bought for 2-Beez and re-posted on D2JSP for 10x the price in a grand total of about 15 minutes.

Implementing new items in non-ladder environments makes for less excitement about the new items. ESPECIALLY with the AH as part of the equation. In a game which has hard-to-find-items as it's central draw, the AH obliterates much of the mystery surrounding what is "really" available.

Unlike past versions of the game, you no longer know a guy who has a friend who found a Windforce and let you see it in the trade screen once. Now you can see that there are about 10,000,000 Windforces on the market and you can even sort them using Excel to figure out which ones are over and underpriced.

Too much of the mystique has left this franchise. Ladder-only items may be one of the last hail-marys this game has, and there isn't even a ladder to find them in yet.


Adding "ladder only items" mean that NL will no longer be the place to farm for items. People will want new items. You are FORCING them to play Ladder. You are imposing your play-style on people who don't want to play Ladder. They will have to play ladder, or suck it up for months and hope they have enough gold to buy an overpriced version of the item. Also, most of the Ladder characters will be deleted once they become NL.

If the AH is your problem, how about you start pushing for MORE BoA legendary items and other loots. That would fix your problem you have with "10 000 000" Windforce in the AH, would it not?


What are you even saying dude. New loot ? Deleting character ? Forcing people to play ? Dude ... I dont even know what to tell you ....... Over priced items in non ladder? What ?
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Who said it was a fact ? Its a possibility IF ladder was even happening . This is a hypothetical situation thread ... Do you know what that is ?


Good point. My apologies for going off on you a little too hard. Sorry about that, I must have been lost and thought I was in GD for a second.

Dragon land ....


AWESOMESAUCE Dragon Land! Get it right! :)
Edited by Diomedes#1380 on 6/17/2013 4:51 PM PDT
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Ladder is pay2win at maximum level. You buy all the good gear and reach paragon 100 in under a week.
Soooo, I don't know why everyone wants it that much, I thought most players don't like pay2win.
I mean it would be fun to race to hc inferno diablo again but the game is too easy for that, I'd rather just see some class balance (like make DHs OP and other classes suck for the next 6 months and then bring them to the same level)


you arent paying to win.

a ladder would mean a hard reset on items and gold. everyone starts fresh. yes ppl will buy items on RMAH but they wont be "godly" like alot are right now.(unless someone gets some lucky rolls)

for hardcore a ladder would be great. i love the fact of a hard reset like they did in D2 it kept the economy changing every few months.when items get into the 2B+ range it just baffles me that someone would need that much gold for 1 damn item. i liked the start of D3 the most when the highest item selling was 100m and it would stay in the AH for a feww weeks cause...who the hell had that much gold lol.

2B is max for AH but d2jsp i see items going for 10b i seen someone trying to sell a BIN item for 30b

This is probably a reason they aren't implementing a ladder (at least as of now). Their RMAH would crash.
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I personally think the RMAH would maybe not sell for high prices since we all know what is considered good loot. Obviously some things will sell for 250 right away but even the smaller transactions but multiples of them every day a new ladder reset happens Blizzard would be making tons . Not like they dont already but it seems like a smart move. I'd much rather have no AH in ladder and then everything found when the ladder resets would just get toss into the heap of trash the non ladder ( or right now ) ah is .
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This is probably a reason they aren't implementing a ladder (at least as of now). Their RMAH would crash.


right now i wouldnt think there are that many players buying items from RMAH cause the game has been out long enough for ppl to farm items for themselves and earn enough gold to buy an equal stat item from the gold AH unless new players are coming in everyday and using the RMAH.

i dont play softcore so i wouldnt know how often ppl buy from RMAH.

only thing i would see making the RMAH crash is the amount of items selling for max $$ that wont be selling for max $$ with ladders because who wants to keep wasting $$ on items every 6 or months. so instead of selling items for 250$ you prolly start getting alot more items with those stats going for i dunno 25-75$ because ppl wont be as frivolous with their money.
Edited by woodpeker#1206 on 6/17/2013 5:02 PM PDT
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Man I could only imagine this thread in general discussion. I'm also very surprised my first comment on the thread was a blue. :o

If they were to make many different seasons with different "pages" of characters . Like a weekend warrior ladder or a weeklong race even a month race. These are all things that would be awesome. Imagine having a weekend long ironman . I dont know about you guys but I havent done an Ironman since way back when in D2 hc days.
Edited by Yukmout#1681 on 6/17/2013 5:04 PM PDT
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Me and my friends would like to see a selffound ladder mode, HC and SC, without AH and trade window disabled! We were discussing this for quite some time.

Needs: Seperate Public games also for this, and friends on contactlist can only join this mode if they started it, so seperate chars. So 5+ additional char slots for this selffound ladder mode pls.

One can choose to start such a ladder in char creation, so no chars deleted, no gear lost.

There should be rewards for this, like new achievements (make them more important! a new banner color for an achievement? lol - why not other bonusses, where is the need to hunt for some difficult achievements now?), unique gear, unique char visuals, stat bonus etc.!

New and fresh game mode! Let the hunt begin...
Edited by TANNHAUSER#2931 on 6/17/2013 5:15 PM PDT
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