Diablo® III

Reflect Damage

Is driving me batsh!t crazy... what can i possibly do to overcome this infuriating monster affix?

p.s i dont want to use a skorn
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put a double crit 7% litany on,, take dogs with life link and carry hex/jinx

leech from jinx to face tank the other RD, once your mitigation is fine you will be able to pull through the initial RD phase, then everything is easy.
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hmm good idea, ty sir!
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More Life steal.
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Is driving me batsh!t crazy... what can i possibly do to overcome this infuriating monster affix?

p.s i dont want to use a skorn


Stop DPS'ing into it ?..... they can't reflect damage if you aren't giving them damage to reflect.
Incase you did not notice, reflect damage has a very obvious spell effect when the NPC's are using it.
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Horrify Double Armor bonus.
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06/29/2013 10:13 PMPosted by MCP
Horrify Double Armor bonus.


This is the best answer. It's not practical to try and tank reflect packs with 1 hander. Put simply, you can't get enough mitigation for 3% life steal to work unless you stack massive amounts of armor and AR, or you don't do much damage.

If you want to facetank reflect and not use a Skorn you need to include FA-horrify into your build. The other option is to kite and try to avoid damaging the packs while they are reflecting.

PS. Cast horrify before you enter a battle. You want the armor buff but you don't want monsters running away in fear.
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Horrify Double Armor bonus.


This is the best answer. It's not practical to try and tank reflect packs with 1 hander. Put simply, you can't get enough mitigation for 3% life steal to work unless you stack massive amounts of armor and AR, or you don't do much damage.

If you want to facetank reflect and not use a Skorn you need to include FA-horrify into your build. The other option is to kite and try to avoid damaging the packs while they are reflecting.

PS. Cast horrify before you enter a battle. You want the armor buff but you don't want monsters running away in fear.


I don't use horrify and I have no trouble dealing with RD elites.
Actually, the only RD packs I can't deal very well is blazing guardian. Have to use zombie bears and kite. And of course, Siegebreaker Uber is a pain in the neck, but I usually run plague bats for ubers and have garg and dogs.
Horrify is a good option but not the only option.

As I mentioned before, I use lifelink dogs and jinx. hex one RD and proc from the hexed elite to face tank the other 2-3. Also use spirit walk with jaunt too maximize dps output.

It works great for me.

Life link dogs are very good against RD. And a lot of times, they could save me from being knocked back.
Edited by Neuron#1807 on 6/29/2013 11:42 PM PDT
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Attain more:
Armour
All Resist
Physical Resist
Elite Damage Reduction
Life Steal

Outlast with more:
Vitality
Life%

Use to mitigate:
Jungle Fortitude
Spirit Walk
Soul Harvest
Horrify - Frightening Aspect
Zombie Dogs - Life Link

Use to prevent:
Hex
Mass Confusion
Don't Attack during Reflect

Edit: Was in a rush.
Edited by Surijak#1957 on 6/30/2013 12:19 AM PDT
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06/29/2013 11:20 PMPosted by Trefnwyd
Horrify Double Armor bonus.


This is the best answer. It's not practical to try and tank reflect packs with 1 hander. Put simply, you can't get enough mitigation for 3% life steal to work unless you stack massive amounts of armor and AR, or you don't do much damage.

If you want to facetank reflect and not use a Skorn you need to include FA-horrify into your build. The other option is to kite and try to avoid damaging the packs while they are reflecting.

PS. Cast horrify before you enter a battle. You want the armor buff but you don't want monsters running away in fear.

8 second buff isn't practical for mp10 RD packs IMO

06/29/2013 11:34 PMPosted by Neuron


This is the best answer. It's not practical to try and tank reflect packs with 1 hander. Put simply, you can't get enough mitigation for 3% life steal to work unless you stack massive amounts of armor and AR, or you don't do much damage.

If you want to facetank reflect and not use a Skorn you need to include FA-horrify into your build. The other option is to kite and try to avoid damaging the packs while they are reflecting.

PS. Cast horrify before you enter a battle. You want the armor buff but you don't want monsters running away in fear.


I don't use horrify and I have no trouble dealing with RD elites.
Actually, the only RD packs I can't deal very well is blazing guardian. Have to use zombie bears and kite. And of course, Siegebreaker Uber is a pain in the neck, but I usually run plague bats for ubers and have garg and dogs.
Horrify is a good option but not the only option.

As I mentioned before, I use lifelink dogs and jinx. hex one RD and proc from the hexed elite to face tank the other 2-3. Also use spirit walk with jaunt too maximize dps output.

It works great for me.

Life link dogs are very good against RD. And a lot of times, they could save me from being knocked back.

This is some sound advice right here. I switched spirit vessel to Jungle Fort, bought a nice Litany with 7% reduce dmg to elites and switched out my BBV to life link dogs. I'm now having absolutely zero trouble.
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06/29/2013 11:34 PMPosted by Neuron
I don't use horrify and I have no trouble dealing with RD elites.


The following calcs are based on your current stats and max buffs. They are very rough...Channelling CoB you'd be doing at least 4m dps per second. This is a very conservative estimate of your actual max buffed edps per second.

Reflect packs give back at least 10% damage, so you receive 400k base damage per second.

According to d3up you reduce incoming damage by 89.07%, so you receive 43,720 damage per second. Minus another 10% from life link and you actually receive 39,350 damage per second.

Life steal gives back 3%, reduced by 80% for inferno. So you heal 24,000 life per second.

So you lose 15,350 life per second, per reflecting monster.

Tanking 5 reflecting dervishes can be pretty tough in this situation.

And this isn't even factoring in health link, poison pools, electrified monsters, etc. Nor is it factoring multiplayer buffs. A monk spamming overawe will change the playing field very quickly. There is a reason why reflect is considered by every 1h wd to be the worst of the elite affixes.

I know it's possible to time spirit walk to avoid some reflect damage, but it usually only gives 2 seconds because of honored guest. The numbers just can't stack up as dps increases - it's not feasible (and maybe not even possible) to get high enough mitigation to tank reflect mobs at 300k dps. You have exceptional ehp stats for a pve build, so I believe you when you say you don't have trouble on reflect. However, all your upgrades in the future will increase dps, not mitigation. So reflect will become more and more of an issue as you upgrade.

Reflect packs require either high life steal or extremely high mitigation/ehp. In this regard, the simple options are a Skorn (2h) or FA-horrify (1h). It's possible to stack ehp stats on every item to gain that extra skill slot. But I don't think it's worth it to do all that purely for reflect mobs.

06/30/2013 02:50 AMPosted by Malice
8 second buff isn't practical for mp10 RD packs IMO

Try switching out JF for SV. The reduction in cooldown for SW is awesome, especially paired with GI. I don't know the exact mechanics, but reflect mobs seem to flash on and off every 10 seconds or so. It's not at all hard to SW a few yards, recast horrify and reposition, then start spamming again. This can usually be done within a second, and recasting CoB is necessary anyway to take advantage of new buffs (specifically GF).
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too bad u dont want a skorn :) cause Skorn > !#%%#@@* reflect
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@trefnywd:

First of all, thanks for the calculation.

I want point out that

1) you are missing 7% elite dmg reduction from my litany and RD counts as elite dmg.

2) you are leaving soul harvest/ gruesome feast;s int all res buff out , with that I will be over 91% mitigation, plus additional 7% from elite dmg, which will make me even tankier;

3) I emphasize on using hex/jinx because a) you get life steal from the hexed RD b) you get at least one RD less

4) Your calculation is based on my full CoB, but when I first encounter elites, it takes a short period for CoB to ramp up to max dps. So in the beginning, it does not hurt that much. And after fully ramped up, not all RD will be either still alive or fully on.

4) I use spirit walk jaunt rather than honored guest, as I don't have trouble with mana regen and that 1 extra sec invincibility usually gets work done and usually helps against 2 rounds of freezing balls. Plus 1 extra sec jaunt works very well with hex. Most of the time, you can almost perma hex one of the RD elites. Random hex is not a problem , because if there are white mobs around, then RD won't be an issue since you can leech from them; if there are only elites, then at least 1 elite will be hexed.

I personally did numerous test on Horrify or my current setup and chose life link dogs/hex combo for general better performance. As I mentioned earlier, life link dogs help more than tanking RD, they distract KB mobs too. Believe it or not, in act one those fat !@# KB grotesque don't have much chance knocking me back. Even those elite grotesques don't get to KB me more than 3 times.

The reason I don't like horrify is that it is too time critical, and once you missed the window, it scares elites away, and you have to re channel CoB. and 8 secs of armor boost is not long enough. I sometime suse Horrify/FA with plague bats.

As for monk buff or other situation, all I can say is that RD is the biggest problem for all 1h/mojo setup no matter what your setup is.
Edited by Neuron#1807 on 6/30/2013 8:12 AM PDT
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I echo Neuron's observations. I've said this before so I hope Im not boring people to death. At a certain level of mitigation, most reflect packs are fine, even for 1H. I did the same calcs as you Tre, and came out with net loss in hp, but with SW and the buffs at play, you can outlast the RF packs. The only packs that are problematic are blazing Gs as they make you waste mana more than anything else, and extra health affix elites on inherently high health packs (FoM beasts, A3 tremors etc). And the only reason the latter are problematic is that they make you fight longer than is optimal.

Thing about FA is, it's just so fiddly. Need to activate away from mobs and then run into the fight. Youve already lost a second doing that. High mit if you want to play 1H or go skorn route is the way i see it...just to be controversial :)
Edited by kurOsawa#2301 on 6/30/2013 8:40 AM PDT
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06/29/2013 11:34 PMPosted by Neuron


This is the best answer. It's not practical to try and tank reflect packs with 1 hander. Put simply, you can't get enough mitigation for 3% life steal to work unless you stack massive amounts of armor and AR, or you don't do much damage.

If you want to facetank reflect and not use a Skorn you need to include FA-horrify into your build. The other option is to kite and try to avoid damaging the packs while they are reflecting.

PS. Cast horrify before you enter a battle. You want the armor buff but you don't want monsters running away in fear.


I don't use horrify and I have no trouble dealing with RD elites.
Actually, the only RD packs I can't deal very well is blazing guardian. Have to use zombie bears and kite. And of course, Siegebreaker Uber is a pain in the neck, but I usually run plague bats for ubers and have garg and dogs.
Horrify is a good option but not the only option.

As I mentioned before, I use lifelink dogs and jinx. hex one RD and proc from the hexed elite to face tank the other 2-3. Also use spirit walk with jaunt too maximize dps output.

It works great for me.

Life link dogs are very good against RD. And a lot of times, they could save me from being knocked back.


Same for me. I don't use horriy and I have almost 0 problems with reflect. Blazing guardians with rd r the tough ones for me to. But reguardless if u can drag a white mob into the elite battle rd is not a problem at all(u need life steal). If there is no white mob just start cob until ur health is half gone then hit sw by the time sw is over they will be done relceting and u should be at max health. U should have BBC,mc,or hex up during this and depending on ur dps they should be dead before they reflect again. If the do reflect again just repeat this process. That's what I do and it works great.
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What these guys said. I use 1H and I switch at mp10 (outside act 1) to life link dogs instead of bbv in my profile. Horrify doesnt fit my playstyle and at MP10 the fights last long enough the fear is just simply annoying if i have to use it more than a three or more times.

I also use the enchantress solo and see if she will chicken them, in the meantime i set up the buffs -sh etc,. if she chickens, attack at least the chicken plus the elites. If she doesnt, i hex and use the pig instead at my heal source. If there are a horde of reflect damage, i move back and wait for them to spread out a little because they are distracted by the dogs/maximus demon. I cycle through hex and spirit walk. If they are all reflecting and everything is on cooldown/no hexed monsters, i reposition pick up any health globe and random white around and bring them in. Keeping an eye on the chicken or pig is the most important thing as if that goes you'll be dead in two seconds. Repeat.

I watch my health carefully as I can get a second or two of extra damage before I pop SW if you wait untill your health hits about a third.

Posted by Neuron

This is the best answer. It's not practical to try and tank reflect packs with 1 hander. Put simply, you can't get enough mitigation for 3% life steal to work unless you stack massive amounts of armor and AR, or you don't do much damage.

If you want to facetank reflect and not use a Skorn you need to include FA-horrify into your build. The other option is to kite and try to avoid damaging the packs while they are reflecting.

PS. Cast horrify before you enter a battle. You want the armor buff but you don't want monsters running away in fear.

I don't use horrify and I have no trouble dealing with RD elites.
Actually, the only RD packs I can't deal very well is blazing guardian. Have to use zombie bears and kite. And of course, Siegebreaker Uber is a pain in the neck, but I usually run plague bats for ubers and have garg and dogs.
Horrify is a good option but not the only option.

As I mentioned before, I use lifelink dogs and jinx. hex one RD and proc from the hexed elite to face tank the other 2-3. Also use spirit walk with jaunt too maximize dps output.

It works great for me.

Life link dogs are very good against RD. And a lot of times, they could save me from being knocked back.

Same for me. I don't use horriy and I have almost 0 problems with reflect. Blazing guardians with rd r the tough ones for me to. But reguardless if u can drag a white mob into the elite battle rd is not a problem at all(u need life steal). If there is no white mob just start cob until ur health is half gone then hit sw by the time sw is over they will be done relceting and u should be at max health. U should have BBC,mc,or hex up during this and depending on ur dps they should be dead before they reflect again. If the do reflect again just repeat this process. That's what I do and it works great.
Edited by oubeedada#1573 on 6/30/2013 9:41 AM PDT
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All of the mentioned is pretty good to deal with it with 1h.

There is a guy on Youtube called Anthony Evans I think that explains he has been experimenting between emerald or ruby on weapon. He concluded that with ruby he deals better against Reflect Damage and Plagues and those meanie elites.
He said that emerald is a better option when you have over 50% crit chance.

I know you are using a Ruby on weapon but, I just wanted to throw it here.

Here is the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhJl1ph4As0
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All of the mentioned is pretty good to deal with it with 1h.

There is a guy on Youtube called Anthony Evans I think that explains he has been experimenting between emerald or ruby on weapon. He concluded that with ruby he deals better against Reflect Damage and Plagues and those meanie elites.
He said that emerald is a better option when you have over 50% crit chance.

I know you are using a Ruby on weapon but, I just wanted to throw it here.

Here is the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhJl1ph4As0


I think there was a post discussion Ruby VS emerald

The rule of thumb is to go with the higher dps one in general, no matter your crit chance is.

If they give comparable dps, always go with the ruby since it gives more consistent dps, which means stable life return.

When fighting against RD elites, the last thing you want is a burst of dmg that drains your hp too fast.
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horrify:frightning aspect

ty in advance btw
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Also, one option is to go PB/ZB instead of CoB/ZB. It is easier to rage them and time it not to take the whole reflect at once. CoB kills everything faster for me, but PB keeps me alive more which in turn makes faster runs.
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