Diablo® III

Does anyone understand this logic?

So people can scam, cheat and lie to people all day long. Children can be encouraged to do it. I don't believe you can even report a scam. Yet, if someone reports you for saying any cuss word, you get banned. Even if the chat filter catches it. Protect the kids from seeing a cuss word, but it's ok to give them a sinking feeling in their stomach and make them feel like morons? It's ok to allow kids to think, as long as the other person falls for it, it's ok if I get their stuff for free? No, I wasn't scammed.

Just curious if anyone else understands this.
Edited by ISmkPotatoes#1756 on 7/2/2013 10:09 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Potatoes, did you get banned? I'm shocked. I see your posts on the barb forum all the time, and have no trouble with them.
Reply Quote
MVP
Posts: 8,775
View profile
The problem with scams is it's very hard for blizzard to govern I think. I mean checking the chat log for abuse is a pretty simple thing. Checking the chat log to find what deal was made, then seeing what trade occurred and if someone dced or such or if a scam is actually a scam is a lot harder.

Blizzard have a foolproof system in place so that you don't get scammed(the AH) but still allow trading so that people have the option. I think they don't govern scams in any of there games simply because proving it was a 'legit'(for lack of a better word) scam is difficult, so blizz take a neutral stance on it.
________________________________________________
Twitter: @Narull | ANZ Diablo III MVP
http://www.blizzposts.com - Keep track of all Official Blizzard posts.
There not spelling mistakes, Im speaking 'Ye Old English'
Reply Quote
07/01/2013 05:48 PMPosted by gooball
Potatoes, did you get banned? I'm shocked. I see your posts on the barb forum all the time, and have no trouble with them.


I've gotten banned enough to get my last chance. lol That's why my posts are fine now. I'm still bent out of shape that my censored cuss word was considered Bypassing the filter and being banned for it.

The problem with scams is it's very hard for blizzard to govern I think. I mean checking the chat log for abuse is a pretty simple thing. Checking the chat log to find what deal was made, then seeing what trade occurred and if someone dced or such or if a scam is actually a scam is a lot harder.

Blizzard have a foolproof system in place so that you don't get scammed(the AH) but still allow trading so that people have the option. I think they don't govern scams in any of there games simply because proving it was a 'legit'(for lack of a better word) scam is difficult, so blizz take a neutral stance on it.
________________________________________________
Twitter: @Narull | ANZ Diablo III MVP
http://www.blizzposts.com - Keep track of all Official Blizzard posts.
There not spelling mistakes, Im speaking 'Ye Old English'


What if I were to record the entire transaction? I bet they still wouldn't do anything about it.
Reply Quote
Maybe you need to tone your language down for an international audience? Kiwis and Aussies are mostly not too stressed about swearing, but some words can be more offensive to people in other countries.
Reply Quote
MVP
Posts: 8,775
View profile
Maybe you need to tone your language down for an international audience? Kiwis and Aussies are mostly not too stressed about swearing, but some words can be more offensive to people in other countries.


So this lol, swearing is nothing to us I've found. But talking to people across the world I've insulted people without meaning so many times.
I even had someone go off at me for saying 'Hey Guys' because some were female. But to me it's just a greeting I've called male and females 'guys'

Potatoes: The thing is if they did it for you, they would have to do it for everyone and not everyone would record it.
________________________________________________
Twitter: @Narull | ANZ Diablo III MVP
http://www.blizzposts.com - Keep track of all Official Blizzard posts.
There not spelling mistakes, Im speaking 'Ye Old English'
Reply Quote
They don't need to do it for everyone. If there are conditions and conditions aren't met, they don't do it.
Reply Quote

The problem with scams is it's very hard for blizzard to govern I think.

Not govern. Prove.

Scam is subjective. Swearing isnt subjective. If you said "FiretrUCK", then you said FiretrUCK. It's undeniable.

But, what is the definition of a scam in diablo?

Case 1 - If I opened a trade window and put up 1bill for your item, the took off 1 zero. I'd just argue that we always agreed to 100mill and not 1bill.

Case 2 - If I befriended you and borrowed an item, and decided not to give it back, then I'd argue that you gifted it to me.

I've seen both these cases all too much. Players call them scams....but who defines what a scam really is?
Edited by Ryoka#1646 on 7/1/2013 8:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote
If I made a video and I stated, we are trading X item for X amount of gold, do you agree? They say yes, I get less than what I asked for, would they be liable or would I just eat it? (just going to say this now, I bet I'd eat it. Blizzard has the most backwards rules)
Reply Quote
You'd eat it, but I'm sorry to say Blizzard could easily make it foolproof by having a double accept, like every single other game I've played where online trade occurs outside of an Auction house. It was and remains a very poor design feature which should be easy to correct.

Simply put:

Open trade window
Place items in trade window
Add gold
Hit accept
Trade Window and gold bar are now locked
Both players can now review the trade, if things aren't upto scratch you can cancel
If they are you click "Confirm Trade"

Both players need to click confirm trade, if one player clicks cancel then both players need to hit Accept again.

And to be perfectly honest since Gold has a commodities Value (of between 25 and 30 cents) then Blizzard really should have a system of review in place since Blizzard gold = currency. Just like any other online bank.
Reply Quote
You could basically argue that people are stealing real money from people when they scam them, yet they condone it. Just like you said, a Runescape type trade.
Reply Quote
Runescape or Neverwinter Nights or any other myriad of games with a system of review with regards to player to player trade. It really should be posted somewhere in general, it's such an easy fix, and seriously if you get "Scammed" with a functional review system in place, then I literally have zero sympathy. Even if Blizzard can't make a UI modification they can make it necessary for players to hit accept twice to prevent scamming.
Edited by MoshingChris#1366 on 7/2/2013 6:13 AM PDT
Reply Quote
All,

Below is a link regarding some further information in relation to scams for MMORG's, including Diablo 3. As I am working with the ACCC to expand their Scamwatch website, I can tell you that several Diablo 3 scams are in constant use.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9233943437

You can report your scam via raising a ticket to blizzard, and I recommend you fraps/record all trades for supporting evidence which will assist Blizzard. We (the ACCC and myself) have collected examples from youtube (including Diablo 3) whereby scammers have been caught out, admitted to the scam, and have not had their accounts banned by Blizzard. We aim to publically list these scammers and state the current activity of their accounts, and formal replies from Companies such as Blizzard on the Scamwatch website.

What is a scam? Well, the definition I work off comes from the Australian Commonwealth Fraud Control Guidelines. It is.

“Dishonestly obtaining a benefit, or causing a loss, by deception or other means.”

In the event you are scammed and are not satisfied regarding the outcome, please report the issue via the scamwatch website. Also, report it even if the issue is resolved as we are after as much data as possible, in particular the amount the item was worth (after converting the price of gold to real money). This is important as the bulk of my work with the ACCC is aimed at convincing their senior management that "virtual items" exist and hold value. The EF sold late last year for roughly $15,000 Euro certainly got their attention.

You also have the right to request a refund of the game from your supplier should you feel it is warranted. This is clearly stated in the ACL (Australian Consumer Law) which was passed as legislation during January last year. This means that any supplier of a good or service cannot refuse a refund in Australia (in fact, it is illegal for them to refuse a refund). In most cases this will not be blizzard, but the store you purchased the game from. Should you be the victim of a scam, and are not satisfied with blizzards action, you certainly have the right to request a refund. For more information about the ACL, check the ACCC website, its also got a couple of youtube videos which summarise it.

Ryoka, in answer to your two scenarios, Case 1 = Scam, Case 2 = possible scam, however difficult to prove. In fact, Case 1 has numerous youtube examples of which, we will be showing on the scamwatch website as examples. Particularly where the fraudster has admitted to the scam.

In relation to an aspect of scamming which regularly pops up in Diablo 3 and other MMORG gaming forums along the lines of...is it really illegal....you deserved it..... its not really a scam........etc etc.
Australian law is quite clear in relation to fraud. Any activity of fraud, including a scam, is illegal. With relation to MMORGs, scams are not just limited to the odd axe etc in D3, more elaborate ones include gaining your confidence, getting you to select a link on Skype (cause these guys are ok, thought it would be easier to use voice comms, and you have been farming with them for a while) and ends with you having your bank account cleaned out and personal information stolen.
Organistations including Blizzard would do well to take fraud prevention advice from professionals in this area such as myself and the ACCC by posting examples of current D3 scams on their homepage. This is the most effective method organistaions use today by promoting awareness of fraud to potential victims which prevents and deters fraud/scams.

I hope this information has been of some assistance.

Regards
CC123
Reply Quote
Potatoes – According to what you described, one could argue that he wanted to pay you what was agreed to, but legitimately accidentally left out a zero. But by the time he realised, his greed kicked in and he didn’t want to make up the difference. This is a civil matter at best.

An irrefutable scam (in Blizzard’s eyes) would be if someone created a fake Blizzard site (like d1ablo3.com) and sold gear as a representative of Blizz. Then Blizz will step in.

Don’t get me wrong, I sympathize for what happened to you. But it’s the same reason why police don’t get involved if your best friend slept with you girlfriend or if he borrowed $100 and never gave it back. Civil matters are civil matters.
Reply Quote
Potatoes

In relation to your description of what happened, that is certainly a scam. However, screen shots/fraps of the scam occuring would help Blizzard agree and take action accordingly.

Otherwise, Ive listed other options in my earlier post which you can consider.

Regards
CC123
Reply Quote
I never said I was scammed. lol
Reply Quote
Potatoes.

My earlier post was in reference to this post of yours.

"If I made a video and I stated, we are trading X item for X amount of gold, do you agree? They say yes, I get less than what I asked for, would they be liable or would I just eat it? (just going to say this now, I bet I'd eat it. Blizzard has the most backwards rules)"

If you were not scammed, exactly what is the point of your first and subsequent posts? Are you likening fraud/scams to being caught for swearing in game chat? If so, I dont really think its a good comparison as fraud/scamming in Australia is illegal, breaking a games rules/policy in relation to language is another issue.

As I said in my earlier post, if you are unable to resolve what you believe to be an unfair decision by Blizzard, you have the right to a refund from the supplier under the ACL (all terms and conditions such as no refund no litigation action etc etc are invalid in Australia) as consumers in Australia have very clearly defined rights.
Seeing as you are now banned, you might as well get your money back. I recenly returned a second verson of D3, 12 months old and never used to the supplier, they werent happy and initially refused the refund. However after logging it as an issue with my states ACL rep, it was quickly resolved and I got a refund. More information can be found on the ACCC website.

Regards
CC123
Reply Quote
What I am saying is, the logic of the game's owners.

You can get banned for saying a cuss word, even if the filter turns it into something you cannot understand. Yet, if you were to steal gold/money/items from people, they could care less. Basically encouraging people without actually saying it that it's ok to steal but it's not ok to listen to, for lack of a better term, a censored version of a television show, essentially.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]