Diablo® III

What would you think about a tanking pet?

Well, I think it is generally agreed that DH have a harder time than other classes to effectively apply their damage. We have some problems staying at range and it is difficult to get the full adavantage of steady aim (it can be done though).

To make it easier I was thinking about having a tanking pet. As it is now, most DH's do not run with a pet, and if they do it is usually the bat. What would you think about buffing one of the pets and make it able to tank (to some extent at least)?

I think it would be quite interesting if this is done via items. Make a new class of item affixes that effect pets, like "increase armor of pet by xx" or "has xx chance that enemies will attack pet for xx sec" and of course also "increase damage of pet by xx"

If balanced right this could make for some intersting gearing choices and could make it much easier for the DH to stay at range and aply damage unharassed.
Whats your thoughts?

PS: I don't think pets should evolve to status of followers with their own skills and items and whatnot, this would just add another layer of micromanagement.
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I think the DH was going to be a Ranger at some point in the dev cycle but it got changed and the pets were de-emphasized down into the sad little things we have today.

That said, I wouldn't want to see a Ranger or Wow Hunter again where we have all this focus on so many pet mechanics because DH is a new and interesting concept versus a traditional Ranger concept, although having a pet along is cool.

DH need buffs badly but I'd prefer to see more overall buffs addressing core mechanic and eDPS issues, including pets, rather than so much focus on pets alone.

Diablo isn't a game with a great set of tanking mechanics in the first place so some AoE or soft CC might be more appropriate with the current state of the game.

Personally I'd rather see sentries draw aggo and explode or deal increased damage somehow after drawing aggro, traps just fit my concept of the DH more than pets.

There are several skills that could increase CC or CC immunity or eDPS and pets are just one of those skills.

Wolf pet needs to live and be useful, spider pet the same, and ferrets ...lol. Boar is ok, and bat is a staple skill, but boring. I really like the idea of bat getting an LS buff along with hate gen to reduce reliance on gloom in every build. Wolf could give DH self damage buff and spider a CC maybe...ferrets I have no idea how to improve them, they're only good for bots? Except bots don't DH in the first place, haha. The cooldown should be removed too since they have a Disc cost.
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The pet's defense scale with yours. The Boar and the Spider can soak up mad pain, the Wolf on the other hand is the most fragile. The biggest issue for the pets defensively right now are stacked DoTs, you need to drop Aid Station their way to help deal with that currently.

You gotta understand, that even WD summons die.

EDIT: There's no doubt that some more love needs to be given to the Companions though. Brooding support, Death Toll support, even you marking a target for death means they switch to that target so you can have some control over what they do. I don't know why it's not already like this, I mean, the target you mark for death the companion should go right after that one specifically. Doesn't make sense.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 6/23/2013 9:26 PM PDT
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you need to drop Aid Station their way to help deal with that currently.


Was actually thinking of using this the other night but it's useless since it has a radius. Guardian is going to destroy it in every situation you'd actually use it for instance keeping Wolf up. If it didn't have a radius it might be slightly interesting for its intended purpose.

EDIT: well it does put the HP back for pet but still... Wolf 94 pct vs. spitfire missiles now. What wins...hmm...
Edited by Otaking#1972 on 6/23/2013 9:31 PM PDT
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06/23/2013 09:29 PMPosted by Otaking
you need to drop Aid Station their way to help deal with that currently.


Was actually thinking of using this the other night but it's useless since it has a radius. Guardian is going to destroy it in every situation you'd actually use it for instance keeping Wolf up. If it didn't have a radius it might be slightly interesting for its intended purpose.

EDIT: well it does put the HP back for pet but still... Wolf 94 pct vs. spitfire missiles now. What wins...hmm...


Aid Station is extremely good, even for DHs bro. Guardian Turret does not destroy it in every situation, as GT doesn't restore health.

Pet damage scales with attack speed. i.e 3 APS = Wolf doing 282% weapon damage per sec. You can't compare a companion with a sentry they both have 2 different underlying functions.
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I'd like to see us get some sort of pet buff. The boar buff last patch was ok, not great.
Something cool like a passive to either double the pets, or double thier abilities.
Bump regen on boar tp 600, and AR to 30%, and attacks, etc.

After fighting WDs in pvp with 3 zombie dogs and other pets I'd also like to see
a wolf pack rune, 3-5 wolves, maybe put a time limit on it?

Also wonder about current pet stats. Are the hit points and AR a reflection of the build used?
I've had people say my boar if hard to kill when I'm in tank mode, 1000 AR, 200k HP, 3 mill ehp unbuffed.
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AFAIK the pets will inherit your own stats to some extent. I think the idea to devote one or two passives to pets quite neat, though.

I wouldn't want the WoW hunter 2.0 in D3, that's the reason for my approach with having items that buff pets. In addition with a passive devoted to enhacing pets I think that could make for a nice character build.
Again, I wouldn't like to see pets buffed too much so that every hunter feels force to take out a pet. But what I would like to see is a possibility for a working pet build with some more tools to support it (passives and/or new items). If done right I would feel compelled to level a second hunter and run with a pet build. Right now, pets do not compell me in any way.

I am talking strictly PvE, though.
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All pet should auto - proc activate disc skills.. ie - Wolf - should have a proc rate to cast MDF that you have already selected.
boar should - auto cast gloom for both you and boar with zero disc cost..
Ferrets should keep splitting - lastng 5 seconds when ever they are hit. thus slow down and agro - the mobs.

This is idea though. It way out there but just something I think of when I think about having a useful pet in game. DH doesn't need a watered down version of WD pets.
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All pet should auto - proc activate disc skills.. ie - Wolf - should have a proc rate to cast MDF that you have already selected.
boar should - auto cast gloom for both you and boar with zero disc cost..
Ferrets should keep splitting - lastng 5 seconds when ever they are hit. thus slow down and agro - the mobs.

This is idea though. It way out there but just something I think of when I think about having a useful pet in game. DH doesn't need a watered down version of WD pets.


I'm all for this.

Don't forget Caltrops, and have Sentry count, too - as that used to be a Disc skill.
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The main reason our pets don't work (boar/wolf) compared to WD is that ours don't have that nice shiny shield thingy. (I Always forget names haha). Thus, they have no max dmg taken / hit cap like WD pets do, which is 5% I Believe. Force shield thingy. Now this doesen't apply vs dots (chains/desecrator etc etc) because they tick incredibly fast but for tiny numbers, hence never triggering it.

I like the wolf dmg alot but it's too fragile without that force shield passive. And even with it we'd be worse off because we Always have less AR than WD's for example :D

Until they implement DH pets with the force shield thingy, we're best off using the immune-to-dmg pets such as ferret/bat boo.
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The main reason our pets don't work (boar/wolf) compared to WD is that ours don't have that nice shiny shield thingy. (I Always forget names haha). Thus, they have no max dmg taken / hit cap like WD pets do, which is 5% I Believe. Force shield thingy. Now this doesen't apply vs dots (chains/desecrator etc etc) because they tick incredibly fast but for tiny numbers, hence never triggering it.

I like the wolf dmg alot but it's too fragile without that force shield passive. And even with it we'd be worse off because we Always have less AR than WD's for example :D

Until they implement DH pets with the force shield thingy, we're best off using the immune-to-dmg pets such as ferret/bat boo.


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7029347/7029347#classes <- the WD section

and

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7528695/7528695#demonhunter <- DH section

From 1.0.4 notes:
"Summon Zombie Dogs
Zombie Dog survivability has been increased:
Now also receive 35% of the player’s Maximum Life
The amount of damage a Zombie Dog can take from a single hit is now capped. The cap scales with the player’s level, and is further reduced by the player’s Armor and Resistance."

From 1.0.5 notes:
"Companion
Added a 30-second cooldown
Reduced each Companion's attack cooldown from 1.5/2 seconds to 1 second
Weapon damage increased from 30% to 38%, but they can no longer critically hit
Companion's damage now scales with attack speed
Skill Rune – Wolf Companion
Wolf Companion has been redesigned to be a more durable pet:
Now has comparable durability to one Zombie Dog

New attack: 120-degree Cleave with a 10-yard radius that hits for 94% weapon damage
Skill Rune – Spider Companion
Spider Companion has been redesigned to be a more durable pet:
Has slightly more durability than the Wolf Companion

New attack: 120-degree Cleave with a 10-yard radius that hits for 38% weapon damage and Slows every enemy it hits by 60% for 2 seconds
Skill Rune – Boar Companion
Boar Companion has been redesigned to be a more durable pet:
Has more durability than the Spider Companion

New attack: Single-target attack that hits for 38% weapon damage
Provides (155 @ 60) Life per second and a 15% bonus to all resistances for the Demon Hunter"

You follow?

So, the durability, although unknown at least proves that it's possibly following the same formula. Maybe the Wolf is 35% our max health? 30%? 25%? I don't know, it doesn't say.

From the looks of it health/life is extremely important(for how many hits they can take), followed by armor and res(for how hard those hits are). I'd make a guess that typically, an HC player has 2 to 3 times the amount minimum, of health a softcore DH has.

Softcore DHs effectively ruin the chance of running any other Companions but the Bat, Raven, or Ferret due to the nature of how gearing is in that game mode.

I'll say this again. Companions can and will survive in higher MPs(earlier on, I once thought they couldn't, until I understood why), the Boar being the most durable, but it's based on their master. The biggest problem they face once you have the defense, are DoTs.

As far as I know, they also share our dodge rating, but I hadn't really tested it. I watched monsters wail on them but sometimes I'll see absorb, and other times I won't see anything but my Companion's health didn't move. Maybe it's a % of our dodge, who knows.

They have the "shield" you mention, because if you watch them take hits "absorb" will pop up on blows.

If your companion dies in only a couple of hits, YOU will die in only a couple of hits.
-Gloom sold separately.

Once you have the defense, Life Regen is one of the biggest complements to Dex/Dodge, since that's a defense vs DoTs, this is why Aid Station is also a welcome addition to Companions as it is for us in general. Spit Fire and Guardian, are not the only Sentries in town.

The Companions also seem to have some form of restoration but I have no idea what it's based off of. A natural regen? Our regen? A % of our regen?
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 6/24/2013 1:33 AM PDT
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Aid Station is extremely good, even for DHs bro. Guardian Turret does not destroy it in every situation, as GT doesn't restore health.

Pet damage scales with attack speed. i.e 3 APS = Wolf doing 282% weapon damage per sec. You can't compare a companion with a sentry they both have 2 different underlying functions.


Eh, I gave Aids Station another whirl with Wolf today actually. The problem is the wolf still gets butchered when it runs out of the radius, so it has a lot of downtime and the heal is too small to put it back, and the heal is too small for me at 63k life to effectively change my gameplay at all..except that I can stand next to it less than I could guardian turret. This is only MP8 mind you. I tried running it with custom eng to cover more of the field but final verdict is it is too cumbersome with extra overhead of managing wolf for no real additional DPS.

Granted I don't have 3 APS, I'm 1.96 with enchantress at 400+ RA, 257k or so sheet unbuffed ..no enchantress and 63k hps. I'm not insanely geared but I'm solid and balanced.

I've been thinking of getting a good Calam might try it again at higher aps but I just don't see Wolf becoming that much different. I'd still love to run him and spitfires as just forget about it extra eDPS but he spends too much time in cooldown.

The wolf cleave is very small too ...seems like 5 meter? 7? ...so the 282 percent isn't really that great.

Pets and sentries and everything in D3 have the same underlying function which is eDPS.

Even 63k hp contributes to my eDPS by ensuring that I move less.
Edited by Otaking#1972 on 6/24/2013 2:02 AM PDT
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I'm not going to argue with you.
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You edited your post.

I'll say this, Sentries and Pets do not have the same underlying function.

I'm not going to argue with you though, because you seem to have a one-track mind about this.
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I think the devs are taking into consideration that whatever changes they do to the DH to improve PvE might make it OP for brawling.
While I do think "companion" have space for improvement I would prefer something similar to the WOTB of the barb. Like extending the time for Gloom when you crit or something...
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06/24/2013 01:59 AMPosted by ActionKungfu
I'm not going to argue with you.
No need. You stated the facts and provided your source. The theory is solid.

1) Pets scale with you- DPS/HP/AR/Armor/dodge. If your pet is weak, then so are you.
2) Almost every HC DH runs with a pet, mostly the Boar
3) Sentry and Companion have functions OTHER than just DPS. They function differently with the various stats. Sentry attacks at your attack speed, but your pet attacks at a set rate while scaling damage output with your AS.
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