Diablo® III

Sleet Storm FAQ and Checklist

I tried running IA/crystallize because I was getting annoyed by savage beasts/dark berzerkers and it makes so much difference. Hardly ever die anymore with it going, but I'm afraid that the damage loss from SA is too great of a trade-off.

Difficult to calculate the loss in damage when the sheet dps stays the same when switching from SA to IA. Mit goes to over 90% though which is nice.
06/27/2013 08:14 AMPosted by GunnersDream
I don't know - I remember the exact same discussion going on in the WD forums using CoB.


We've had the exact same discussion here, too. There's a few reasons a Skorn seems to edge out 1h.

Reactive armor does more damage than SA due to coefficients. Even with 95% cc, when you get hit, which in this build you often do, you're doing 70% damage and healing yourself. Many ranged mobs virtually kill themselves. The problem is that the heals aren't large enough for a 1h, but with a Skorn is pretty OP. Also, many affixes such as molten proc reactive armor... It's not just survivability, it's damage.

Being able to obtain 300% CD from one single item is enormous. The quality of your crits jump so high that they outshine lower CD with higher frequency.

The CC frequency is noticeable, but not as significant as you think. What you're seeing when mobs melt faster with a 1h is the fact that damage scales linearly with attack speed. The bar steadily drains faster. With a 2h, I watch trash mobs go from half health to dead with one crit.

The damage does scale linearly with APS, and this is great, but you only tick eight times every second with 2.0 APS (compared to four times a second with 1.08 APS) ... and at that speed, you'll probably start running into AP issues even with 20 APoC (depending on a lot of factors). Most 1h setups either use a slow 1h, in which case you're not gaining additional crit chances really, or they use a faster 1h and crit slightly more.

The problem is that the crit lasts from the time of crit to the time when you're able to trigger the next crit. (measured in frames with a base of 60 frames per second). In theory this should all average out, and on long fights it does, but with trash and easier elites, the Skorn still comes out ahead on this issue.

Why?

If you get 4 crit chances per second and you crit once in that second, you get 15 frames of increased damage (by a much higher multiplier). If you crit once at 8 crit chances per second in a single second, you've done 7.5 frames of increased damage in a single second. How often does that happen? Not terribly often, but if it does it sucks since you rely on CD to really boost your damage.

But... more important than that.... in a slow build, quality is better than quantity.

Let's make all things even for a moment. 50% CC for both 2h and 1h (fat chance, I know). And let's say the fight lasts... eh... more than a second. Let's just say 10 seconds... with the almost 200% extra CD you can easily rock on a 2h, you're hands down a winner. I wont even bother modeling that scenario.

Ok, now ignore what I just said, I just wanted to establish a baseline. I know it's unrealistic to have such low CC on a 1h build because the source can give you up to 10cc. So let's say, all things even again, you swapped out your 0cc Skorn for a 1h + 10cc source, making you have 60cc. How does that affect the damage? Well you'll never be able to compare apples to apples with 1h and 2h, but what you can do is run some reasonable numbers from observation.

(adjust my numbers if you disagree with them, it's ok, just don't expect me to agree with you)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assume 100 DPS for Skorn, and 125 DPS for the 1h (I feel a 25% increase in damage is more than what I see with a good 1h+src vs a good skorn).

We'll also assume 550% CD on the Skorn and 350% CD on the 1h just so we're throwing out the extreme gearing scenarios and going with something reasonably attainable for these builds.

The Skorn build will have the 50% CC and the 1h will have 60%... both attainable without the use of RoF items or buffs.

Skorn
100dps * 10seconds = 1000damage base
1000dmg * 5.5 (CD) * 0.5 (CC) + 1000dmg = 2750 damage over 10 seconds

1h+src
125dps * 10 seconds = 1250damage base
1250dmg * 3.5 (CD) * 0.6 (CC) + 1250dmg = 2625 damage over 10 second

And I think that's even too much biased in favor of the 1h+src b/c I can't personally find a reasonable LS 1h+src on the GAH which provides even close to 15% more damage than on my Skorn and my skorn is lower on the high end. (check out Malakai's Skorn. Skeet-worthy)

--------------------------------------------------------------

IN ADDITION, as a 1h you're probably going to want to run blood magic, which cuts out a 5% multiplier right there. Also, you might have problems with Explosive Blast draining you too hard on long fights, so you're going to go for other things, unless you're rocking 30 APoC.

So... the only option is to boost your CC even higher than 60%. With my 6% RoF Skull Grasp, my helm that has zero APoC but has 6% cc and 7% RoF, and with my Mara with full crit and 7% RoF, I can actually get to just a hair below 80% SS crit chance. Of course my sheet damage drops, I'm down to 10 APoC, and I lost RA, HPs, and Armor, but at least I'm critting like a maniac.... it's not worth it. And most of you don't even have one Mara's to swap. Or a Skull Grasp. Or a RoF Helm....

Which brings me to my other point. Sheet damage is stupid. It's not like we do "Sheet damage per second"... no. We have to actually go out and mine our freaking EDPS. Why am I bringing this up again? Because with a faster weapon, your sheet damage goes through the roof, but your REAL damage does not. From what I've read, have seen, and can tell... sleet storm doesn't proc any faster because you've got a faster weapon. What *does* happen is that your damage scales with attack speed. Here's the thing, though... your sheet damage actually scales faster. So while you may think you're getting a massive boost in damage by going faster (and yes, you are actually doing more damage), it's NOT AS MUCH AS SHEET DAMAGE INDICATES (sry caps). Sheet damage will blow up huge, but the benefit you see on SS is, eh, a fraction of that sheet damage increase. Mind you, a large fraction of the increase. More than 50%. But still a fraction of it. I can't tell you how much because it's purely observation based (can someone tell me if they've got data on this?), but it's probably about ... let's say you get a 5% sheet increase with an AS item, you're probably only seeing about 2-4% EDPS increase.... but you're seeing a much much larger AP drain.

In summary, call me a jackass, but I believe that if you're running a 1h, with all its disadvantages, you're not being all that you can be.
Edited by Rafazafar#1562 on 6/27/2013 10:05 AM PDT
06/27/2013 08:17 AMPosted by GunnersDream
My SS build/gear is nothing like what's recommended in this FAQ, but it's working great at any MP and is a blast to play. I'm surprised to see barely any mention of Deep Freeze (more APoC, DPS boost) or Arcane Dynamo in this thread. Even with just 9 APoC I do just fine w/ relatively little LL use, and it's very easy to gather 5 stacks for a 75% bust against elites.


I saw some discussion about that the other day. Came down to the "while you are casting LL, I am dpsing" sort of thing.
I do love how LL and AD take the whole attack speed problem completely away, so I could see it be very viable.
I just wish it was a little more obvious when you were in AD "beast" mode. I also wish knockback, nightmare, frozen, and vortex didn't mess it up so badly. With that many terrible affixes for AD, it actually seems uncommon to hit a pack that doesn't have one of them.


Definitely fair points, and all good reasons why AD is generally better with fire-and-forget spells, but I still find it can help a lot in higher MPs, especially if you have a cyclone Monk in your party. That and I just wanted something worthwhile to replace GC with since prefer having the extra eHP for this build.
Thanks for the build this has brought a new element of something to do.
Thanks for the checklist and FAQ. I read through it and changed a few pieces of my gear but I'm still struggling to survive on mp 7. Is there something I missed?
Try Reactive Armor. Try Safe Passage rune on Teleport. Also, your gear needs more crit chance.
I'd like to add that if you use 4/4 Tal Rasha for the additional 2aps, Arcanot, Astral Presence and Skorn, you can run sleet storm without APOC. The added 3% to cold and lightning damage is a nice bonus too!

However it should also be noted that the 6AP/s in passives and set bonus is only enough to fuel sleet storm; including EB concurrently will drain your AP pool but Prism does mitigate this challenge at the expense of other magic weapon.

Personally am pretty happy with the set up without EB, leaves one slot to play around with depending what I'm doing.
Slow time fore more damage or party contribution
DS Crystal Shell for Ocrap moments or Diamond Shards for an AP free AoE which is nuts in high density mob areas.

Gear wise, Tal's helm is affordable and a nice place to get more mitigation in. I only wish I could get more movement speed into the picture
I'd like to add that if you use 4/4 Tal Rasha for the additional 2aps, Arcanot, Astral Presence and Skorn, you can run sleet storm without APOC. The added 3% to cold and lightning damage is a nice bonus too!

However it should also be noted that the 6AP/s in passives and set bonus is only enough to fuel sleet storm; including EB concurrently will drain your AP pool but Prism does mitigate this challenge at the expense of other magic weapon.

Personally am pretty happy with the set up without EB, leaves one slot to play around with depending what I'm doing.
Slow time fore more damage or party contribution
DS Crystal Shell for Ocrap moments or Diamond Shards for an AP free AoE which is nuts in high density mob areas.

Gear wise, Tal's helm is affordable and a nice place to get more mitigation in. I only wish I could get more movement speed into the picture


4 piece tal set is definitely the way to go for this build... cheaper and better
07/17/2013 04:40 PMPosted by Chinners
4 piece tal set is definitely the way to go for this build... cheaper and better


I tried the four set two days ago with only the 10 APoC on the Tal's Unwavering Glare, and with Astral Presence, channeling Sleet Storm was fine, but I gimped my damage a lot, so I reposted the Tal stuff on the auction house.
I'd like to add that if you use 4/4 Tal Rasha for the additional 2aps, Arcanot, Astral Presence and Skorn, you can run sleet storm without APOC. The added 3% to cold and lightning damage is a nice bonus too!

However it should also be noted that the 6AP/s in passives and set bonus is only enough to fuel sleet storm; including EB concurrently will drain your AP pool but Prism does mitigate this challenge at the expense of other magic weapon.

Personally am pretty happy with the set up without EB, leaves one slot to play around with depending what I'm doing.
Slow time fore more damage or party contribution
DS Crystal Shell for Ocrap moments or Diamond Shards for an AP free AoE which is nuts in high density mob areas.

Gear wise, Tal's helm is affordable and a nice place to get more mitigation in. I only wish I could get more movement speed into the picture


Not a zuni piece to be found there - props on being loyal to the wizard set and not mingling with voodoo.
Thanks!

I tested without the 4/4 set bonus, no APOC, wielding Skorn and no attack speed on items (chest). Even with arcanot and astral presence, AP would drain noticeably. This indicates to me that the extra 2aps is pretty vital if you want to run a 2h, no APOC set up.

Damage wise for this is very respectable
07/17/2013 06:38 PMPosted by jenpeezey
4 piece tal set is definitely the way to go for this build... cheaper and better


I tried the four set two days ago with only the 10 APoC on the Tal's Unwavering Glare, and with Astral Presence, channeling Sleet Storm was fine, but I gimped my damage a lot, so I reposted the Tal stuff on the auction house.


well that's because you have a best SS setup already :)

for some reason I can't figure out how your dps is that high. even when I switch out my weapon i can only hit 430k dps with GC. your gear seems similar to my other gear. or maybe your sword is way better than my sword. but I do like your dps and hp very nice setup
07/18/2013 08:49 AMPosted by Chinners


I tried the four set two days ago with only the 10 APoC on the Tal's Unwavering Glare, and with Astral Presence, channeling Sleet Storm was fine, but I gimped my damage a lot, so I reposted the Tal stuff on the auction house.


well that's because you have a best SS setup already :)

for some reason I can't figure out how your dps is that high. even when I switch out my weapon i can only hit 430k dps with GC. your gear seems similar to my other gear. or maybe your sword is way better than my sword. but I do like your dps and hp very nice setup


D3up - you can load both your profiles and start exchanging items
I'm using Sleet Storm for quite a while now (since Malakai posted about it on the forums). It's great.

Anyway, I just tried it using a Death Watch Mantle instead of my Vile Ward. I lose about 15k sheet dps, but it seems to be working like a charm. I'd like to know what you think of it.

Still testing if it's faster. I'll keep you posted. :)
interestign choice on death watch, it's kind of like going for ehp over dps. I think it's a good option if you already have 300kdps or more without it, then it's a good way to beef your ehp. I think LoK (life on kill) is underrated as we should all be killing things rather fast so it's a good thing if you have the dps and are melting mobs.

don't expect the knives to actually do anything tho.

I'm having some trouble maxing dps with my purposely nerfed gear set lol, i'm not sure if i should use the elite damage from belt or not, otherwise i think the next step forward for 1 handers is to get an apoc trium but then i worry abotu loosing that 4sec teleport time so i'm goign to have to squeeze cm somewhere.

ahhh the build is just waaay to varying lol and given my limitations of using a dark mages shade and ty chest... god its' hard to amas the apoc and dps and ehp lol... i just hope the rof cc and elite damage is worth it.
08/04/2013 06:16 AMPosted by Amos
don't expect the knives to actually do anything tho.


Hmm. That's the sole purpose of me trying it, actually...

As I'm getting hit A LOT, I reckoned it would do quite some (AOE) damage. It also procs stuff and can crit.

Or is the damage too low to make up for the 15K sheet-dps loss?
subscribing to thread, i love sleet storm build
Yeah Frost nova either Cold Snap rune with good CC or Deep Freeze rune for 15% increase in CC helps a lot, Also I use Wormhole rune Teleport, Prismatic Armor rune on Energy Armor with Blood Magic rune on Magic Weapon, with a good amount of arcane on crit, Cold Blooded, Critical Mass with like Blur or something if your wealthy and can afford to get decent gear maybe Glass Cannon I also switch out with Slow Time or Archon Slow Time rune i change that out a lot, this is a pretty spiffy build it handles higher mps very well and i don't have good godly gear just balanced life,resist all with some armor you will rocket through np
If anyone has suggestions tips or anything please let me know I'm lacking life i think to successfully do mp10 ubers,I handle the Skelly king and fartingfatboy portals well its skinny and the beast that are very hard for me please please send tips this way if you have any@@
Edited by Jersey#1837 on 9/7/2013 7:02 PM PDT
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]