Diablo® III

Skill points in passive skills?

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Here's an idea for the expansion: skill points. Now you probably think I'm beating a dead horse, and yes I am, I am beating this dead game. This game needs customization as seen in D2. I have been playing D2 for weeks (I played when I was very young, so this is basically the first time) and I love the skill tree/points.

D3 needs some type of system for customization. Allow players to permanently* put skills points in passive skills. For example, putting skill points zombie handler on the WD would buff the zombie dogs and the gargantuan and make more of them. These passive skill points would provide simple buffs to characters and/or important synergies to active skills, depending on the skill. Certain gear slots could also have "+2 to X passive skill" to help itemization.

*Now I know a lot of people don't like something permanent, but simply implement a skill reset system as a quest reward, as seen in D2.

Quest rewards should also be expansion, but that's another matter entirely. Good idea?
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Even if they gave you 5 skills points and you could only put up to 2 in a skill, it would be an improvement. In current build I would put 2 in archon, 2 in CM and 1 in magic weapon maybe.

For kiting builds or meteor build or whatever, there would be a lot of diversity.
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Stats/Skills point allocation is what made the original 2 Diablo games so successful and JW failed to realize it. When a barb do over 1M dmg with WW, it is because he has 20pts on the WW skill and every points on STR. It's hard to call for a nerf to WW citing it's OP. The same could be use for all skills.

Points allocation allow the devs to focus less on balancing classes and more on game play, itemization and other aspect.

The could even add a new NPC that could reset your points allocation for a fee.

Please re-instate more features that worked on the Diablo Series and improve the new ones.
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Skillpoints are good, but it's time for change. I wish they'd go back to the runes dropping as items and not unlockables. Have different tiers of each rune, and put a cap at a max cumulative rune. eg. 10 tiers for each rune. You can't have each rune at lvl 10. You have 6 skills, thus making a total possible rune level of 60, but place the cap at 25.

Either way, you're still just going to use the same builds as if you are using skillpoints - except they aren't permanent. The problem doesn't lie with skillpoints - its a deeper more fundamental problem that is not that easy to pinpoint.
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Either way, you're still just going to use the same builds as if you are using skillpoints - except they aren't permanent. The problem doesn't lie with skillpoints - its a deeper more fundamental problem that is not that easy to pinpoint.

True, but that was also the case in D2. Some skills were simply better for farming. BUT skill points really helped with personalization and customization. You could actually see your character and skills improve, even if your gear did not.

07/03/2013 09:04 AMPosted by ChangBooster
Even if they gave you 5 skills points and you could only put up to 2 in a skill, it would be an improvement. In current build I would put 2 in archon, 2 in CM and 1 in magic weapon maybe.

Agree totally
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07/03/2013 09:38 AMPosted by TheFunGun21
Either way, you're still just going to use the same builds as if you are using skillpoints - except they aren't permanent. The problem doesn't lie with skillpoints - its a deeper more fundamental problem that is not that easy to pinpoint.

True, but that was also the case in D2. Some skills were simply better for farming. BUT skill points really helped with personalization and customization. You could actually see your character and skills improve, even if your gear did not.

07/03/2013 09:04 AMPosted by ChangBooster
Even if they gave you 5 skills points and you could only put up to 2 in a skill, it would be an improvement. In current build I would put 2 in archon, 2 in CM and 1 in magic weapon maybe.

Agree totally


I do not agree. You think you're customizing your character, but its just an illusion. You'll just further destroy the viability of other builds by improving the current "best" builds. IOW you're buffing the viable builds further, leaving the other builds still inefficient.

In Diablo II, it wasn't really about customization - it was about efficiently buffing your character for that one skill that you want to spam for eternity.

I like the idea of skillpoints, but see no way how to implement this system to improve the game - it will just give the illusion of variety. That illusion is already there - just make a build that noone wants to make, because it is inefficient.
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07/03/2013 09:47 AMPosted by pusimusidu
illusion

You could argue this whole game is an illusion, or that even life is an illusion (sorry for the philosophy). Whether or not it was an illusion, skill points were still fun (for me at least). As I mentioned I just picked up D2 and yes, I am dumping in only a few skills. But my god it's fun!

So yes it might be an illusion, but what difference does it make?
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Definitely agree with pusimusidu. All this would do would give you the illusion of customization. It wouldn't change anything at all. I'd rather they concentrate on making more useful stats and more diverse items. The majority hate being locked into character progression. It is the #1 thing complained about on the PoE forums and people complained about it so much in D2 that they added respecs and so much in WoW that they added multiple specs you could swap back and forth from. Making me reroll to play a character a different way isn't terribly fun because leveling isn't terribly fun in the first place.
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07/03/2013 10:02 AMPosted by Ender
All this would do would give you the illusion of customization.


This phrase seems to be thrown around quite a bit. I believe it to be a false truth, while for efficiency's sake stat points or a similar system may be obsolete, it isn't the case for fun engaging gameplay.

Without the feature of stat allocation or skill trees there isn't much to invest in with your character. RPG itself is an investment in the character or role you choose to play. What we currently have is merely a shell, and as such you detach yourself, consciously or unconsciously from the character. When you are not invested, you do not become immersed, when you are not immersed within the game's world you do not enjoy the game.

Again, this would all be a useless argument when it comes to pure efficiency, games should never be designed around complete efficiency (unless of course for educational purposes). Its the developers job to create a fun, engaging experience first and foremost. It is the player's (the ones who choose to do so) job to sift through everything to find the most efficient way to play the game; This in and of itself is a viable and healthy mechanic for an aRPG.

Blizzard has developed the game (post release) around the idea of efficiency as that is what the community clamored for initially, and yet people still don't enjoy the game. It's simply too concise and efficient, its a rigid design that has little room for player creativity. There needs to be a flexibility so players can have the freedom to express their creativity.

Sure, there are other aspects that have fallen short, aesthetics being one, but making items more diverse will only extend the game's life a little bit longer. There needs to be character building outside of items and the various stats they can roll. This can easily be achieved through the following steps:

-Paragon Levels now let you apply points into stats and skills.

-Redesigned Skill Rune System:

As I previously suggested here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9377489179#17
Should they implement an iteration of their original rune system enhancing current runes through dropped items that you may socket, it allows for flexibility of builds and lets the player creatively invest in his/her character.

Other stuff
-Paragon milestone unlocks:
ex: Reaching paragon level 50 unlocks a secondary skill set to switch to, allowing you to have 12 abilities, 6 passives total with a short cooldown between swaps.

You may ask, why would there be a need for stat point allocation when everyone would dump them into their main stat and / or vitality? That is where the new rune system comes in, while you also gain points for skills to make them viable, you will have items that drop that can alter these runes in various ways.
---
Example:

-Iron Bola-
Increases the damage of your imminent doom bola shot by 150% of your armor.
---

What this means is that you can now (or wait until you find another drop that alters a rune that gives bonuses based on your armor) stack gear with strength and + armor, or place your stat points into strength to squeeze as much armor out as possible. This could also be possible with intelligence and all resist or any other various current and future stats (If enemy is bleeding, chance for additional wounds to rupture per hit rune variant? Or perhaps bleeding target's blood catches on fire which may spread to other enemies).

Less rigid gameplay and an emphasis on rewarding player creativity is what makes a game enjoyable and gives high replay value. There is and always will be the most efficient build that people will strive for, sure. The hunt for that build doesn't have to be unenjoyable though.
Edited by MammthWffle#1759 on 7/3/2013 11:04 AM PDT
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