Diablo® III

Buff Resource Generators

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Currently there is a huge gap between the eDPS that different builds can attain. It seems to me that a major factor in this is the ability to spam nukes more and the weaker resource generators less or not at all. This is seen as the higher eDPS builds seem to be 'infinite' builds (infinite wrath or infinite archon or infinite RF or infinite bats or infinite bells or infinite whatever). And the biggest difference is the other builds cannot maintain the resources needed for continued spamming so you have to use the weaker generators. So how do you fix the problem?

The simple solution would seem to be to increase the damage of the generators thus maintaining your eDPS when you are forced to use them. But if they did that kind of damage then what would be the point of not using them? If they cost no resources and actually generated resources while maintaining the high eDPS why would you use anything else? So no this is not the solution.

Instead what if using the resource generators not only generated resources to use the nukes but also increased the effectiveness of those nukes? This way while your dps goes down while using the generators your overall eDPS catches back up when you use the nukes. It could be done in a variety of ways for the variety of resource generators. For example lets say that hungering arrow gives you a crit chance buff while entangling gave you an attack speed buff and bolas gave you a plain damage buff and grenades gave you a crit damage buff. And the more you used the generator the longer the buff lasts.

Essentially what this would do is even out the builds and make it so that the resource generators arent just seen as hindrances to eDPS. So someone could have a build that just spams infinite RF but someone else could have a build that cycles between bursts of cluster arrows and bolas and they would be about on par with each other in terms of eDPS. But at the same time the generators by themselves are not buffed to the point that you can just spam them instead of the nukes.

Bottom line is that the generators need a buff. They are so weak that most high eDPS builds are all about finding ways not to have to use them. Something needs to be done to bring their use back into the mainstream. Otherwise if the only effective builds are those that dont use them then you may as well get rid of them and the need for resources altogether.

One thing of note is that I think using the generators should kick you out of forms such as wrath or archon. This is not a problem with channeled spells like RF or bats as you have to stop to use a generator. But with forms you would be able to not only have infinite wrath but be generating the buff while still in the form for both benefits infinitely.
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This is a good idea.

They already have this for some generators. My main is a barb so I can show some examples.

Frenzy, stacks attack speed upto 5 times and can also stack upto 20% damage increase.

Bash has the rune where you can stack +8% up to three stacks.

So basically, attack with generators 3/5 times then spam heavy damage, problem right now though, like you mentioned, is that the buff they give does not last long enough to bring eDPS to an on par level of WW/Sprint.

If done correctly it would bring about some interesting builds.
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1+
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Duck,
This is already doable with the Wiz class. Use the Shock Pulse/Living Lightning (spell/rune), the Arcane Dynamo passive, and any Wizard non-signature damage spell (spender or generator). Spam Living Lightning to get a full 5 stack of Arcane Dynamo then consume the stack for a damage buff to any non-signature spell.

Edit:
06/27/2013 06:55 PMPosted by DuckOfDeath
One thing of note is that I think using the generators should kick you out of forms such as wrath or archon. This is not a problem with channeled spells like RF or bats as you have to stop to use a generator. But with forms you would be able to not only have infinite wrath but be generating the buff while still in the form for both benefits infinitely.

This shows a lack of understanding of the Wiz class. Archon uses special archon mode only spells. They do NOT require arcane power (resources). This is not a design flaw. The above quote is written to be nerfs and together with the rest of your post amounts to a request for a nerfs. Please stop. Your other examples involving a Demon Hunter might make sense for that class, but not for all classes.

Take a look at my proposed design changes to the Wizard Arcane Torrent spell/runes:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9308441486
Edited by BossDogg#1898 on 7/2/2013 5:52 PM PDT
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I know it is available to some generators with some classes. Its actually where I got the idea from and Coolfool also mentions some of the barb ones as well. I am just pointing it out as a solution for more generators and I think they still need a buff. Both I and Coolfool mention how you still have to spam them like 5 times to get a very short buff. In fact your example has you spamming the generator 5 times to get a one attack buff. That is not really the kind of ratio I am looking for. Maybe more like spam it 5 times to buff your nonsig spell 5 times. Like I said people want to use their nukes at least as much or more than their generators.

Also my mention of the archon is not a lack of understanding of the skill. Yes they are special spells used right now. But if this synergy between generators and nukes were to be implemented it could affect other spells. Just pointing out that you should not be able to stay in a buffed mode and continue to add more buffs through my proposed system. And I do not believe what I wrote is a request for nerfs. In fact I believe my statement reflects that I am fine with being able to maintain infinite archon or wrath. The proposal is to have a choice between those infinite forms and buffing not being in those infinite forms and using other builds to be on par with them. The only caveat I mention is that you should not get both benefits at the same time as that would defeat the purpose and put those infinite forms ahead of not using them again.
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Before you get hung up over the skills themselves, don't forget what the OP said about resource regeneration. That's one of the biggest problems with skill diversity in the first place, and definitely can be fixed with an itemization patch. I can say that for monks TC and cyclone builds are popular primarily because the amount of resources you need to maintain is really low, but there's plenty to be said for high spirit regen/bell builds that are possible. Also, dh's can't maintain high eDPS in higher MP levels without constant hatred.

So how do you fix the problem OP?

Resources in D2 were really negligible because you had full rejuvenation potions. Since we don't have cool potions like that to help with this we have one of three options for resources: Skills, gear, or forego resources altogether (e.g. Archon builds, TC/cyclone, etc.). I don't think they'll bring potions back, but they could definitely double the resource numbers on all the affixes for new gear, as well as balance the some of the skills you mentioned.
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I agree that the three options you mention are the most likely outcomes. I mainly concentrated on improving the skills so as to make the skills useful and used in more builds to increase build diversity.

The thing with improving resource generation through gear is that the gear basically replaces the need for the generator skills. Thus making those skills irrelevant and subsequently reducing build diversity. You see it with the CM builds that use AP regen through procs from gear. They dont use generator skills at all. If resource generation is to be improved through gear I would say it would have to be by buffing the resource generating skills. Perhaps a gear affix that increases the amount of resources generated by generator skills. I dont think that affixes that reduce the resource cost of skills are good as they are used to bypass the need for generators. A good example of this is the 0 cost chakram builds. Or perhaps instead of the buffs I mention for the skill being built into the skill it gets added through an affix like +X damage buff for X seconds after using a generator skill (might actually be easier added as an affix than changing the skills).

For the same reasons I do not think foregoing resources altogether is the solution. While builds that do forego resources have their place in build diversity I dont think all builds should go that route. Thus buffs to improve the builds that use generator skills are needed to keep them on par with the builds that forego resources.
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Why don't you just get gear that increases your resource regeneration.
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07/03/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Socrates
Why don't you just get gear that increases your resource regeneration.


The current gear that buff resource generation do not promote the use of resource generating skills. Instead they replace the need for them and thus reduce the amount of useful skills which in turn reduces build diversity. My point is to make more skills more useful and effective to promote different builds instead of everyone just using the ones they can spam with little to no regard about resource generation. By increasing the effectiveness of resource generators not only do you increase their use but you could increase the use of the resource spenders that are ignored because they rely on resource generation that cant be bypassed.
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07/03/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Socrates
Why don't you just get gear that increases your resource regeneration.


Because not all classes have such a thing? Because the resource regen from gear sucks for certain classes? Spirit Regen from gear is awful, it's entirely too low to make a difference except when Tempest Rushing. At best 2.X Spirit Regen is a drop in the bucket when you have 150 Spirit, let alone if you are using Exalted Soul and have 250 Spirit.
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I think it would be great if blizzard took an all of the above approach to making regen better in their itemization patch. Resource affixes on gear could be higher, and would be nice on a couple more gear slots (like shoulders and belts). Generator skills could definitely use a DPS buff in many cases, but some kind of synergy (beyond just damage) would make things interesting.

I think they've already considered adding some potions to the game, although I hope they don't take the shrines in your pocket approach. I actually thought the potion system in D2 worked great, but I realize they can't just cut and paste that system in.
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07/03/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Toprem
Why don't you just get gear that increases your resource regeneration.


Because not all classes have such a thing? Because the resource regen from gear sucks for certain classes? Spirit Regen from gear is awful, it's entirely too low to make a difference except when Tempest Rushing. At best 2.X Spirit Regen is a drop in the bucket when you have 150 Spirit, let alone if you are using Exalted Soul and have 250 Spirit.


I understand what you mean but monks do an ungodly amount of burst damage. I've seen a monk in a 4 player game kill a gob by himself with 300k dps or so as I was getting to the gob.
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