Diablo® III

Archon's new video on DH's

Heres a new video he put up discussing what he thinks is wrong with DH's and what he feels can be done. While i agree with some of what he said i think he totally missed the eDPS issue. Its not that barbs can only move and WW or that wiz can freeze and run its that they are both using multiple skills at once stacking tremendous damage into eDPS.

Also saying that we do comparable damage to ghom in a dps test is a terrible example. Not only do DH's lag behind 5-10 seconds behind all other classes in that but its a single target huge slow enemy. Every other class shines when they are dealing eDPS to multiple targets at once. He was geared with over 40b worth of gear and still lagged horribly behind all other classes lol!

Many of us have said this time and time again and im going to repeat it, its NOT our survivability. Its our eDPS.

Our eDPS issues are directly linked to --- Poor damage multipliers, Inability to spam such skills, inability to have multiple skills up at once

Those three things in combo create poor eDPS meanwhile every other class has easy access to those three things in some shape or form which creates tremendous effective damage output. Im not even going to touch the self buffs every other class gets lol, Overawe/WOTB/Soul Harvest etc etc

Never mind that most classes except DH's dont NEED a resource generator, seems like every other class uses a generator just to get their endless resource spender engines running and once the chain begins theres no need for them. (Yes theres a low mp DH Strafe build that doesnt use a generator but its basically situational compared to everyone else's faceroll build) Monks still use them a lot and i feel they are honestly the most balanced in the game right now but thats my opinion.

Also the reason we have the most skill diversity is because all our skills basically suck equally lol! the ones that do shine well they are almost always a must have. Nowadays its rapid fire or spike traps, shadow power and archery. All our other skills don't really matter to influence our decision lol

Sigh* I give up lol Blizz ruined my favorite class :P

Video
http://youtu.be/Z5QNuJ1LLtA
Edited by METATRON#1945 on 6/25/2013 2:41 PM PDT
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Well said. Sticky! Sticky! Sticky!
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Its not that barbs can only move and WW or that wiz can freeze and run, its that they are both using multiple skills at once stacking tremendous damage into eDPS.


This sentence says it all.
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Nailed It!
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Also saying that we do comparable damage to ghom in a dps test is a terrible example. Not only do DH's lag behind 5-10 seconds behind all other classes in that but its a single target huge slow enemy. Every other class shines when they are dealing eDPS to multiple targets at once. He was geared with over 40b worth of gear and still lagged horribly behind all other classes lol!

Many of us have said this time and time again and im going to repeat it, its NOT our survivability. Its our eDPS.

Our eDPS issues are directly linked to --- Poor damage multipliers, Inability to spam such skills, inhability to have multiple skills up at once

Also the reason we have the most skill diversity is because all our skills basically suck equally lol! the ones that do shine well they are almost always a must have. Nowadays its rapid fire or spike traps, shadow power and archery. All our other skills dont really matter to influence our decision lol


+1 to everything you've said.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Archon-1792/hero/27696949

^ This is his Demon Hunter setup. Ridiculously expensive gear and farming MP7... And Demon Hunter doesn't needs buffs according to him...

*sigh*
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I liked his last idea, but I really don't agree with a lot of what he was saying. Yea the DH has some pretty good skill diversity, but thats really at lower MPs. At any high MP you're going to want to facetank because that's just the most efficient way of doing it. Our skills just dont scale well with higher MPs which has been said a million times and we dont have good skills to produce multiple layers of damage all at once, which has also been said a million times.

And like you said, Ghom is a terrible example of damage. He was loaned a 40-50bil set and he admits that a 100mil budget archon wiz build will still probably out dps him. Dude....come on...if that doesnt tell you that something is wrong with our class I dont know what will.

The fact that you need billions in gear to do what other classes can do in millions is a terrible feeling. As far as his video went, I didnt really hear of any way he suggested of actually fixing the DH. Mostly just ways to fix the other classes and the gear so that the devs dont have to deal with us.

I think that if Archon took the time to farm his own gear and play the DH for awhile and not have someone loan him a 40bil DH set he might actually understand our frustration.
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Well yea he did seem to just side step how to fix DH's and gave us basically the Travis Day response, were doing good just everyone else needs some changes etc so just as you said the devs can just continue to ignore the DH. LOL! its sad really that when it came to nerfing us and the crying of everyone else saying we were OP the devs were the swiftest to nerf us to the ground but now that theres lots of info and numbers on what is wrong with the class nothing is said and we are ignored.
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06/23/2013 04:44 PMPosted by METATRON
Well yea he did seem to just side step how to fix DH's and gave us basically the Travis Day response, were doing good just everyone else needs some changes etc so just as you said the devs can just continue to ignore the DH. LOL! its sad really that when it came to nerfing us and the crying of everyone else saying we were OP the devs were the swiftest to nerf us to the ground but now that theres lots of info and numbers on what is wrong with the class nothing is said and we are ignored.


Something that I can't understand even now, it's why they nerfed the 2 discipline regeneration from the Natalya's set.
Right know, the Tal Rasha, Inna's, IK and Zunimmassa's have resource regeneration. But they nerfed it from the Natalya's...
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That's a very bad set for farming.

DML has 6% HA roll
Set has 30 disc.
Attack speed +71%

Its a diabloprogress ranking / drag race set, not made to farm mp10.

Can't blame the guy. he doesn't play DH
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06/23/2013 05:05 PMPosted by shndany
Well yea he did seem to just side step how to fix DH's and gave us basically the Travis Day response, were doing good just everyone else needs some changes etc so just as you said the devs can just continue to ignore the DH. LOL! its sad really that when it came to nerfing us and the crying of everyone else saying we were OP the devs were the swiftest to nerf us to the ground but now that theres lots of info and numbers on what is wrong with the class nothing is said and we are ignored.


Something that I can't understand even now, it's why they nerfed the 2 discipline regeneration from the Natalya's set.
Right know, the Tal Rasha, Inna's, IK and Zunimmassa's have resource regeneration. But they nerfed it from the Natalya's...


If memory serves... its likely due to the outcry of the early DH's OPness (read this out loud)... Sadly in the current state of the game the sins of the past still chain the DH to the ground.
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Is Archon in any way affiliated with Blizzard?

Just seems to come across that way.

Also, his video only shows MP 5 farming. Why not make an MP 10 one for comparison?

Seems like he is on our side, but doesn't want to show the eDPS issue in high MP levels.
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Personally I hope when the devs get around to fixing DH that instead of just some number tweaks we get a real mechanics change. Large portions of this class work against itself such as turreting channels on a class supposedly designed to stay at range and hatred consumption per IAS.

For example, just allowing us to fire hatred gen and hatred spender attacks at the same time would greatly improve things and open up all kinds of interesting build possibilities.

Better and more vault style mechanics allowing us to continue firing while vaulting would also help. There should be a way to play DH and kite ranged while reducing the APM of stutter. Stutter step could and should be made obsolete with the right skills in the DH toolbox to support a ranged style play. There should also be more access to CC immunity and/or stronger CC on a class meant to stay at range.

Using D3 training dummy Ghom to demonstrate anything practical is a huge fail. I like how 40b DH gear is 'comparable' to 150k dps wiz gear on the 40b gears most favorable situation. Class is in a sad state.
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06/23/2013 03:04 PMPosted by METATRON
the reason we have the most skill diversity is because all our skills basically suck equally lol!


06/23/2013 06:00 PMPosted by Trivan
Sadly in the current state of the game the sins of the past still chain the DH to the ground.


These should be stickied thread topics on DH.
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did he really say demon hunter damage is FINE? His test were done on mp5 with 400k dps demon hunter? I guess damage is fine... he did any serious eDPS tests aside from doing those mp5 runs with borrowed gear. He needs to review many threads players have done monk vs dh gear results threads.

lets try same test with other class who has 400k dps, I wonder how well they might preform...

someone beat me to it, so I will quote someone from the youtube video comments:

"so your idea is to remove constant CM, Archon, WW barbs and then give some sets that will give the ability back? Moreover, through another grind? Basically, you suggest nerfing all chars and then make ppl work for sth that they had before but was taken away from them? sounds really lackluster and artificial."

sorry but his idea isn't good at all. take look at the monk, he was struggling, blizzard gave the monk some buffs...oh wow they preform better now. Anybody complains about this? Same thing must be done with the demon hunter.

I hate to say this but he doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about because he hasn't done that well of research to even understand the problem. To say our damage is fine..ruins the whole video for me.
Edited by Krak#1139 on 6/23/2013 9:12 PM PDT
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i blame Nyan and his dam 13 seconds Ghom kill. At least with14 seconds and top ranked DH time is something we can say that only 1 player can achieve this time..

Band Nyan .. ^_^
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06/23/2013 03:04 PMPosted by METATRON
Our eDPS issues are directly linked to --- Poor damage multipliers, Inability to spam such skills, inhability to have multiple skills up at once


I think this probably sums it all. We need skills that hit really hard, cost little and possibly stack with each other. RF hits reasonably hard, cost decent but it does not stack well with others since all the hatred is used on RF
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I guess he did acknowledge that in order to compete with exploity builds demon hunters will have to be buffed a lot which i agree...

If we pretend for a minute that this game is about having fun...then dh with skill diversity is more fun than a cm wiz.

For the good of the game blizz should nerf cm wiz type builds to open up more viable build opportunities for the wiz and barb...sure players will complain but they will aldo have more fun in the long run as it just cannot be that fun to keep bashing the keyboard.

They then buff the dh to be about the same as the monk in dps and then we are good...

His workarounds will allow blizz to avoid the nerf but you cannot bring fun back to wiz and barbs without nerfing these op skills that break the game
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That's a very bad set for farming.

DML has 6% HA roll
Set has 30 disc.
Attack speed +71%

Its a diabloprogress ranking / drag race set, not made to farm mp10.

Can't blame the guy. he doesn't play DH
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Lol 400k dos and can only do mp 7 efficiently....

Every other class can do mp 10 with 1/2 the dos...

eDps is fine? Come again? What does that even mean?
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I find rather funny watching people replies to that video. I don't know why he release video about something you done zero research on.

his research involved in borrowing best gear, and doing mid range mp level. AND his final outcome? the damage is fine. This completely blew my mind.
But if you start reading people's replies, its even worse seeing many agree with his "research"... Not sure if they're fans or just don't play the class themselves to understand the issues. Maybe just not informed very well if they watch videos like his.
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