Diablo® III

Archon's new video on DH's

06/25/2013 09:18 AMPosted by bladezero25
Mission accomplished!


LMAO! >.< If I were a fish, I'd be Nyan's dinner by now. I take the bait far to often :(
Edited by TastySouP#1157 on 6/25/2013 9:59 AM PDT
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ONOMNOMNOM

209k dps DH solo mp10 ubers in < 10mins. Does that count nyan?
Edited by VocaloidNyan#1582 on 6/25/2013 10:01 AM PDT
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That's a very bad set for farming.

DML has 6% HA roll
Set has 30 disc.
Attack speed +71%

Its a diabloprogress ranking / drag race set, not made to farm mp10.

Can't blame the guy. he doesn't play DH


this

06/24/2013 07:28 AMPosted by Killua
Lol 400k dos and can only do mp 7 efficiently....


Effective farming: Vengeance+Custom Engineering+Spike Traps, so you don't have to suck with 0 hatred and don't need to wait for the first 3 traps to explode to place more.
So no, Archon doesn't farm MP7 efficiently if he doesn't use this combo (It also kills elite packs much faster than rapid fire if you can kill with 5 traps=full hatred to 0 with vengeance)
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I guess he did acknowledge that in order to compete with exploity builds demon hunters will have to be buffed a lot which i agree...

If we pretend for a minute that this game is about having fun...then dh with skill diversity is more fun than a cm wiz.

For the good of the game blizz should nerf cm wiz type builds to open up more viable build opportunities for the wiz and barb...sure players will complain but they will aldo have more fun in the long run as it just cannot be that fun to keep bashing the keyboard.

They then buff the dh to be about the same as the monk in dps and then we are good...

His workarounds will allow blizz to avoid the nerf but you cannot bring fun back to wiz and barbs without nerfing these op skills that break the game


CM, Wicked Wind, Explosive Blast, Archon and all the other Wiz skills combined are NOT exploity. They do NOT break or exploit the game. Blizz nerfed CM shortly after release (the CM/LL build with 2h weapon equipped), then nerfed attack speed (2nd CM nerf), then resurrected CM, then nerfed CM proc. coefficients. If Blizzard thought that CM was breaking the game, they neutered it the first time, they would not have brought it back.

Are we really going to assume Blizzard pulled a "big Oopsie-Doopsie" in designing the Wiz class and enabling CM builds through gear? Anyone believing such rubbish requires a full CT scan of their brain and a psych examination by 2 psychiatrists (yeah 2 PC).

Let me rephrase this question for clarity...

Are we going to assume Blizzard was grossly incompetent when:
1 - they added the Arcane Power on Crit (APoC) stat on Wiz specific gear (Wiz hat, wand, wiz off-hand = 30 APoC max)
2 - they enable the Critical Hit Chance stat on gloves (10 max), helm (6 max), ammy (10 max), rings(6 x 2 =12 max), Wiz off-hand (10 max) for a 48% CC max from gear
3 - they enabled the Critical Hit Chance stat as a set bonus (7% CC boots/ring 2 piece Nat's bonus and the ring can have another 6% CC) bringing the CC stat to a 55% max from gear
4 - they added the Critical Mass passive to reduce cool downs on crits (affected by proc. coefficients)
5 - added the Pin-Point Barrier rune to energy armor giving a 5% CC self buff
6 - added the Deep Freeze rune to Frost Nova (FN) giving a 15% CC self buff for 12 seconds if FN hits 5 targets or more
7 - they gave the class a native 5% CC making the remaining CC come from gear or temporary buffs.

The above is not an oversight, a faux pas, an oopsie-doopsie, a "my bad' situation. It is clearly intentional. CM builds only exist and are viable because of GEAR. Gear that players either bought on the gold auction house, paid real money for it on the RMAH, for farmed for it. We all know very well the out cry and back lash from the last gear nerf.

What Travis and Archon (the misguided) are advocating is to invalidate the current gear people bought so that Blizz can get a bump in micro transaction revenue from the RMAH. How/why is that? If you only have CM/WW gear or only have Archon gear then and those builds are broken by the devs, then you are going to need new gear just to play without constant player deaths. Player deaths?... hard core mode?... If they break CM builds, welcome back to Blizz/Hydra kiting and I fully expect the rivers to run red with tears. I also, expect to see red is Blizzards account records following said change.

Didn't they nerf APoC?
Edited by BossDogg#1898 on 6/25/2013 10:51 AM PDT
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06/25/2013 10:31 AMPosted by BossDogg
Didn't they nerf APoC?


They nerfed a bug after they reintroduced the proc rates that made it return twice as much as what was listed.

10 = 20
20 = 40
30 = 60

People though it was intentional, so they reworked gear in accordance to the bug(seems reasonable). Then got mad when they reverted it back to normal return rates
Edited by TastySouP#1157 on 6/25/2013 10:40 AM PDT
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I'm optimistic, I think our class is in good hands with Wyatt.
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If you really want to use fun builds.. It might be best to stick to MP6 below..

FUN BUILDS like.. if you don't have all the cash and gears in the world, it won't work in MP10 kind of fun build.

There's a "passive" fun build wherein you just activate them and let them do the killing while you walk around.

Since they're about to hotfix SP's snapshot.. we'll revert back to the usual non-channeling skills.
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06/25/2013 10:37 AMPosted by TastySouP
Didn't they nerf APoC?


They nerfed a bug after they reintroduced the proc rates that made it return twice as much as what was listed.

10 = 20
20 = 40
30 = 60

People though it was intentional, so they reworked gear in accordance to the bug(seems reasonable). Then got mad when they reverted it back to normal return rates

I see someone is paying attention. Good job TSP.

06/24/2013 12:29 PMPosted by METATRON
We got the hardest and swiftest hitting nerfs with no mercy meanwhile everyone else gets a pass.

This I don't agree with. In my last post I did not even finish listing the nerfs. Wiz has been spanked hard. I do not agree with how Blizz treated the DH class either.

No his idea is bad. Blizz should really step up. If something is breaking the game e.g. NT hitting multiple times, ToC super damage...then you nerf it as soon as you can.

They have identified CM etc. as breaking the game, they need to fix it ASAP but they are dragging their feet as they are worried about gamers' reaction. Delay will only lead to more players investing time, Gold and real money into such "exploity" builds which in turn will lead to an even bigger uproar when they nerf it later on.

These "exploity" builds hurt everyone. DHs complain because they see less geared wiz/barbs farm better then them...but Wiz/Barbs (who benefit from the exploits) will also complain as what they see as lack of build diversity. If they fix this, then people will try other cool skills that the wiz/barbs have and build diversity will be less of an issue.

Its like us if they never nerfed NT, Smokescreen or ToC, then DH will also have no build diversity.

What I don't understand is why Blizz is so quick to fix DH and so slow to fix the other classes.

In the end I agree with Travis Day and I kind of agree with Archon. DH is in a good place in terms of different builds being viable and actually being fun to play etc. (I still need a DPS bump to match the monk)...the other classes are OP and that must be addressed via the most direct means possible. Deal with them how we dealt with ss, NT, jagged spikes, gas grenades etc.


I'm going to call the above what is truly is... Trolling for Nerfs. Nerfing is not rebalancing. Making something less efficient doesn't build diversity. If all options are bad, horrid, or suck, then there are no good options. Diversity is not built through offering a plethora of bad options.
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06/25/2013 10:38 AMPosted by RedCell
I'm optimistic, I think our class is in good hands with Wyatt.

No disrespect, but what evidence do you have to support your optimism when the only thing Wyatt and Travis alluded to are nerfs and made false accusations about CM wizards. How about they "fix" mob/elite attack and crowd control spam mechanics so that CM/WW face tank builds are not needed. How about they buff the other spells/runes to make them attractive.

I made an Arcane Torrent spells/rune buff suggestion thread in Jan. 2013 and re-posted it on 6/16. Maybe Wyatt and Travis should objectively consider what the player community has offered, instead of having a one-sided discussion on Archon's live stream. I doubt many players in this forum will actually read my suggestion thread but I'll link it here in case someone decides they want to read --> (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9308441486).
Edited by BossDogg#1898 on 6/25/2013 11:13 AM PDT
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06/25/2013 11:10 AMPosted by BossDogg
I'm optimistic, I think our class is in good hands with Wyatt.

No disrespect, but what evidence do you have to support your optimism when the only thing Wyatt and Travis alluded to are nerfs and made false accusations about CM wizards. How about they "fix" mob/elite attack and crowd control spam mechanics so that CM/WW face tank builds are not needed. How about they buff the other spells/runes to make them attractive.

I made an Arcane Torrent spells/rune buff suggestion thread in Jan. 2013 and re-posted it on 6/16. Maybe Wyatt and Travis should objectively consider what the player community has offered, instead of having a one-sided discussion on Archon's live stream. I doubt many players in this forum will actually read my suggestion thread but I'll link it here in case someone decides they want to read --> (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9308441486).


My statement is based on his past past writings and discussions.

I would like to broach another topic of discussion that being the Big Picture. I'll use an analogy from my time in Iraq. A situation arose where one of our outposts was being attacked, and on one occasion my small four man team was ambushed (they were bad shots), from a section of farmland on the opposite side of the Euphrates River. We requested, my team, to set up a Hide on the other shore for obvious reasons. The commander denied the request.

This of course set my team to grumbling about how this guy was an idiot etc despite the fact that this same officer wrote the brilliant OP order to take Fallujah a year earlier. The only point of view they could see was ours. They weren't considering the fact that that area was an different Company's AO etc. To sum it up, the Battalion Commander was juggling a lot more bits of information and knew a lot more about not just our area, but the entire battlefield.
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06/25/2013 12:00 PMPosted by RedCell

No disrespect, but what evidence do you have to support your optimism when the only thing Wyatt and Travis alluded to are nerfs and made false accusations about CM wizards. How about they "fix" mob/elite attack and crowd control spam mechanics so that CM/WW face tank builds are not needed. How about they buff the other spells/runes to make them attractive.

I made an Arcane Torrent spells/rune buff suggestion thread in Jan. 2013 and re-posted it on 6/16. Maybe Wyatt and Travis should objectively consider what the player community has offered, instead of having a one-sided discussion on Archon's live stream. I doubt many players in this forum will actually read my suggestion thread but I'll link it here in case someone decides they want to read --> (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9308441486).


My statement is based on his past past writings and discussions.

I would like to broach another topic of discussion that being the Big Picture. I'll use an analogy from my time in Iraq. A situation arose where one of our outposts was being attacked, and on one occasion my small four man team was ambushed (they were bad shots), from a section of farmland on the opposite side of the Euphrates River. We requested, my team, to set up a Hide on the other shore for obvious reasons. The commander denied the request.

This of course set my team to grumbling about how this guy was an idiot etc despite the fact that this same officer wrote the brilliant OP order to take Fallujah a year earlier. The only point of view they could see was ours. They weren't considering the fact that that area was an different Company's AO etc. To sum it up, the Battalion Commander was juggling a lot more bits of information and knew a lot more about not just our area, but the entire battlefield.


Excellent post, and shoutouts to a fellow vet.
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@Redcell,
I won't pretend to know/understand the full details of the rules of modern military engagement. However, it sounds like your team was denied the obvious move that would have the greatest chance of the safest outcome for your team.

I would have to read the specifics on what Wyatt said that evoke optimism. Thus far alluding to nerfs and making false accusations doesn't inspire confidence.
Edited by BossDogg#1898 on 6/25/2013 12:42 PM PDT
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@BossDog

I am sorry but what blizzard did to your CMwiz in terms of nerfs is a slap on the wrist that most DH's WISH we could have received especially for our Caltrops skill.

While you guys got your proc reduced as did barbs it still works right? Didn't break the build, and blizzard gave you guys an entire patch notes with a warning about it coming. You know what they did to the entire clatrops build? LITERALLY DESTROYED it, as in DOESN'T work. So many DH's quit and rerolled that day, we didnt get a proc reduction, we got it outright removed and with no warning just came the day the patch came up. Thats just ONE nerf to the ground and by the ground we mean it.

(A lot of the DH community is still very sour over that nerf)

Hell i dont think ANY DH in here would be complaining if blizz would have just given us the same option you guys got with a proc nerf at least it still procs for you guys LOL! You can make it work at a certain gear point, we never can never will period. No amount of gear will raise out proc over 0%

The hilarious part is in that same patch the reasoning was DH's should never tank yet they even said barbs should experiment and be able tp play ranged... what>?! Blizz logic and favoritism for you right there. Either way its coming down to this, either we get buffed or blizz brings you all down with us. We would prefer a buff but it seems like blizz, other classes and even fellow DH's are fighting against being buffed so it looks like the nerf route is going to end up happening.

I sure as hell dont want that lol
Edited by METATRON#1945 on 6/25/2013 12:49 PM PDT
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The last troll video toward DH was Ueberjager's Sever bla bla bla ..

Now we have Archon Wizard stream doing the exact same thing. There is nothing that AW would like more than for us DHers to cause a stir and thus bring more attention to his streaming..

My comment on AW view is this - You can't assume that because a 40 bil gear DH can do roughly the same as 1 bil wiz and say that DPS is roughly the same and it's fine. Think about the HC / and self found players .. and the 200 k dps DHers out there.. it's a no contest.

Archon Wiz's two obvious motives -

1 draw attention to streaming
2 preserve his beloved BROKEN wiz build..

Assuming he has the brains to come up with such an obvious scheme. He definitely doesn't have what it takes to analyze the DH gameplay versus other classes. .
Edited by BlackVenom#1754 on 6/25/2013 1:26 PM PDT
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Preserve the Nyan build~
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06/25/2013 01:34 PMPosted by VocaloidNyan
Preserve the Nyan build~


yea my guess is hes just trolling DH's to say look they are fine everyone they dont need buffs really and CMwiz doesnt need to be nerfed everything is fine and dandy.

While i dont want cm or wotb nerfed they are going to be nerfed if they dont try and get us buffed because its the only other option and sadly after all the trolling from other classes saying we are OP or fine and just whining that i think blizzard has listened and said well DH's are fine! they have the most skill diversity and are thus the best class i guess we should nerf everyone else to the ground like we did them and then all their skills will suck equally that skill choices become irrelevant in most cases outside of niche setups so that all skills are semi-viable lol!!

Blizz mentality --__________--
Edited by METATRON#1945 on 6/25/2013 1:41 PM PDT
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Maybe I'm missing something but why does he need that setup to run MP5 or so like in the video? My setup isn't anywhere near as expensive as that and I can run on MP7 easier than that. I'd be shocked if I could get more than a couple hundred million for mine.

Granted, the DH is in dire need of improvement, but I would rather see someone who actually knows how to play the class making a case for what needs tweaking. I can think of several DHs that if you gave a 40 billion gold budget to that could crush MP10.

His build doesn't take advantage of several synergies that can be achieved for less gold. If nothing else, drop some DPS to boost his Life pool and run Shadow Power with Bloodmoon. I know its not a popular choice but with a large enough starting base, you can easily heal back enough to take on just about anything. Damage reflectors don't even drop my health, I can go from 1/10th health to full in a couple seconds with that skill/rune combo.
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@Metatron:
You are right that Blizz destroyed that build. DH and Wiz both have been nerfed pretty hard. Again you are right in saying the cm/ww build can still be used at certain gear points. However, those certain gear points have the potential of being billions of gold in cost.

A full SnS gear set at 200-250k sheet DPS was potentially 1.5 to 4 billion gold pre-1.0.8 gold dupe fiasco. Full SnS will allow a cm/ww wiz to farm MP10 fast and efficiently and have a very reliable stun lock (assume internet is stable enough). For most of the Wizards who aren't buying gold, using the RMAH, or spending 50% to 75% of the game time flipping items, they do not have full MP10 efficiency. They might do well in MP7/8. I can do rather well on MP7/8 if I switch to my CM/WW gear.

Edit:
So, I'm hoping you are not saying that everyone, including the wizards that had to spend a few hundred million gold pre-1.0.8 on gear from the last 2 to 4 rounds of Wiz nerfs, should be nerfed. I really think Blizzard should be buffing and redesigning the spells/runes to make them more attractive. If they don't want to do that, but are willing to take the hard road, they can redesign mob/elite attack and CC mechanics and redesign spellls/runes. The last option I describe is probably Diablo 4 or 5.
Edited by BossDogg#1898 on 6/25/2013 2:36 PM PDT
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I guess he did acknowledge that in order to compete with exploity builds demon hunters will have to be buffed a lot which i agree...

If we pretend for a minute that this game is about having fun...then dh with skill diversity is more fun than a cm wiz.

For the good of the game blizz should nerf cm wiz type builds to open up more viable build opportunities for the wiz and barb...sure players will complain but they will aldo have more fun in the long run as it just cannot be that fun to keep bashing the keyboard.

They then buff the dh to be about the same as the monk in dps and then we are good...

His workarounds will allow blizz to avoid the nerf but you cannot bring fun back to wiz and barbs without nerfing these op skills that break the game


what do you mean bring back the "fun" to the barb. Have you played a barb since launch and up til now? Before ww the only thing we could do was face tank with incredible low damage and we were so slow, it was not that fun. And then come the ww build, I hve benn playing my barb ever since and its still fun. I think you shuld try the other classes before you say whats fun about them and whats not.
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