Diablo® III

Optimizing the 1.67 APS RF breakpoint

Please note: this guide is a bit too specific. THERE ARE MANY GOOD RAPID FIRE BUILDS. This guide is specifically about optimizing the 1.67 APS breakpoint. The reasons are mostly stated below in the guide. I'm currently using a gearswap build that uses the 2.001 breakpoint.

Here are some reasons why the 1.67 breakpoint is good.
1. Hatred management is very easy.
2. You don't need to stack a ton of attackspeed, which makes getting higher dex, crit chance and crit damage a lot easier.

Disclaimers: This is a Manticore (you could use a rare x-bow too) build, stop reading now if you refuse to use one. Yes there are other good DH builds, but I happen to think this is the best for doing high DPS at high monster power. This build is awful for low MP speed runs. If your goal is high sheet dps and don’t care about effective dps, then this build is also not for you.

TLDR: get exactly 1.67 APS, maximize primary stats, crit chance, and crit damage, use hatred regen skills, use only rapid fire. profit.


With this build, your effective DPS vs elites will be about 11x your sheet dps for Rapid Fire // Fire Support, and about 7.5x your sheet dps for Rapid Fire // Bombardment. (for example, my sheet DPS is around 320 thousand, but my effective DPS is about 2.2 to 4.1 million, depending on skill and gear options)

This build is focused around using Rapid Fire 100% of the time to deal massive amounts of damage. The goal of this build is it hit the 1.67 APS break point for Rapid Fire (thanks go out to Nubtro for doing the frame by frame breakpoint analysis). If you go higher than that, hatred regeneration becomes a problem, and if you go lower than that you will have low DPS.

In order to maximize the build effectivity and effective DPS, you must hit EXACTLY 1.67 attacks per second. (If you drop to 1.66 APS your effective DPS will be at least 10% lower, despite what your sheet DPS shows, this is because you’ll drop to the next lowest breakpoint.) And going a few percentage points higher will not increase your DPS in the slightest, and you’ll miss out on useful affixes.

There are two skill sets that work well with this build, the first is for the Infernal Machine quest, and the second one is general purpose.

---Skills---

Infernal Machine / Uber Boss build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WchgXR!efX!abZaZY

LMB: Bola Shot // Volatile Explosives rune
You need this as an AoE attack for clearing elites and trash before the Ubers
RMB: Rapid Fire // Fire Support rune
Main DPS skill for ubers. Absolutely nuts single target damage.

other required skills
Marked For Death // Mortal Enemy rune
M4D keeps your hatred up 100% of the time vs Ubers, the rockets proc this skill nicely
Companion // Bat rune (hatred regen obviously)
Shadow Power // Gloom rune (make sure to cast before you start channeling because RF snapshots lifesteal.)
Smoke Screen // Lingering Fog (being dead is bad for your DPS)

Passives

Archery (I have no idea why you wouldn’t take free damage)
Nightstalker (super required)
Perfectionist (swap for steady aim if you have high EHP and/or a CM wiz in your group)

General Purpose build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#RchgXV!efX!bcZaZc

LMB: Marked For Death // Whatever rune. use whatever rune you like best. Probably valley of death or Grim Reaper. Mortal Enemy is pretty bad with Bombardment because the proc coefficient is quite low against single target since it’s an AoE attack.
RMB: Rapid Fire // Bombardment rune
Grenade cannon is go! Yes, this is your only attack. No, you won’t run out of hatred if you play correctly.

other required skills
Preparation // Backup Plan rune
Helps a ton with discipline.
Companion // Bat rune (hatred regen obviously)
Shadow Power // Night Bane rune (make sure to cast before you start channeling because RF snapshots lifesteal. The 3 hatred regen is super important for this build)
Smoke Screen // Lingering Fog (being dead is bad for your DPS)

Passives

Archery (I have no idea why you wouldn’t take free damage)
Nightstalker (super required)
Perfectionist (swap for steady aim if you have high eHP and/or a CM wiz in your group)

With this build you will be able to keep rapid fire up constantly. Here’s the math:
At the 1.67 aps breakpoint, bombardment uses 10.91 hatred per second. You generate 4 hatred standard ~1.25 from your offhand, 3 from the bat and 3 from Night Bane, which yields 11.25 hatred per second. 11.25 - 10.91 > 0, therefore you can keep bombardment going constantly.

The tricky part is keeping Night Bane going constantly, but with Night Stalker and Preparation, it’s not too difficult, but if you’re having trouble, I’d recommend getting +10 discipline on the cloak and/or quiver.

---Gear---

This is a list of all the gear that you will need to make this build work. Follow this guide closely and the build will work for almost any budget. Also make sure to stack as much vitality and resist all elements as you can afford without sacrificing too many DPS stats. In order to maximize effective DPS for your gold/money, get exactly these pieces. Getting the wrong gear can easily increase your sheet DPS but decrease your effective DPS and build effectivity. The only slot with some flexibility is the second ring.

You can try to use the above skill set with any gear set, but if you follow this gearing guide your effective DPS will be up to 25% higher than an un-optimized gear set of similar value (even though the sheet DPS for this gear will be about 20% lower). This gearing will also provide better hatred sustain and effective health points than an un-optimized set.

Bow: Manticore
Required rolls: Being a Manticore. You must use a Manticore for this build.
Ideal rolls: %damage, Socket

Quiver: Dead Man’s Legacy
Required rolls: 20% attack speed (VERY IMPORTANT)*
Ideal rolls: 10% crit chance, up to 8% bonus crit chance to rapid fire, high dex high vit.
Optional rolls: bonus discipline (replaces bonus dex/vit)

Helm: Mempo of Twilight or Andariel’s Visage
Required rolls: 9% attack speed (VERY IMPORTANT)*
Ideal rolls: any amount of crit chance, 70+ all reist
Optional rolls: dex/vit roll
Note: unless you have a ton of all resist and vit on other pieces, I don’t recommend Andariel’s Visage.

Chest: Natalya’s Embrace
Required rolls: -
Ideal rolls: High dex/vit, 12% life
Optional rolls: All resists, bonus discipline (don’t get hatred regen, you won’t need it here)

Belt: Inna’s Favor
Required rolls: -
Ideal rolls: 8% holy damage high dex/vit
Optional rolls: All resist
(Don’t use a Witching Hour, it’ll give you higher sheet DPS, but lower effective DPS, the attack speed is useless, and you really want the dex bonus from the Inna’s set)

Pants: Inna’s Temperance
Required rolls: 9% attack speed (VERY IMPORTANT)*
Ideal rolls: high dex/vit roll
Optional rolls: All resist

Boots: Natalya’s Bloody Footprints
Required rolls: -
Ideal rolls: High dex/vit, get the highest balance of dex and vit you can afford

Ring 1: Stone of Jordan
Required rolls: 25%+ bonus vs elites, +9 or 10 discipline
Ideal rolls: 6% elemental (doesn't matter what type) up to 7% rapid fire crit chance

Ring 2: Unity, Hellfire Ring, Litany of the Undaunted, or Rare
Required rolls: 4.5% crit chance, high dex
Ideal rolls: 50% crit damage, + min/max damage, bonus vs elites
Optional rolls: All resist, vit, life %, 35% exp bonus (avoid attack speed)
(HF ring if you’re under p100, Unity for DPS, and Litany if you need more All resist)

Gloves: Rare or crafted
Required rolls: Crit chance, Crit damage, high dex
Ideal rolls: Crit chance, Crit damage, high dex, vit, all reist.
Optional rolls: (you really don’t need attack speed here, you want to avoid it because it takes up a slot that could be vit or all resist or armor)

Amulet: Rare or crafted
Required rolls: Crit chance, Crit damage, high dex
Ideal rolls: +min/max damage, Crit chance, Crit damage, high dex, vit, all reist.
Optional rolls: (you really don’t need attack speed here, you want to avoid it because it takes up a slot that could be vit or all resist or armor)

Bracers: Strong Arm Bracers, Rare or crafted
Required rolls: Crit chance, high dex
Ideal rolls: Crit chance, high dex, vit, all reist.
Optional rolls: (DON’T GET LACUNI PROWLERS, they’re awful for this build, also, Strong Arm Bracers are ok, but it’s easy to roll better crafted ones.)

Shoulders: Vile Ward or crafted
Required rolls: Dex, vit, all resist
Ideal rolls: Dex, vit, all resist, bonus armor, life%

* Note: if you have a Manticore with the 11% attack speed modifier instead of the 10%, drop 1% attack speed from exactly ONE of these slots in order to get better crit/dex/vit rolls.

Gearing option: If you really really really like the +20 discipline from the Natalya’s set, you could potentially use a Natalya’s Reflection and a Natalya’s Sight, but you will sacrifice DPS and eHP over the Mempo + Unity combo especially since a good Sight and a good Reflection are quite expensive, and even a mediocre Mempo and Unity will beat them. Also, don’t try to use the Legacy Natalya’s set, you really don’t need it, and you’d have to sacrifice a ton of stats and pick up another attack speed piece to get it to work.

I’ve worked through all the math and all of the gear configurations, and I strongly believe that this is the best gearing for Rapid Fire, regardless of budget.

How to use the build and other notes:

Cast marked for death and shadow power then just stand there and constantly rapid fire. Don’t move unless you absolutely have to. For this reason you need to have fairly high effective health points ( try to hit 400+ AR and 60k+ life). If you’re having a hard time surviving, I’d recomend group play (try to find a Monk, Overawe is AWESOME). Monks are also great farming partners if they use Cyclone Strike because it pulls the mobs closer together, making your Bombardment grenades hit more targets.

Don’t try to play this build glass cannon, it won’t work. This is because Rapid Fire costs 20 hatred to start channeling, so you can’t be moving around a whole lot. If you move around too much you’ll simply run out of hatred. For that reason this is also best used as a high MP build.

The reason why extra attack speed is bad for this build is that it does literally nothing until you go up to the next breakpoint (+14% for bombardment and +28% for Rapid fire). The reasons why you don’t want to hit those break points are twofold. First is that hatred regeneration becomes a problem and you’ll have to drop a useful skill for a terrible hatred regenerator. So even if your RF DPS goes up, you’ll waste so much time with a terrible generator that your real average DPS will go down. Furthermore, the slots taken up by attack speed can be used to improve your effective HP, making it so it’s possible to stand still and not die. Since standing still is critical to this build, you really want a lot of EHP.

Smoke Screen is super critical for this build to work properly, mainly because of the Frozen affix on elites. You want to be able to keep standing there and just Smoke Screen through the Frozen so you can keep shooting.

A quick note on Stone of Jordan: You could potentially use a ring other than a Stone of Jordan for this build, but even a decent SoJ will do more damage than even the best rare ring will do. Obviously the SoJ will only do more damage to elites, but white mobs have low enough HP compared to elites that their clear time is negligible. In general an SoJ will give you about 15% more DPS vs elites than a rare ring of similar value. Also, the +9/10 discipline is extremely useful. A good rapid fire SoJ will be somewhat hard to find, but it’s well worth the effort and investment.

(why do you want to hit exactly 1.67 aps? because attackspeed is expensive. extra attackspeed usually means lower dexterity, and since higher attackspeed does nothing until you hit the next breakpoint, you want to have the exact amount of attackspeed to maximize other stats.)

Feel free to add me in game if you have any questions or want help gear shopping.
Edited by Atomsk#1902 on 11/13/2013 9:15 PM PST
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Nice guide

What's your opinion on having a high-end crossbow instead of a manticore? It's 100% black damage and the SoJ, Inna's Belt and potential Zuni Boots would become a lot more effective
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yeah, im interested in this, and the way i see it you can use any xbow as long as u end up with that 1.67 attack speed.

from my current setup i calculated that to be around 12%ias i need more on gear.

also all that wasted +spike trap dmg is gonna piss me off, so need to replace those pieces, not sure if worth it...help
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If you want to do even more, you could refer to this: :P

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9281758813?page=1
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Short answer: I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a rare xbow with 10% or 11% increased attack speed.

The reason that I recommend using a Manticore is because they automatically come with that affix.

This build works because you only have to have +20% attack speed on your quiver and then two pieces with 9% attack speed (helm and pants, in this case). Allowing you to focus on more powerful and useful affixes on rings, amulet, gloves and bracers.

So, unless you have that 10% or 11% increased attack speed on your bow, you wont really be able to get this build to work properly for you without a very high budget, in which case, you probably already have a nice Manticore.
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1.66667BP is 12hatred spent per second.
2.00001BP is 15hatred spent per second.

At 8 Hatred regeneration (what most players have), you have 26.25 Seconds of Channeling ((125-20))/(12-8)) at 1.67BP while at 2.01BP you have 15 Seconds ((125-20)/(15-8)).

Further more it is possible to reach 2.01APS with only 5 Pieces of IAS + DML with a 1.221APS (11% ias) Manticore.

Mempo of Twilight 9%
Natalya's Reflection 9%
The Wailing Host 9% (preferably 4% BvE)
Inna's Temperance 9%
The Witching Hour 9%

Dead Man's Legacy 19%

For a total of 64% IAS. 1.221 * 1.64 = 2.00244APS

I Rock MP7 and 15seconds is more than enough for any elite (except the shielding ones T.T). Also 2.00001BP is 25% more DPS (15arrows vs 12, excluding rockets) than 1.66667.

There is my knowledge on 2.0001BP.

Also there is Bombardment with it's 1.84? BP.
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(keep in mind that I play on MP10, and wrote this guide as a means of pushing the highest MP that your budget can handle, I would probably go for a higher breakpoint for lower MP because you need less mitigation and just want to clear super quick)

Yeah, the 2.01 breakpoint does do 25% more damage than the 1.67 break point, but that's only if you can get that attackspeed for free.

If I had a 1.221 Manticore, I might go for the higher breakpoint, but it's impossible to do efficiently with a 1.210 Manticore.

And even with a 1.221, you simply can't get as high of defensive stats at the 2.01 as at the 1.67 because you need 3 more slots of attack speed. What I found going through dozens of build configurations is that you're able to obtain the best balance of defensive and offensive stats at the 1.67 breakpoint (not to mention the easier hatred regen).

At an unlimited budget I think the higher hatred drain is probably worth it, and the 2.01 breakpoint is correct, but even in the 10b range, it's best to go for the lower breakpoint. You'll find that you'll be able to hit the same DPS because you'll be able to afford/get much higher CC, CD, dex and elemental damage. You'll also be able to have much better damage mitigation, making mp10 much more viable.
Edited by Atomsk#1902 on 6/18/2013 12:42 PM PDT
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Yeah I got 2.01 aps when I use RF and then go all cd/damage.
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Those magefists are cute. I plugged them into my DPS spreadsheet and it came out -10% DPS over my current gloves. I was sad though, because having a good use for mage fists would be awesome.
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You need to go all out dps skills / passives on if you wanna kill them elites fast

no NS / Perfectionist

http://youtu.be/guzAPdZV5J8

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9309481201
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Damn Impreza, 600k+ dps with a rare xbow

Granted you had a few buffs, says 414k on diabloprogress, which is crazy
Edited by aqso#1557 on 6/18/2013 7:22 PM PDT
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Here is my personal review on this guide.

After coming back from 6month+ break, my friends immediately warned me not to play Demon Hunter. Little did they know about this build. And boy, were they wrong.

This build plays out beautifully. Never felt more powerful using DH. The concept of whimpy DH playing mp10 has been long dead from my brain centuries ago. But this build allowed me exactly just that...

...even with my budget of 10 mil.

The most expensive gear I had to get was SoJ, which I got it for 5.5mil. The rest were all around 1mil, give or take.
Granted, I impatiently got all the gears in the spam of an hour soon after reading this guide and the very much anticipated 6hrs additional!! server maintenance yesterday, I'm fairly confident that if you're patient enough, you can even get better deals. (Actually, Amulet and Gloves were self found, but they're not that great either anyways. I can't imagine them being high worth)

So after finally understanding how to actually play the build, (It took me horribly long time to finally understand that I only needed to use Shadow Power once before channeling because the concept of "snapshot" did not exist when I used to play) I invited my "Mr. big shot" brobarian friends one by one). I told them to check out my garbage items and they thought I was nuts. How dare I claim that I can clear mp10 contents, let alone, elites. It felt as if I insulted them to claim to do what I can do.

Result was tremendous; I was able to plow through mp10 like a savage barbarian (well, not quite, but you get the jist). Made my barbarians friends spin with confusion and confoundment. I simply could not hold down the swelling pride of playing Demon Hunter.

So here I am, to applaud and commend your build.

Thank you for this experience!

And now, I do have few questions.
1) You said Night stalker is required. How come, when I use rapid fire, I don't gain back disc points? Am I seeing it wrong? It doesn't seem to trigger anything. Just a confirmation would be nice.

2) Because I was running a budget, I had to improvise the gear. Deadman's legacy, Mempo, and inna's pants, their price skyrockets with perfect IAS, but is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper with lower IAS. So I lowered them and got a slot with additional IAS.
Is skull grasp with additiaon Rapid Fire CC increase (upto 6%) a good fit for the build? Or would you recommend higher dps ring?

Thanks again.
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And now, I do have few questions.
1) You said Night stalker is required. How come, when I use rapid fire, I don't gain back disc points? Am I seeing it wrong? It doesn't seem to trigger anything. Just a confirmation would be nice.

2) Because I was running a budget, I had to improvise the gear. Deadman's legacy, Mempo, and inna's pants, their price skyrockets with perfect IAS, but is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper with lower IAS. So I lowered them and got a slot with additional IAS.
Is skull grasp with additiaon Rapid Fire CC increase (upto 6%) a good fit for the build? Or would you recommend higher dps ring?

Thanks again.

1) RF is a channeling skill, so you don't regain Disc with every bomb hitting the ground. You can research how it works.. start here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8569329357
If you remove NS, you'll definitely find that you regain disc much slower.
2) Yes, this guide is a little too strict on requirements. I absolutely disagree with the OP saying you need 9% IAS everywhere. You totally don't and can get around it by using WH or Nats ring instead of Unity.
To your question - generally speaking, Grasp is not a good addition because it only has 1 random roll. A cheap Nats ring will do better than Skullgrasp due to Nats set bonus (130 dex).
The only exception to this rule would be a top end RF grasp - meaning 6% cc, 6% RF, but those are very expensive.
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1) You said Night stalker is required. How come, when I use rapid fire, I don't gain back disc points? Am I seeing it wrong? It doesn't seem to trigger anything. Just a confirmation would be nice.

2) Because I was running a budget, I had to improvise the gear. Deadman's legacy, Mempo, and inna's pants, their price skyrockets with perfect IAS, but is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper with lower IAS. So I lowered them and got a slot with additional IAS.
Is skull grasp with additiaon Rapid Fire CC increase (upto 6%) a good fit for the build? Or would you recommend higher dps ring?


1. It does give you disc back, it's just sort of slow. The more monsters you hit, the more you will get back. If you turn it off you'll notice the difference in the long run.

2. Yeah, you totally can go with a third attack speed piece. But the reason why I said that you should have 9/9/20 is because it makes it so you don't have to spend an extra slot on attack speed. I suppose that on very low budgets that would be the correct thing to do. Once you get into a slightly higher budget you'll see good dps gains by having only attack speed on three pieces.

I'm glad you enjoy the build!
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06/19/2013 02:30 PMPosted by Ragnar
To your question - generally speaking, Grasp is not a good addition because it only has 1 random roll. A cheap Nats ring will do better than Skullgrasp due to Nats set bonus (130 dex).


I agree completely

06/19/2013 02:30 PMPosted by Ragnar
Yes, this guide is a little too strict on requirements.


Yeah I know it's really strict, but it's strict because I wanted to outline the build as fully optimized as I could get it. You can deviate slightly from it as long as you're in the 1.67-1.70 attack speed range. It will for sure be good, but not quite optimal.
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so i did this build, got a manti with 11ias which resulted in 1.68attacks per sec.

i see the higher dmg in terms of what i used to be able to do with rapid fire, however it still seemed slower than my clusters/echos build.

(also had a soj with 2cc rf over that spike trap one as well as a nats chest with higher stats and no echo bonus)
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Gear 2)
10 ias manticore
8 ias inna's temperance
8 ias nat's reflection
6 ias amulet or gloves.
16 ias deadman's with RF.
Pro's : Less ias restrictions maybe cheaper?
Con's : Since ammy has ias, will be harder to find an ammy with good cc and high cd.

Either way, the above add up to 48% ias exactly on crossbow which results in 1.67 aps

Notes: inna's belt/pants I prefer simply because its easier to get dex with, and some decent eHP.

Any other nyan criticisms are welcomed :)


Another option. Perfect ias rolls aren't cheap.
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06/20/2013 08:04 AMPosted by VocaloidNyan
Perfect ias rolls aren't cheap.


That's true, but if you're patient you can snipe a 9% temperance or mempo for the same price as a similar 8%.

If you don't have the budget for, or don't want to take the time searching for a good deal on perfect ias rolls, i'd recommend this gearing for attackspeed gear.

10% Manticore (or rare xbow)
8% Mempo of Twilight
8% Inna's Temperance
8% Ring, Amulet, or Gloves (whatever you can find the best deal on)
and that only leaves 14% on your Dead Man's Legacy, which opens up some good options.

(1.21 * (1+ 0.08+0.08+0.08+.014) = 1.67

That's probably a better low budget gearing.
Edited by Atomsk#1902 on 6/20/2013 3:52 PM PDT
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I have a rare cloak with 804 armor, 95 dex and 3 sockets. Won't i miss the armor when i replace this for a natalya's embrace which is 414 armor at most?
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Another question comes into my mind. Can I do ubers with this build? Thanks
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