Diablo® III

Tyreal's Might is awesome. (must read thread)

you could also go the tals direction if you have a zuni string of skulls and tals ammy. you get 3% fire dam increase vs everything (only if you run cob) and if you go the helm route you also gain ehp. check my setup
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^that setup you describe seems very very wrong. have you seen how good zuni poxes can roll? and it' a set piece? no brainer.

comparing your wd to mine, you'll see tyreals outshines you in almost every way and it's not even a HUGE BUDGET set.. lol prob like 6b which prob 25% of the population has access to? probably more?

edit-not the tals armor guy, altho i dunno why you'd want ias unless ur 0dog talking to the guy above him
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 6/26/2013 2:53 PM PDT
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lol prob like 6b which prob 25% of the population has access to? probably more?

I highly doubt that 25% of the population has access to 6 billion gold, given the number of accounts which haven't even finished inferno. More likely to be less than 1%*

*Dual wielding credit card holders can bypass this check.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 6/26/2013 3:06 PM PDT
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^that setup you describe seems very very wrong. have you seen how good zuni poxes can roll? and it' a set piece? no brainer.

comparing your wd to mine, you'll see tyreals outshines you in almost every way and it's not even a HUGE BUDGET set.. lol prob like 6b which prob 25% of the population has access to? probably more?

edit-not the tals armor guy, altho i dunno why you'd want ias unless ur 0dog talking to the guy above him


So you're backtracking from:

- ALL WDs should run Tyrael's

to

- Tyrael's is budget efficient

I just want to be clear about what you've been claiming. From the start, you've been claiming that we all should be running Tyrael's. Are you backing off that claim? Your OP still clearly backs that position.

The way I happen to presently be geared has precisely zero bearing on my thesis that you're a total idiot at theory crafting. Don't fog the issue. Address the claim I made in prior posts, or concede the point. It really is that simple.
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06/26/2013 02:52 PMPosted by lameboi
^that setup you describe seems very very wrong. have you seen how good zuni poxes can roll? and it' a set piece? no brainer.


100% agreed. Pox's are insane. DPS + 70 AR? Yes please.

06/26/2013 02:21 PMPosted by HardCopy
you could also go the tals direction if you have a zuni string of skulls and tals ammy. you get 3% fire dam increase vs everything (only if you run cob) and if you go the helm route you also gain ehp. check my setup


Wow. I am a moron for not thinking of this. I love this. As long as 3% is multiplicative and not additive.

So 500% damage x 1.03 = 515% damage

and not 500% damage + 3% = 503% damage
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06/26/2013 02:52 PMPosted by lameboi
edit-not the tals armor guy, altho i dunno why you'd want ias unless ur 0dog talking to the guy above him


Because IAS is damage, unless you run out of mana.

If you run out of mana, then you need to get more mana regen/max mana or drop IAS.
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ill be honest I read the first 4-5 posts then skipped to the last couple posts..sorry if I'm just repeating what someone has already said haha.

interesting idea, but losing the hp and armor is a huge slap to the face since wd are already pretty limited in what slots they can stack armor (while also having high dps and hp) not to mention losing the set bonus. With a zuni mojo and zuni helm set bonus is still possible, but for someone like me who runs with visage in order to have infinite bat spam, that pretty much makes zuni helm not an option.

I'm still going to buy a cheap TM to test it out cause I like the idea, but I am very doubtful that the ehp and regen hit that it would cause would be worth the extra damage.

and since when is 12% ms so valuable that one would consider innas or lacuni? inna nad lacuni are pretty much the absolute worst ehp items (because of having such good dps and MS) and for wd bats build needing low ias it's kind of a no brainer. I've been running with only the 12 ms on my boots and have never experienced a need for more. Most people can barely keep up with me as it is due to being able to spam spirit walk every few seconds, unless im missing something theres no point in aiming for 24 ms.
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^that setup you describe seems very very wrong. have you seen how good zuni poxes can roll? and it' a set piece? no brainer.

comparing your wd to mine, you'll see tyreals outshines you in almost every way and it's not even a HUGE BUDGET set.. lol prob like 6b which prob 25% of the population has access to? probably more?

edit-not the tals armor guy, altho i dunno why you'd want ias unless ur 0dog talking to the guy above him


So you're backtracking from:

- ALL WDs should run Tyrael's

to

- Tyrael's is budget efficient

I just want to be clear about what you've been claiming. From the start, you've been claiming that we all should be running Tyrael's. Are you backing off that claim? Your OP still clearly backs that position.

The way I happen to presently be geared has precisely zero bearing on my thesis that you're a total idiot at theory crafting. Don't fog the issue. Address the claim I made in prior posts, or concede the point. It really is that simple.


im an idiot at theory crafting?

here's my theory dumbdumb

DPS 217,990.71
DPS vs Elites 239,266.6
DPS vs Demons 278,483.13
DPS vs Elite+Demon 293,854.96
DPS vs Demons 278,483.13

thats my unbuffed numbers running tyreals. so vs certain elites, through my gearing path, my unbuffed dps is 293k. vs all elites regardless of demon my unbuffed dps is 239k. vs half the monsters in the game, my unbufed dps is 278k.

i have no IAS anywhere but witching
i have great mit (89.02%) and 7% elite reduction on top of that.
i have 24% movespeed without adding unnecessary IAS.
i have over 65k hp.

this is truely one of the most balanced ways we have to build our class around, and you're too stuck in marrow land to realize it.

people said "omg you need big budget" i said na you don't and you all know it's true.heck even helped some1 build a set for like 1b or so which is roughly 18 dollars. all very high end items.

my set budget is around 5-6b.

but to reiterate: ppl keep saying "omg you lose so much" but what have i lost ? and i've gained huge DPS gains going this route while maintaining great mit/ehp and 24% movespeed w/o unnecessary IAS.

i did also say skorn users will not see a benefit here, but then that nats guy even showed a crazier way to build around TM to make it work.

i prefer to keep 4 piece zuni tho :D
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^that setup you describe seems very very wrong. have you seen how good zuni poxes can roll? and it' a set piece? no brainer.


100% agreed. Pox's are insane. DPS + 70 AR? Yes please.

you could also go the tals direction if you have a zuni string of skulls and tals ammy. you get 3% fire dam increase vs everything (only if you run cob) and if you go the helm route you also gain ehp. check my setup


Wow. I am a moron for not thinking of this. I love this. As long as 3% is multiplicative and not additive.

So 500% damage x 1.03 = 515% damage

and not 500% damage + 3% = 503% damage

yea tbh it sounds pretty crazy going to have to see what it looks like

edit
more mit/hp w/ tals but tbh
tyreal>all in this setup stuff just dies fast
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 6/26/2013 4:55 PM PDT
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06/26/2013 04:33 PMPosted by lameboi
ppl keep saying "omg you lose so much" but what have i lost ? and i've gained huge DPS gains going this route while maintaining great mit/ehp and 24% movespeed w/o unnecessary IAS.


unless im missing something, how is hitting 24 ms apparently so important to you? I've been running with 12 ms for a long time and never feel the need for more with spirit walk being spammable every few seconds. theres absolutely no reason to use lacuni or inna just for the extra ms imo, so while I'm intrigued by the dps gains form TM and am planning on playing around with it, i dont think that 12 ms really gives it much value when comparing stat gains and losses.
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06/26/2013 05:02 PMPosted by Phal
ppl keep saying "omg you lose so much" but what have i lost ? and i've gained huge DPS gains going this route while maintaining great mit/ehp and 24% movespeed w/o unnecessary IAS.


unless im missing something, how is hitting 24 ms apparently so important to you? I've been running with 12 ms for a long time and never feel the need for more with spirit walk being spammable every few seconds. theres absolutely no reason to use lacuni or inna just for the extra ms imo, so while I'm intrigued by the dps gains form TM and am planning on playing around with it, i dont think that 12 ms really gives it much value when comparing stat gains and losses.

dunno ubers @ 24% > ubers @ 12%

same w/ act 4

i plan for all content usually ^_-
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06/26/2013 05:26 PMPosted by lameboi
dunno ubers @ 24% > ubers @ 12%


Who moves during Ubers? You're doing it wrong.
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dunno ubers @ 24% > ubers @ 12%

same w/ act 4

i plan for all content usually ^_-


i also plan for all content but havnt found a need for more than 12 ms anywhere since I can cast spirit walk every few seconds. having 12 more ms would be nice but i've yet to see any reason to sacrifice any other stat for it.
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06/26/2013 05:29 PMPosted by rockon87
dunno ubers @ 24% > ubers @ 12%


Who moves during Ubers? You're doing it wrong.


i don't use jf passive or pets. you clearly do if you aren't moving. ;)
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Yeah, uh, no. I lose a lot of int and a !@#$ton of vit as well as a big chunk of armor, for what...some extra damage against demons only and useless movespeed? No thanks.
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06/26/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Joey
Yeah, uh, no. I lose a lot of int and a !@#$ton of vit as well as a big chunk of armor, for what...some extra damage against demons only and useless movespeed? No thanks.


doin it wrong
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06/26/2013 08:19 PMPosted by lameboi
Yeah, uh, no. I lose a lot of int and a !@#$ton of vit as well as a big chunk of armor, for what...some extra damage against demons only and useless movespeed? No thanks.


doin it wrong


prioritizing ehp over MS and demon dmg% is not "doing it wrong"

it isn't a coincidence that pretty much every comment says the same thing haha "lose too much ehp, lose set bonus etc" pretty much everyone's issue with using TM
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06/26/2013 08:19 PMPosted by lameboi
doin it wrong


Yes, obviously every single WD that does something different than you is "doin it wrong". Because 10% extra damage to demons only is much better than 250 vit and 200 armor. Obviously.

And using TM would also require me to use a String of Skulls, which would cost me even more gold to get a decent one, and would also cause me to lose that 20 PUR from my frog, which would result in spending even MORE gold to get pickup radius on one of my items....yeah, no thanks. 10% damage to demons is not that important.
Edited by Joey#1757 on 6/27/2013 8:51 AM PDT
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I've played since launch and never made 6B.

it has been about 1 year and my estimate is I've made total about 2B gold tops.
I rarely enter the AH to flip but flipping has accounted for about 600M of my earnings.
another 200M came from picking up gold from the floor.
1.2B from selling off the drops I find.

my current items including gold that I spent on crafting and gems cost me about 1.6B. And already I feel that is very expensive and barely affordable for many players.

breakdown below if you're interested =D

helm = 80M
left ring = 300M
right ring = 10M
chest = 130M
boots = 100M
weapon = 50M
offhand = 1M
4 crafted items = 500M spent
gems = 400M
belt = 40M
pants = 40M

lol prob like 6b which prob 25% of the population has access to? probably more?

I highly doubt that 25% of the population has access to 6 billion gold, given the number of accounts which haven't even finished inferno. More likely to be less than 1%*

*Dual wielding credit card holders can bypass this check.


I agree with MCP. I really doubt such a large population of the players have access to billions.
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Love my TM. Definitely BIS for 1-shotting MP3.

It is possible to use in high-MP with a Doom Hammer, but that requires a mana regen Zuni helm, Templar for Inspire, 0 attack speed items, and Blood Ritual for best results.
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